NeonGameWave's forum posts

#1 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow

I saw your response and I cannot wait to respond! It is excellent as well as impressive, the structure in which the points, arguments and information are structured is super-strong!

But I can`t at the moment unfortunately because my computer really has been causing quite a stir of problems for me. I have to get the opportunity when I`m at school if I am to truly access what I need to, and if I am to keep focus without any interruptions. My posts were supposed to be a lot longer and a lot more layered but its because of these reasons that I haven`t been able to perform up to standard in regards to the way that I wish I could.

However, I have done an extreme amount of research and I played KH 1 and DMC 4 just recently today back to back to one another in comparison all I can say is that a lot of what you have been saying about Sora overall has been off or overestimated beyond even Sora`s overall opus, a lot of it has been unmistakably unfactual. Once I respond, I am going to be addressing durability versus durability which actually is strongly in Dante`s favor as also his enemies are far greater (beaten all of Sora`s bossess replayed even his strongest who we both know would be Ansem and none of them including Ansem in feats are even comparable to that of Mundus, NONE) and I got the reconfirmation with the playing experience. I`m playing more of the earlier games for Sora so I can see his foundation in which I will be able to gauge it to the point of his maximum in Kingdom Hearts 2. I`ve played KH 2 many more times and beaten it many more times, so it makes sense to start off with the starting points where it all began. Good times and unforgettable memories :) I plan on playing all the other games for both Sora and Dante respectively, but even thus far, Sora isn`t as close as you are making him out to be and many of his boss fights as well as cutscenes have strong and I mean heavy-strong connotations as well as contexts behind them.

Prepare yourself, I am going to show why Dante is Sora`s superior and Sora is a character I can personally relate to as much as I can in the comparison to Dante (also I grew up more with Sora`s character, KH 1 was one of my first PS2 games but DMC came shortly after and it easily rivaled it) so this will be interesting once I give the official breakdown from durability to striking power and then finally speed (which there are more feats for Dante and there is more that needs to be mentioned which I couldn`t cover in my original posts). I`m excited and my brain has processed a lot of the information, I have ALOT to say its going to be a long day but certainly worth the wait!

#2 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@cerberus369616

I agree with you and I think what makes your point even stronger is the fact that in both KH 1 as well as KH 2, and even Dream Drop Distance. Xemnas` very own signature sabers are not even called lightsabers they are called ethereal blades furthering the fact that he draws and conjures energy of that type or classification.

It doesn`t matter when I think about it cause I`m pondering the credibility of Sora`s feat even if @jmarshmallow is right which I can understand from his perspective as I have debated for Sora many times and referred to the same feats myself but as I always say, questionability is the key to possibility, probability and then finality. I question the credibility of the feat now. Also Sora has many factors against him that @jmarshmallow may have overlooked.

1. Dante has in-game AND in-custscene feats of achieving as well as surpassing lightspeed within combat reaction. He has deflected/reflected light beams, laser beams and pure light.

He has a lightspeed reaction and combat feat from the following:

Mundus (reflected his light laser beam and he reacted to them AGAIN in the canon novel DMC Volume 2 he fought an alternative dimension Mundus who was just as powerful if not more-so and he stomped him)

Arius (outraced his light attack)

Damned Chessman (who actually fire lasers, it says in-game and their lasers possess the same exact characteristics such as the signature sound which Xemnas could be lacking if we are to get technical)

Beowulf (who fires light-feathers that travel and move in multi-directional fashion, Beowulf is also a complete light-being when possessing the Light-Gauntlets)

2. Dante not only has more feats but the quality is better even if Sora has only ONE FEAT that is made to be the standard, the quality of them being in-cutscene is a stronger case although Sora did so in a QTE, Dante`s consistency is much better and believable.

3. Dante can also Teleport. Sora has shown teleportation but only in-game and not consistently only in commands also its not a standard ability like Glide even if I`m wrong, Dante`s teleportation is still more consistent and thus has a stronger case made for it for not only the quantity of feats but also quality. Teleportation >>>>MFTL (if true), I can`t see how this can be argued and what makes it worse is that Vergil also has this, Cloud will die instantly and Vergil can definitely match Sora since he`s consistently used it with his Dark Slayer style in combat against Dante in all of their fights. Also its further confirmed by the official manuals so the credibility is consistent.

4. Even if Jmarshamllow is right, Sora only showcased not only one feat in one moment of a command but the biggest detractor here is the simple fact that of how he did it. The way in which he was moving is suspicious because he only reacted in a stationary format he hasn`t showcased the fluent, fluid and flow heavy coordination of how Dante moves his muscles. Dante has the better muscle memory which deals with reaction and body movement, he moves his limbs in a quicker fashion and he can also DISAPPEAR literally... Sora has nothing on that, MTFL or not and Sora`s enemies have never shown something like that when it just comes to pure speed mechanics... Its more of reflex than anything and I don`t see how that helps when your opponent can move purely fast in speed his movement speed is as good as his combat and reflex speed also Dante has the better perception speed, his eye coordination is much greater and he even sees things as if they are slowing down another thing is Dante has faced enemies who can control time the best and prime example being Geryon a 2000 year old demon who manipulates time and perception, Dante could still move as well as best this demon even when under its effects. Dante in counting even has more lightning reactionary feats than Sora does but I don`t think its necessary to go into that territory too much.

Also as a side-note: I would like to say Jafar, Oogie Boogie, Ursula and etcetera showed incompetence with their abilities. Jafar especially he was acting all-that and he was underestimating Sora he never indicated that he went full on out this is compatibly consistent with his movie characteristics as well. Also all Sora did was use his weak points against him which is extremely easy to do considering he had the magic carpet to help him navigate. Dante`s fight with Mundus was much more hardcore and diverse, Mundus showed more and he was much more impressive on a COMBAT LEVEL another thing is Sora can`t use magic it says in the OP so he can`t heal himself which will be a MASSIVE negative and it also says Dante will not be holding back. Most of Dante`s feats are accomplished when he`s playing around which is evident especially in DMC 1, 4 and the Animation. A no-holding back Dante has the potential to wreck when I think about it closely and intricately. Those rules in my opinion are being overlooked, and are not being valued or considered as important factors in this fight.

#3 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow said:

@neongamewave:

And so it begins!

Most definitely :) I kind of had to rush yesterday cause I was occupied but now I have all the time available so my points will be more punctually perfected and potently powerful!

I agree, he isn`t but he doesn`t quite match Dante`s experience,

Experience can only do so much, Sora has made up for his lack of experience, as evident by his defeat of the Lingering Will.

While that is true it doesn`t change the matter of the fact of what I have stated, Dante is more experienced and he has had a greater length of time to improvise as well as improve on his skill. Sora defeating the Lingering Will is an undeniable feat, however Dante has faced much more experienced warriors over time and has accumulated knowledge at a much more strongly scaled rate. You may not agree but its shown in his history of feats he`s faced more pure-zealous swordsman.

style, uniqueness and swordsmanship which looks also more awesome because of his showmanship.

It seems here like you're under the impression that flashy fighting is somehow superior?

I was only making a point about how awesome Dante does it, I wasn`t actually suggesting that it was apart of the substance of his cemented feats. He just makes it look effortless, seamless and so ridiculous that`s all I`m saying.

Sora and his Keyblade are just as unique as Dante, just because his style isn't all over the place like Dante's doesn't make it any less potent.

I agree but Sora can`t take that away from him either :)

I remember that feat and I still remember playing it, it was awesome but I don`t see how Dante wouldn`t be able to replicate that and clear them faster.

Because Dante has never displayed going against an amount of opponents that large? So saying that he would be able to do it faster is pure assumption. Dante has maxed out at about a group of 50 or so enemies simultaneously. Not even close to 1,000.

Well how about something more impressive and noteworthy? Dante had his energies which includes the reserves of his soul zapped from him by the Nightmare demon in DMC 1. This demon was created by MUNDUS and it was crafted for Dante, and Dante only. Dante defeats it THREE TIMES, the third time Trish is assisting it to take him down and we both know she alone is formidable. This demon was also dimensional not only furthering the fact of how powerful Mundus is but how powerful Dante is. It manifested his inner demons, used his Devil energy against him and that includes having a majority of his magic removed as well as his demon forms reduced. Sparda also defeated an entire army of Mundus` demons which ranged in the thousands + and he faced Mundus, also in the process beating him. I know that is not Dante`s feat exactly but it doesn`t mean it can`t be used for a feat that is compatible, comparable and matchable to the math of his feats. Dante by DMC 4 would be as strong if not more powerful than his Sparda DT in DMC 1. Here are feats for the Nightmare demon as well as official lore this feat outmatches Sora defeating thousands of heartless. Also another feat I would consider is the Blood Palace although there might be variables it is shown consistently through DMC 3 - DMC 4 that Dante can fight enemies upon enemies for a large length in the period of time that these events take place.

Devil May Cry, Enemy File — Nightmare: "It’s a bio-weapon created by the Dark Emperor. Its properties consist of inorganic substances. Like a machine, it obeys the commands of the Dark Emperor. Whether it has a consciousness is unknown."

Devil May Cry, Enemy File — Nightmare: "The core has the power to absorb magical powers, and it does not exclude Dante’s powers. If it starts to absorb, damage the core to stop the absorption. When it absorbs enough magical powers, it will activate its own Devil Trigger and start attacking with tremendous force."

Devil May Cry, Enemy File — Nightmare: "The Nightmare possesses several cores. Each time a core is destroyed, its self-defense mechanism activates and its attack formation will change. Watch closely for the attack formation changes."

Devil May Cry, Enemy File — Nightmare: "When you are surrounded in its gel-like form, you will be teleported into an evil dimension. You must defeat the evil spirits that rule the dimension. The evil is a reflection of Dante’s trauma that rests in his subconscious."

Devil May Cry, Enemy File — Nightmare: "The embossed circles on the floor are restraining tools used to restrain the Nightmare from overriding. Once the Nightmare is restrained, it will encase itself in a hard armor. But it will show its core from time to time almost as if it’s breathing. To damage the Nightmare, it will have to be in this form."

Not saying he can't do it, I think he can of course. But to say he can do it "faster" is ridiculous, we don't even know how long it took Sora.

That is a sound and reasonable point but I don`t see why when he can teleport as well as move his body with much more swiftness, however I am seeing it from your perspective and I can come to an agreement here.

Dante beat an actual swordsman who practices laido his brother Vergil self trained himself from a very young age with limited resources Squall`s skill doesn`t match up with how Vergil wields Yamato

I'd argue that Squall is just as skilled, he just doesn't have the physicals of Vergil. But he wields the gunblade equally as well as Vergil wields Yamato.

Doubt it, Squall is one of my all-time favorite FF characters loved him in FFVIII but Vergil is much more impressive skill is not only about experience or having cunning-edge swordplay, but many times many fail to understand is that skill is about depth and being master over your sword, have the personal connection. In those areas I believe Vergil far exceeds Squall or Leon. Even if he did have Vergil`s stats, I can`t see him proving himself worthy as much as Vergil did with Yamato.

and I`ve proven many times why Vergil is a littler superior to Sephiroth not only is Yamato>Masamune but the flow, structure, strategy and mastery in which Vergil wields his sword is unparalleled.

Based off what? I'm not seeing any evidence suggesting that Vergil is superior to Sephiroth.

Based on the fact of his connection with his sword and Dante is a way superior swordsman in comparison to that of Cloud yet Cloud has stood toe to toe with Sephiroth on many occasions despite the acknowledged fact in regards to Sephiroth toying with him. Vergil is more in-tuned with the identity of his sword and he wields it like it is apart of him. The accuracy, precision, foreknowledge and wisdom in which Vergil wields his sword is just much greater.... I would know, I`ve seen both of these warriors in action and I`ve hit the books for both of these characters... Another thing is I would agree that Sephiroth is more powerful as well as more skilled in magic but that`s about it.

Dante also defeated his father`s apprentices in the canon anime both being trained by the best swordsman in all of demon world for thousands of years and Dante beat them easily, one of the brothers is strong enough to kill thousands of demons just like Sora yet he owned by Dante who didn`t even tap into his demon blood much.

Those two were basically featless besides statements though...

How were they featless? Baul is 2000 years old and rose to the ranks in the Underworld`s army if he was of no use Sparda would HAVE NEVER of entrusted him with anything. A demon who saw him in action and was associated with him even confirmed that he kills thousands of demons in a split second which when fighting Dante he has shown split second speed he just wasn`t up to par. Sparda was also the greatest living swordsman in all of the demon world which houses millions of demons and has many planes, Mundus had Sparda as his general in his army so.... I wouldn`t see Baul and Modeus wouldn`t have feats or the credibility of implications to their name. Moedus was lightning quick as well when he fought Dante, both brothers are over 2000 years old and they amassed knowledge in that time period, their older, more maturer, more wiser and more knowledgeable as they were trained by Sparda yet they still lost to Dante who wasn`t even at his peak at the time he fought them.

So i don't know what makes them so special. Especially since Sora could beat them both with ease, as he's done with Sephiroth and Cloud. Not to mention all of them members of Organization 13, most of which are MUCH more powerful than those two.

You have no proof of that and that is a blank statement, that is speculation to say the least. Dante would stomp Cloud and Sephiroth like he also did against Vergil, Nero and even himself his own Doppelganger which possessed all of his attributes which would include his skills as well as advancements in swordplay. Riku has beaten many of the members of the Organization in Chain of Memories (love that game) and Roxas to a degree as well.... So how is Sora special? Especially when he receives help from Donald and Goofy not saying their the significant players only that they are the closest players to keeping Sora in play. Dante does it all on his own most of the time and its not about being more powerful its the fact that Dante owned them like you say the others would, they had much more experience a lot of the enemies Sora faces anyway are adept magic users who fashion their weapons with magic and reality-law breaking, Dante at his core along with his opponents in their components are true swordsmen. Having played and having in my possession KH 2, (seeing KH 2 FM) and having Chain of Memories, I can say with full confidence that Dante would own them as much as Sora did.

Dante also beat Nero who would be quite admirably close in Sora`s range,

Not even close, Sora would stomp Nero. Dante is a solid enough opponent (still not strong enough, but I digress), but Nero isn't close to strong enough.

He ultimately would but that isn`t quite the point. Nero strength-wise and having efficiency with his sword Red Queen is not too far off from Sora he`s just really lacking in the robust raw magical department which compliments most of Sora`s abilities anyway and Dante is more than just a solid opponent if you look less at the mechanics, and more at the variables.

Nero was super-strong and super-skilled with his Red Queen sword, Dante also beat his brother again when he became Nelo Angelo

This kinda seems to me like a bit of a circular argument.

I don`t see why when the enemies are in the evidence of the point I made earlier about Dante`s skill.

Your argument for Dante being more skilled is that he beats Vergil, but Vergil's skill is also in question here, as I don't believe it's anywhere near Sora.

He beats Vergil more than once and how could you say that? Vergil is much more effective with Yamato in his composition they would be closer more than you would think. Dante in my opinion has faced REAL swordsmen the only standouts for Sora would be Cloud, Squall, Sephiroth and Terra but they don`t quite surpass Vergil they may be super close but not quite there. I know you may disagree but putting magic, high-grade weaponry and energized clashing aside, Dante combats and flows in combat within the territory of the nitty-gritty.

Dante and Sora may be equal, but Vergil is below both of them.

I could come to an agreement with this idea being fact but Vergil could match Sora and he is really impressive when it comes to reading movements just like Sephiroth as well as the others but he`s more hardcore.

another thing is Dante has shown far greater master of many, many, many weapons and he does so with ease, I wouldn`t be surprised if he were able to instantly click with the Keyblade and outdo Sora with it.

Quality > Quantity

I have to agree only that argument is in Dante`s favor not Sora`s.

The fact of the matter is, only Sora can wield Sora's Keyblade. This has been proven time and time again throughout the series.

That wasn`t actually my point but I agree. But there are many Keyblade users my point is that if Dante were to have the Keyblade or atleast a Keyblade he would be able to do things Sora probably wouldn`t be able to do or comprehend, he would wonder how did he do that and I could see Sora`s expression amounting to that very fact. The same with Dante`s guns you wonder how does he accomplish the things he accomplishes.

It's only been taken from him once, and it was because he let his heart falter. He won't be doing that again.

I agree.

And on top of that, Sora can master any weapon instantly as well.

Not exactly true, its not displayed all the time or as consistently fluent as what it is shown by Dante there`s no real comparison also Dante`s entire shop is filled with weapons and he is good with customization.

Here he takes Saix weapon from him and proceeds to use it perfectly:

I don`t see how that is impressive when Dante instantly masters and takes for himself weapons that are souls of demons while at the same time also mastering them in that instant-moment all Sora did was just bash Saix with his own weapons and let`s not forget it was Dante who mastered Yamato in his fight against Arkham. He also masters Agni and Rudra the Guardians who couldn`t be wielded by any other worthy challenger. I can compare Sora`s feat to what many other weaker characters do on a super-easy regular basis such as Kratos who is also known for stealing weapons and temporarily using them a good example would be from Hades which Dante could easily replicate also its not even at least like the Prince either who randomly picks up a weapon and exclusively makes it his own.

I want to see Sora match these!

Sora has also been matched by Riku and Roxas neither whom are as gifted or as talented as Dante.

Sora beat both Riku and Roxas, so I'm not sure where you got that from. But both of them are superior to Vergil, so it's a moot point anyway.

I know he did but my point still remains as fact. My point is that they can match and go toe to toe with Sora but I even wouldn`t consider them to be that skilled or closely in skill to Nelo Angelo. Your argument probably is but Sora is vastly more powerful, I`m not denying that but in skill its a different story.

That boss fight was superb!

Agreed, epic stuff!

:)

But Dante like I mentioned took on Nelo Angelo who housed the soul of Vergil an already mentally perfected swordsman who grew much stronger he`s even remarked by Dante as being a man of guts and honor which is shown within his sword fighting style.

A statement with no real weight against an opponent as strong as Sora!

It has a lot of weight since were talking about skill which many if not most of the time does not have to factor in physical strength or prowess its all about the craft and although Sora is many times more powerful than Sora in skill with that left out as a factor it gets more complicatedly close in the margin of comparison.

Dante beat him during his growing years so its the same with Dante only more impressive because Nelo actually kind of had some advantages over Dante besides skill or experience and he was amped by Mundus at the same time. Dante also beat Agni and Rudra guardians who were instructed by Sparda to guard the Tower which housed his power and both have thousands of years of experience, Dante beat them at the age of 18. He took on two extremely skilled and competent swordsman one wielding the element of wind and the other fire also they were unbeatable until Dante came along.

Again, all that is fine and good. But all of that is useless unless those guys have legitimate feats which, if my memory serves me, they do not. (Not counting Nelo, of course)

Terra on the other hand, has an entire game filled with feats, that all prove his legendary status, as opposed to all of the statements and hyperbole of all the characters you listed.

He does and I`ve seen them but it does not mean the other characters are featless thus not creditless Baul and Modeus both were the embodiment of the statements that described them and they both had ongoing feats also Nelo alone is on par with Terra so it only adds to my point about Dante`s consistency.

Nelo vs Terra would be a good fight, but it only goes to show how equal Sora and Dante are when it comes to skill.

I agree and that is something that is very sound but we have to question as well as put to the test how sound that argument can be however, I can agree here.

Which is what I'm arguing here. Not that one has an advantage over the other in skill, that they're equal.

I can agree here but like I said its about the testing of the characters and everything that surround them.

Usually Dante is also holding back when demonstrating his immense and enormous abilities unlike Sora who actually does not hold back most of the time and a good deal of times he can get a bit overwhelmed while Dante is having fun.

This is UNBELIEVABLY untrue.

I think it is TREMENDOUSLY truthful.

Sora is almost NEVER going all out when he fights. Even against Sephiroth he was just messing around!

So not true... I have KH 1, KH 2 and Chain of Memories, Sora has been knocked out as well as knocked down by the Nobodies in Twilight Town and King Mickey had to save him also in what way is it shown that Sora messing around? I played and beat Sephiroth it never said nor showed any element in which Sora was holding back I would find it to be the contrary because Sora knew how dangerous Sephiroth was and that he wanted the Keyblade yet he had to give it his all to face and defeat him. Dante fighting Nero, The Savior, all the other demons and fighting TDE is messing around, that is the definition of messing around having fun, doing it like it is casual and then cheering because you are winning.

Sora has really only put all effort forward ONCE, and it was against Xemnas. That's the only time he showed any sort of fatigue, and even then it was very minor.

That is extremely false. By your logic he didn`t beat the other bosses without fatiguing cause I don`t remember him fatiguing or tiring out only being a bit overwhelmed and even then that doesn`t prove he hasn`t given it his all like I said he`s been overpowered and distressed by the Nobodies, he gave it his all against Ansem, Riku and even Cerberus. Also just because Dante is panting does not mean he is fatigued or severely weakened it just shows his limits and it takes those who are of a certain caliber to exactly match him to be able to show those limits which doesn`t even happen commonly.

Here are the definitions

Fatigue

fa·tiguefəˈtēg/verbgerund or present participle: fatiguing

cause (someone) to feel tired or exhausted."they were fatigued by their journey"

synonyms:tire (out), exhaust, wear out, drain, weary, wash out, overtire, prostrate,enervate; More

reduce the efficiency of (a muscle or organ) by prolonged activity

weaken (a material, especially metal) by repeated variations of stress.

Panting

pant·ingˈpantiNG/adjective

breathing with short, quick breaths; out of breath."a panting dog"

Likewise, Dante put all his effort forward once against Mundus. Yet again proving how equal they are skill-wise.

That is irrelevant considering that Dante after that point puts absolutely no effort in stomping Mundus level beings and I even confirmed he puts a small degree of effort but Sora put effort against Xemnas, Ansem, and its not about giving it your all its about giving it almost your all which Sora has done on his own terms.

Not true, that statue at-least must be way more than many tons in the hundreds range also Dante pushed its dead-weight off easily while fighting it for MANY HOURS and he didn`t even seem tired. This same being was being powered by millenniums worth of demonic energy and it has cracked stone with ease.

Unquantifiable, we have no idea how much the statue weighed, thus it can't be used as a legitimate feat. We know it can crack stone with ease, but you don't even have to be a Class 10 to do that. Not even CLOSE to Sora, who was cutting 6 skyscrapers in one swipe with ease.

The same could be said about many of Sora`s feats but I don`t want to nitpick too much. Also we don`t need to know we can make calculations and the Savior was much larger than the Hell Gates also it seems like double standard considering the Lion King feat. And I would like to see the so called class 10s who can do that feat exactly the way Dante did it. Dante also stomped the Nefasturris a skyscraper demon he had no problem in taking it down and he has broken through Mundus` rocks that he conjured up as easily as Sora cut up those skyscrapers also it shouldn`t even be the highest standard considering I could say Dante and Kratos with enough force could do the exact same thing.

Dante at the age of 18 was able to parry, grapple and compete with a hundred tonner named Beowulf who was once a prime enemy of Sparda also this being can cause shockwaves, crack ancient stone easily and make the whole area shake.

What makes Beowulf a hundred tonner?

Its more of a guesstimation/assumption than anything but due to his light gauntlets he can create shockwaves, has thunderclaps, and he can crush through enchanted stone with ease also as confirmed by the creators not me his gauntlets contained the concentrated power of a small supernova so that says a lot right there!

Volcano
B r1+B u+B c(ground or mid-air)

Slam the ground with your fist to create a small super-nova that tears through enemies unfortunate enough to get in its path. Holding B c increases the power of the attack.

And even if he is, Hercules is way stronger, as he tossed multiple Titans into space.

He is strong no doubt about that but how does that mean anything when he didn`t even use that same strength against Sora if I`m not mistaken he went easy on Sora in their encounters that were only sparring matches in the first place and you have to remember that was Dante at the age of 18 overpowering a 2000 year old demon of brute strength. I remember facing Hercules in KH 1 and KH 2, all Sora did with his lifting strength was throw barrels at him to cause him to lose balance and become dizzy that`s pretty unimpressively basic. Sora is also quicker so he used that a lot to his advantage when facing Hercules when Dante in both the cutscenes and in-game events has matched Beowulf in striking power as well as resistance it was more of a REAL fight that required both to use the best of their abilities.

Dante has pretty much done the same he has even managed to easily cut through the Savior which the Red Queen wasn`t able to do and its even confirmed in the game that it takes a lot to actually break through yet Dante does so easily. That takes a lot of striking power to accomplish, Dante has also repelled a demon with so much force but so little enforcement that the demon crashed all the way down into an alleyway from the dining room they were fighting in this occurred in the anime.

All good stuff, but still not comparable to slicing through multiple skyscrapers like butter.

I would say so considering the Savior is much more densely durable than a typical skyscraper or just building its demonic stone infused with Sparda`s power and Dante has pierced through it.

Devil May Cry 4, Boss File — The Savior: "The most powerful demon brought forth by the Order of the Sword. Its exterior, oft-mistaken to be a god, holds a millennia of demonic matter and spirit melded together. With the blood of Sparda and his ancient sword, it will be possible to control The Savior for the first time."

Devil May Cry 4, Boss File — The False Savior: "Completely assimilating the body of Sanctus, the False Savior may fall short of a true god’s power; however, its repulsive tenacity means one must not let their eyes stray from it for too long. Bring forth final judgment upon this atrocity!"

During the battle with the False Savior, Nero's sword and gun are ineffective. And thus, the only way of defeating it is by using Buster.

That is a much more impressive striking feat, and we both know it.

I can understand but its not like Dante wouldn`t be able to cut through skyscrapers when he`s damaged and manged to pierce through more powerhouse structures.

Dante was able to outmuscle and outdo Nero who was able to crush the Savior, break through stone, steel, and toss large demons.

Nero "crushing" the Savior is a bit of a stretch, let's be honest here. He beat him, but it wasn't through brute strength.

Now I think you are underplaying Nero a bit here, he crushed the Savior with his Devil Bringer how is that not brute strength? When has Sora done something like that without having to strike directly?

The rest isn't anything impressive strength wise.

Nero can do everything that Sora has done

Not even close. Dante couldn't even do that.

I don`t see how its so super impressive when I can name many characters doing something of greater degree.

and even he doesn`t come close to a Dante who was only casually toying with him which was confirmed by Dante.

Irrelevant, since Sora >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nero.

Dante>>Sora>>>>Nero is more correct.

And I don`t see how Dante wouldn`t be able to replicate that when he has sliced through skyscraper level structures such as the Hell Gates.

Skyscapers are not only bigger than Hell Gates, but also thicker. Not only that, but Sora cut SIX in one swipe. A much more impressive feat than Hell Gates.

Not true, how can you say that? The Hell Gates aren`t normal forms of stone they are demonically enhanced and they act as channels for demons to enter in and out also that is speculation as much as it is assumption.

He resisted being swallowed by the green demon during DMC 4 which can be comparable to that of what Sora does when fighting the Cerberus.

Comparable, maybe, but still not as impressive.

Tossing around Nero who tosses around Berial, Echnida and the frog demon would be more impressive and Dante has shown to overpower Nero`s spectral arm which is confirmed to being enhanced through state of will, and he was motivated to fight Dante as well this took place in their second fight. Nero is stronger than Sora physically that is a fact, the only think Sora may have is striking power and magic but that doesn`t mean much when we are talking about the meat and the bone of these specifics. Nero has more lifting feats, he has lifted things way larger and stronger than himself, he has crushed things and he has struck things with great striking power his whole character is based on his Devil Bringer arm which is all about brute strength which the developers even confirmed. Dante while holding back has outmuscled and matched his strength, Dante in this match is not holding back at all.

Dante also stomped Abigail a demon who was compared to Mundus and he killed this demon in one strike with one burst of his demonic blood (it wasn`t really his DT) since he is going out here, Sora is going to have a hard time and I haven`t even actually covered all of his strength feats I can detail more but I`ll leave it at here.

I know most of them, I'm a huge Dante fan remember! Almost as much as you! And I can confirm that none of them are even CLOSE to cutting through skyscrapers.

Same here, I`m a hardcore fan of both Dante and Sora but I have to strongly disagree with that assumption. Dante has already defeated a skyscraper level demon and that skyscraper seemed to be larger or more wide in dimension than skyscrapers that Sora cut through also I would say that Mundus, The Savior and Nero`s DB arm are far more durable than skyscrapers. Also why wouldn`t Dante be able to do the same?

Dante also threw Cerberus across the room, his Cerberus a lot of the feats you mentioned for Sora could easily be replicated by Dante and we don`t see Sora lifting or resisting a lot in the realm of strength his striking power is good but Dante is better IMO.

Sora's striking feats are most certainly better than Dante, no doubt about it. I don't know how you can argue the contrary when Dante has no feats comparable to cutting six skycrapers like butter in one swipe. NOTHING Dante has done is comparable to that.

I already showcased that Dante has more than just ONE feat to being better he has a much wider resume. Also its not only about striking strength which matters the most but Dante has the legit showings to showcase why he is all-around more stronger he has more lifting feats and resisting feats in-game as much as CUTSCENES that alone puts the case to rest in regards to credibility and canonical credence.

As for lifting/resisting strength feats...

Able to block the foot of the Groundshaker, who is MUCH bigger than any other mountain nearby except Pride Rock. And Sora does this in Lion form, which is even more impressive.

How is that impressive when Dante is blocking the Savior`s fist when toying around? Dante would be able to block that as well also like you said it would be unquantifiable so we can`t gauge the weight of the Groundshaker and comparison wouldn`t be enough... It seems like assumption to me at best in regards to its weight.

I disagree and I think my evidence evaluates this fact.

Your evidence is good, no doubt about it. But not enough to put Dante in the same tier as Sora strength-wise, not even close.

I disagree.

I`ve played all those fights and beat all of them, I can see them as equals but Dante has the edge in blunt force durability as well as he has taken attacks from immortals like Mundus,

Sora has done the same from Xemnas, who is MUCH stronger than Mundus IMO. As well as Jafar, Ursula, Hades, etc. All godlike beings.

Xemnas has more control and range but I don`t know if he is exactly more powerful by such a greater gap or more ferociously formidable especially to someone like Mundus and I could see Dante taking Xemnas. Also it doesn`t matter since Mundus and Munduses + are no match for Dante (so even if Xemnas is more powerful it wouldn`t matter because Dante is much more powerful and he doesn`t need reality warping to prove it)

had swords like Rebellion, Yamato and the Sword of Sparda impaled within him through the chest with no avail.

Sora has done the same when he faced off against Sephiroth, Cloud, Squall, etc. So no big deal there.

They have never impaled him and there is no comparison here... Also you can`t compare the cartoonish violence which happens in-game to that of the comparison to the cutscenes that pretty much almost always happen in Devil May Cry... Also their weapons don`t even compare to Yamato, Rebellion, Sparda or Alastor.

Mundus was a dimensional reality warper forget planetary and Xemnas went beyond planetary but their pretty much in the same league

I'd argue Xemnas is superior due to having better feats.

They both created their own pocket dimension, but Xemnas's had more in it. Mundus' was basically nothing but darkness. But really, creating a pocket dimension is nothing special. Even powerhouses like Green Lantern/Surfer/etc. can do that.

In a sense he did, in a sense he did not, he just showcased more realities to it while Mundus himself actually quite had great detail and the difference is Mundus did not only create pure life he can make as many without any limitations, he has created stars for his dimension when fighting Dante and he can create demons who ON THEIR OWN create dimensions as evidenced with the Nightmare. Also he ruled on a universal scale its confirmed in the manga the Underworld is the other half of the universe and he ruled it....

They both can fly, shoot beams and stuff, but Xemnas displayed more powers.

He does another difference is Mundus is immortal and seal was the only option in beating him also Mundus can create far more life IMO which matches up for the lack of matter manipulation although he seamlessly, effortlessly and easily mustered up a pocket dimension which he has no limit of.

Xemnas displayed better combat speed as well.

When?

Plus, Xemnas amped by Kingdom Hearts was stated by the creators to be the most powerful character in the game thus far. That would mean he was more powerful than Hades, Jafar, Ursula, Chernabog, etc.

That is true but all of those enemies Dante could beat so it doesn`t really add to anything and they were Mundus level at best. Even if we are to compare as much as we now it does not change the fact that Dante has grown too powerful for entities of Mundus` scale examples would be the Despair and Abigail also the Cerberus from DMC Volume 2.

only Mundus is more dangerous he conquered a multi-dimensional realm called the Underworld,

I disagree.

First off, Xemnas absorbed Kingdom Hearts, which is obviously multi-dimesional since it contained the power of EVERY WORLD THERE IS. Considering how many worlds we've seen in the games, that's saying something.

That is true but Mundus conquered a multidimensional plane and killed the previous king as stated in the lore also there is an actual TIME CONTINUUM in sequence with the entire existence of that world. The reason why I put so much emphasis is because that adds to my earlier points about it being born from the universe which is true and a heaven also exists in the DMC Universe as made fact in the manga.

Second, the "Underworld" is nothing special, and we don't even know if it's multi-dimensional really, that's just speculation. I mean, Sora already beat Hades IN the Underworld, which makes the god even stronger.

That is so far from the truth. It was made up of half the universe as confirmed in the manga it has its own space time continuum and there are many planes in the demon world. That doesn`t mean Hades was as strong or authorial as Mundus was and based on feats, Mundus did WAY more also Hades is more of a schemer than anything else similar to Loki. I`m not not doubting Hades is power that was one of my favorite boss battles he can put up a challenge in both KH 1, 2 and CoM but it isn`t Mundus level its Jester level also a lot of what he displayed with his pyro related abilities were easily shown with Berial in DMC 4.

was immortal

So was Xemnas after absorbing Kingdom Hearts. And Jafar, he's an immortal Genie. And Hades, he's a GOD.

Actually Xemnas wasn`t exactly immortal he faded away only existing because of Xehanort in Dream Drop Distance, Mundus is a real immortal.

and can create legit life from nothing.

Creating life from nothing is cool and all, but useless in a fight. Not to mention, even characters like Green Lantern can do that, so it's not all that impressive.

Not really considering he created dragons to fight Dante in the second half of their first fight and he creates demons that are meant or built for fighting. They can do that but can they can do it like Mundus? Now that is the question. I`ve seen GL, SS, The Darkness and even Zeus do it but Mundus has no limit. He has also created a variety of things and he rules over them. Also what is the scale in which they can do it? Mundus created celestial bodies as present in his dimension that he made from scratch a lot of them have to draw energy from somewhere or have matter to manipulate.

while Sora has been knocked out before or overwhelmed

Um, when was this?

He`s been knocked out by the Nobodies in Twilight Town and he`s been bested by Squall although those are earlier points it doesn`t change the fact that it happened.

Dante`s healing factor coupled with his durability will make Sora at a strong disadvantage.

Sora's durability coupled with his Curaga will even it out, if not give Sora an edge!

Dante has been pierced within all of his insides by Abigail and he just laughed while breaking free with EASE

And Sora has been cut with Sephiroth's sword, Leon's Gunblade, Cloud's sword, Neptune's trident, Riku's Keyblade, Roxas' keyblades, etc. and just shrugged it off with ease.

None of them comparing to Dante being cut, pierced and impaled by Yamato, Alastor, Sparda, Rebellion (in which Nero was pounding on him with his DB and Nero`s tremendous strength throwing Rebellion directly into his chest with Dante yanking it out like its nothing) I want to see Sora survive that.

I actually proven that he is, Jafar, Ursula and Chernabog are just Mundus only with the Disney presentations.

I'd have to disagree.

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm gonna post this feat of Jafar:

I saw this feat, how does it differ from Mundus making stars out of a perfectly made dimension? Also there were multiple stars present within the dimension when he was conversing with Dante.

If you can show me ANYTHING that Mundus has done as impressive as playing with planets like they're nothing, then I'll yield that point. And I don't mean pocket dimension creation or making life, because even Green Lantern can do that. And I'm not being dramatic there either, I can actually post scans of that if you wish.

I know Green Lantern can do that it doesn`t mean he has done it to the same effect as Mundus has shown to do it who has no limitations unlike GL and Mundus has done multiple creation effects. I already explained that his star creation is feat is greater and I don`t recall Jafar even doing that in either KH 1 or 2. Not saying he can`t just saying it wasn`t shown also based on in-game feats they seem about even which would be a fairer comparison considering the combated context surrounding how their powers would even work in a fight.

In the end, we both know he created stars inside his dimension! Star creation>>>planet creation by miles.

And remember, I want to see an actual FEAT. Not speculation or statements, a feat.

And on top of all that, it was OFFICIALLY stated that Xemnas is even MORE powerful than that.

That is true but it doesn`t exactly mean he is more powerful than Mundus especially his feats there is no huge gap only a considerable one and Dante still dwarfs Mundus so...

Mundus is powerful, no doubt about it. But Sora's enemies are just on a whole nother level...

In a way they are but their not far off, the feats and implications are easily comparable. If its easily comparable as the criteria is easily comparable than the enemies are easily comparable.

Same with Dante and the things Dante has tanked are much more lethal as shown through the many numerous canon cutscenes that happen throughout the game.

HOW can that possibly be true?

I proved it. He actually tanks weapons that would kill Sora if they were to ACTUALLY pierce him through the heart or abdomen and Dante has cutscenes to also validate his already 100% in-game credible feats.

Sora has tanked everything Dante has and more. Swords, bullets, buildings being slung at him, fire, EVERYTHING.

Dante has tanked being crushed, smashed by lava heated ancient gauntlets, impaled in the heart, hit in the brain by Nero`s DB, reality warping, fire hotter than any conventional form of fire and much more.... Sora hasn`t tanked anything lethal or that would actually kill him I don`t see Sora surviving half of the things Dante tanks and Dante tanks them in-cutscene as well, that compliments the criteria.

Sora has been tired before also

Please, show me when. Even after he fought Xemnas, he was only mildly fatigued. Likewise Dante was against Mundus. So that's a moot point.

I already explained in multiple cases above.

and I don`t see him surviving being impaled while Dante has brushed it off all the time.

Impaled by Sephiroth, Cloud, Leon, and more. And he shrugged them all off.

When has he been impaled, I`m not talking about being inflicted there`s a HUGE difference.

The only difference is Dante heals after each blow, whereas Sora just shrugs it off like Superman.

No, Dante tanks and heals his durability is just as good as his healing factor, we don`t usually see Sora straight-out tanking things if its not in the gameplay and its cartoonish violence so of course its going to look like he`s shrugging off excess damage.

I don`t agree, Dante not only has the greater blunt force durability and damage soak but he has tanked things that would actually kill Sora, Sora tanks a lot of magic but Dante tanks that and the nitty-gritty the more humanly grounded stuff. The things you mentioned Dante could probably be tanking since he was 18 during DMC 3.

Again, no way. Sora has gotten smacked around by godlike beings, the only difference is that Dante's skin can be pierced, whereas Sora's cannot. They just bounce off. Sora has tanked FAR more powerful attacks than Dante has, because his enemies are much more powerful than Dante's, as I've explained above.

I already addressed this.

He`s more durable and he has a healing factor now how can you beat that combo?

Sora is more durable and he has Curaga! THAT'S how you beat that combo my friend!

Sora is not allowed to use magic if I`m not mistaken, it says so in the OP which means he can`t beat that combo and even if he could use magic it doesn`t change the fact that even he has limits with how much he can use the magic itself while also having to keep up to pace with an enemy as fast as Dante who can simply just vanish and leave no trace behind for Sora to even follow in the first place.

Dante has dodged lasers

Reacting to and deflecting an OMNIDIRECTIONAL barrage of lasers >>>>>>>>> dodging them. That's just a fact, I don't see how you can argue with that.

Dante has dodged light feathers from Beowulf which move in an omnidirectional fashion and those were ethereal needles but I digress cause remember the lore was a bit different but they were acknowledged as being lasers, however Dante has dodged lasers, light beams and just pure light altogether another thing is its movement speed for him for Sora its like a sequence, a stationary one where he has to guard he doesn`t react right away and blitz like Dante does also Dante can literally disappear..... Another thing is Dante deflected Mundus` light laser beam and he`s only gotten faster after that point not slower.

and Sora does not even have teleport which is more impressive than having lightspeed

Sora can teleport!

He does it in his fight against Xigbar:

He does it a lot actually, that was just the first fight that came to mind.

Not true its not a legit ability he doesn`t do it commonly. Its not like Glide and its not apart of his Command List even if it was, its not consistent to his character.

Even if you are right, it still pales in comparison to what Dante has shown to do consistently and in-custscene.

another thing is I don`t see why Dante wouldn`t be able to replicate those specific feats either.

Because he hasn't shown capable of it, so assuming he did it would just be speculation.

If we went by that logic, I could just as soon say EVERY character could do it.

Dante hasn't shown capable of anything CLOSE to that, so Sora is DEFINITELY faster.

Now, Dante is still lightspeed. But Sora is MFTL+.

That's going to be a major advantage in this fight.

Just because he hasn`t shown he can do it doesn`t mean he can`t its up to us decide to fill in those gaps as well and with that logic also like you mentioned before Sora would be able replicate plenty of what Dante has done which he hasn`t done in-cutscene like Dante has done within his respective game universe consistently. I`m not sold on the idea Sora is MFTL that means he is in league with Birus or Flash which is far from true also even if it were true it would be more akin to movement/reflex not reaction combat speed and perception because Sora`s mobility can be in question while Dante actually is a more fluid character and he moves instantaneously. That`s where the problem lies there is a barrier between reflex/movement and then combat/reaction, Dante has the better overall movement in regards to combat as well as reaction, Sora stays in one place and he doesn`t show that he can traverse at that speed or rate when in actual combat. Dante on the other hand has shown he is lightspeed in-game and in-cutscene so he has the credibility edge even if you think Sora is somehow vastly superior to him in speed, its the credibility that counts at the end of the day not the speed.

disagree, Dante is faster in both areas considering he has already done what Sora has done

No, Dante has NEVER done anything as impressive as what Sora did in the final fight against Xemnas. That's a fact.

Yes he has.... He has dodged lasers, light beams and light itself he has four legit feats for his lightspeed combat reaction speed.... Also Sora has never disappeared or moved so fast that he is stopping rain in its tracks neither has he launched himself and as maneuverable as Dante has on a moving missile. Dante`s memory muscle is better and he is more seamless while Sora is stationary or one dimensional with how he reacts to an attack.

and he`s been as fast as Sora since his younger years

Prove it...

Dodging light attacks, entering re-entry levels and stopping rain with pure speed friction when has Sora ever done that the only single feat you can use is the lasers and even that is questionable.

Plus, Sora IS in his younger years lol. And he's still faster than Dante.

there are many tricks and feats that Sora wouldn`t be able to replicate from even DMC 3

Such as?

Already mentioned above.

while you can`t say the same for Sora.

I assume you mean *Dante my friend?

You are correct, my bad I meant Dante.

And I could definitely say the same for Dante.

Dante hasn't proven that he can do everything Sora's done, where I believe Sora DEFINITELY could, as all of his enemies are much more powerful than anything that Dante's gone up against, as I proved above!

I already addressed this.

I wouldn`t be surprised if Dante ended up disappearing from him without him knowing throughout the fight.

Not going to happen, since Sora is not only faster, but he can teleport as well.

Dante is more consistent with his FTL feats than Sora is with being MFTL and Sora doesn`t actively teleport its by command. Dante actually teleports and he has seen invisible demons as well as defeated them with just pure perception.

Sora has been tired out and he`s even been overwhelmed as implied through dialogue,

I'd like to see an instance where he's been legitimately tired out or overwhelmed. Because I can't recall ANY circumstances where that was the case.

I already addressed this.

Not true, Dante has fought the Savior a much more powerful enemy without tiring out and he has fought many demons without tiring out either that also doesn`t mean Sora would be able to tire him out.

Facing 1,000 opponents singlehandedly is a much more impressive endurance feat than facing a big Demon Statue, as impressive as the Savior is.

I already addressed this.

If you look at the history of individuals it took to tire out Dante then you wouldn`t think Sora fit the bill even though Dante would be impressed with him it took characters like Vergil before Dante awakened his demonic blood, Nero and Mundus

Sora is more powerful than any of the characters you named, so I don't see how that matters!

No he is not he could beat them with not much trouble but it wouldn`t matter to Dante who could do the same and who is even more powerful than the bosses you mentioned as well also when adding the factors of cutscenes you have a whole new edging point in the argument itself, Dante has more going for him and his consistency seems to be more reflective of his credibility existing in both in-game and in-custscene instances add the manuals and..... Sora really isn`t as consistent or impressive.

but even then Dante is holding back also panting isn`t exactly parallel to awakening or not being able to sustain one`s stamina.

And the most Sora has done is pant, and it was only minor. So again, it's a moot point there.

He has collapsed as well and I could say the same for Dante

I don`t see happening also when Sora is going to be fighting Vergil who will blitz him with teleportation and Vergil`s teleportation is far greater than Maleficent, Jafar, Xemnas and many others who simply just slowly vanish and reappear.

Xemnas didn't just "slowly vanish," he disappeared same as Vergil.

Vergil moves at a much faster rate and its instant when he teleports unlike Xemnas who fades in and out while shifting positions also Vergil is a less palyful or manipulative character he will kill Sora right off the bat.

Not that it matters, as Sora has already shown that he can teleport as well, I displayed that above.

I addressed this.

Also I don`t see Sora surviving a couple of Judgment Cuts which Vergil can cause to number in the twenties all circling around,

Sora has tanked FAR worse, but again I've explained that above already.

No he has not and I already explained that Dante has tanked what Sora has tanked both in gameplay as well as cutscene, Sora HAS NEVER been impaled ever. Judgment cut, cuts right through reality on a dimensional level also its more swift as well as unpredictable than what Sora is used to also its more blunt damage than explosive force.

Not to mention, Vergil won't be hitting Sora.

That`s a big assumption to make especially when Vergil can teleport and he doesn`t have to engage in direct combat all he needs to do is summon hundreds of Judgment Cuts which appear instantly and unpredictably unlike Xemnas`s ethereal blasts.

Vergil is BARELY FTL, so he won't be hitting a MFTL Sora. The only reason Vergil even qualifies as FTL is because he can keep up with Dante. (A weaker Dante, but Dante nonetheless)

I could say the same for Sora being barely MFTL.... Characters who are not as fast or mobile have tagged Sora also I don`t see Sora dodging his Judgment Cuts either and Vergil doesn`t need to be FTL to tag Sora especially when it would be two on one. Vergil actually matched Dante who can react and combat with Beowulf who fires light attacks at lightspeed also teleportation is instant, how does MFTL beat that exactly in a combat scenario...

Sora neither has the durability to face that

Wrong!

Its true actually

nor healing factor

Curaga! Not that he needs it, his durability is enough.

Sora can`t use magic and even if he could it wouldn`t make a difference Dante could tag Sora before he could even mutter Cure.

even if you believe his durability is defined enough his healing factor wouldn`t be since Yamato also can cut through healing factors and durability.

Sora doesn't really have a healing factor. He just shrugs off most of the attacks, because they bounce right off of him!

I addressed this already.

I disagree, Yamato can cut through more things than the Keyblade has shown to do

How do you figure?

The Keyblade has cut through Sora, Roxas, Riku, Every Organization 13 member, Xemnas, Jafar, Ursula, Hades, Chernabog, Clayton, Lingering Will, Barbosa, Groundshaker, Captain Hook, Maleficent, Oogie, and many, MANY more.

How is that even impressive when none of those individuals have been cut straight through like Yamato, Sparda, and Rebellion have shown? Yamato has cut through more things actually in cut-scene as well thus making it more impressive, convincing as well as believably valid.

and has Yamato is more magically imbued blade,

How so?

It possess more magic and its a mystical weapon although the Keyblade is magical in nature I feel as though Yamato is more rawly rooted in demonics and magic.

and also Yamato has sealed, universes, dimensions and planes.

Yamato has only sealed a dimension/plane, and it did it ONCE.

So far from true, its sealed a dimension, acted as key for reopening dimensions and its cut through invulerable weapons such as the Devil Bringer.

Sora's Keyblade on the other hand has sealed/unsealed COUNTLESS worlds/dimensions/planes, and he does it CASUALLY.

Yamato has done that as well what makes the Keyblade more impressive other than casually? Sparda has done it casually and he has done so with many more things beside weaponry.

I also don`t see how that is more versatile since its even unlocked the power of different individuals so its range is better.

As does the Keyblade. It unlocks the Light/Darkness into your heart, which either strengthens you or weakens you depending on if you're a good character or an evil character. (Light would strengthen a good character but Dark would weaken them, and vice versa for an evil character). This is demonstrated by Sora, Maleficent, etc.

Yamato has unlocked the power of different powerful demons such as Dante, Vergil and Nero also Rebellion has unlocked Dante`s demonic blood also it wouldn`t matter since that wouldn`t work in a combat scenario when up against someone like Dante and I find it hard to believe that Sora would be able to hit a moving target that is known for vanishing from thin air on a consistently casual basis that none of Sora`s enemies have shown to do in gameplay or outside of it.

I can understand where you are coming from but Rebellion was made by Sparda the same wielder and master of Yamato also it was more than just a battle of blades it was a battle of blood as well as both blades wield demonic blood.

Demonic blood means little to a weapon capable of harming Hades, GOD of the Underworld, in his own realm. And also Jafar, Ursula, etc.

Hades wasn`t even that powerful he is as powerful as at least Arkham in DMC 3 who in his Jester form created a dimension and manipulated it from nothing creating his own matter with his reality breaking magic also he was more than just formidable he was cunning just like Hades also he`s shown more versatility than Hades another comparable character who is considered fodder to Dante that I can see matching Hades would be Berial Conqueror of the Fire Hell and to me he was a little more impressive in some ways.

That is far from true, Rebellion is easily as powerful as the Keyblade alone and you haven`t prove why that would be so.

Indeed I have!

You actually haven`t. Rebellion is a match for the Keyblade and they aren`t quite that different if you are to really map out what they have shown or have done.

and he also sealed the world TWICE as confirmed in DMC 3 and DMC 4

When was the second time? Can I get evidence on this?

First he sealed Mundus and the demon world then he did so again with Yamato as confirmed in DMC 4 he also sealed the Despair demon in DMC 2 along with the demon world.

he used Yamato as well as his own sword more casual than Sora which only blocks out the Heartless on a planetary scale

Planetary? No no. He sealed the Door to Darkness, which is UNIVERSAL because it was able to seal the path to EVERY World/dimension.

That is true but I`m talking about its consistent and ongoing feats, Yamato usually is universal + dimensional on the regular.

and Sparda has used more than one weapon to seal things including guns

When did Sparda do this?!?! I don't remember that?!?!

Like Dante, Sparda if I`m not mistaken also had Jackpot trademark to his own twin handguns

the only thing the Keyblade has over Yamato is the ability to open hearts.

Plus being more powerful, more versatile, and being able to do anything that Yamato can do. Whereas Yamato only seals/opens dimensions, the Keyblade does much more. It can transform, take on various keychains adding to it's versatility, can be duel-wielded, can turn into a glider, can unlock AND lock hearts as well as entire WORLDS and DIMENSIONS, is unbreakable, etc. There's no advantage that Yamato has over the Keyblade, none at all.

Not true, that is the only real identifier Yamato is more powerful and its cut through more things that I would find more impressive in combat. Yamato can unlock different powers, and that only proves versatility not actual raw physical power as Yamato should hold the edge in that regard.

Sparda has also yet again sealed another remnant or thing into place such as the Seven Sins within the manga who had godlike power they were planetary level

Can you prove they were planetary level? Again, talking about actual, legitimate feats, not just statements or hyperbole.

They were banished from Heaven like Mundus was and Sparda had to seal them by taking away their power as they were sealed to the earth because they threatened the world. Also feats don`t define all factors they are just one of the factors and feats can be so powerfully misused that they can create a spiral that can cause consistency to become inconsistency sometimes statements is all you need as long as nothing is contradicting or retconning them like you see in comics most of the time.

Sora does not have a single feat to match that

Very wrong, I've provided plenty of evidence proving the contrary.

You haven`t actually most of Dante`s feats are also in-cutscene along with being in-game.

and Sparda`s experience is unparalleled if we are to talk about sealing, he also sealed the Despair demon in DMC 2 although it did take assistance.

Sora has sealed worlds, hearts, dimensions, doors, etc. and has unlocked the same. Sparda has no edge here.

Sparda has done the same and he has done it with more than just his standard weapons he has done it with relics also he has more experience in doing it while Sora does it one dimensionally his track record lies more with sealing Keyholes while Sparda does grander things on a grander scale on a more patterned basis.

So does Sparda and he has done so with many weapons.

Yeah, I'd still like to see that!

He has used his trademark sword, Yamato, Relics, he has used stakes and he can use Jackpot just like Dante can. I want see Sora do all those things he can`t because he`s only a threat with the Keyblade when it comes to sealing away the Heartless and the Hearts of Worlds.

And even if it's true, that doesn't give Sparda an edge because Sora uses it in combat, unlike Sparda. In an actual fight, Sora's lock/unlock abilities are useful, unlike Sparda's.

It actually does because he can use those things in combat and he has also when he first sealed Mundus he faced him in combat and banished his demons also how would Jackpot which Dante is known for using count as being useless in a combat situation?? Also Sora`s unlock abilities deal more with the heart and it wouldn`t work all the time it works on those it is meant to work on the ones of darkness.

By my evidence that is simply untrue.

I`ve proven why it isn`t true.

By my evidence it is not.

I don`t agree, I think Dante is just too powerful

Certainly not too powerful for Sora.

He is more powerful all-around and he has more feats especially dealing with speed which your main argument seems to be that speed is Sora`s strongest advantage.

and experienced

Feats > Experience, and Sora has the far superior feats as I've proven above.

Feats and Experience >>>>>Feats which Dante has over Sora when it comes to speed as well feat history.

even without DT

DT has nothing on Drive Forms!

I`ve used all of them and they are BOSS no doubt about that but I can`t really see them as being superior when even the Drive Forms haven`t proven to be as versatile as Dante`s transformations as Dante has not only more but MANY that actually function much more specifically and uniquely to their characterizations. Final Form and Wisdom Form are like an upgrade of Valor form just add two keyblades, stronger aura and more magic with the damage output the truly unique exception would be the Anti-Form (my favorite arguably). Dante has Dreadnaught, Sparda, Devil Trigger, Majin and each transformation changes with the swap of a Devil Arm also Dante can fly while Sora only levitates in his Drive Forms. Dante`s Devil Forms also give him the edge in durability and healing as he can recuperate faster as well as bounce back faster while Sora remains more at standard or conventional levels his only real attribute is raw physical-magical power.

also his healing factor is already an enormous advantage

Agreed. But nothing Sora can't counter with his durability.

Sora can keep going but the gap is still quite big once you have a healing factor such as Dante which even godlike characters and weapons of cutting-edge force cannot overcome weapons that are designed to cut pass regeneration or a tricky durability don`t kill or at least put Dante in any real harm even when he faced Vergil, Dante was never in any real harm which also means your argument about him fatiuing and being out of energy is severely incorrect it didn`t actually push him also Dante since then has NEVER EVER shown fatigue.

Also Sora has to fight Vergil too which he won`t be able to both of his opponents can teleport and Vergil going all-out means it will not end well for the Keyblade Master.

Sora can handle Vergil with ease, as he is his superior in every way.

Not true, Sora will get stomped fighting both at once especially since Vergil can teleport and vanish as well as Dante while Sora not to my knowledge has ever faced an enemy of that caliber in sheer movement-coordination speed. Vergil will read his moves and act accordingly even if Sora is faster in some categories Vergil to me is certainly more rawer and acts in quick burst also you wouldn`t argue that Sora would be able to take on both Goku and Vegeta who both use IT.

If the battle is Sora vs Vergil and Cloud vs. Dante, then it would be much tougher for Sora. But I think Sora can take out Vergil as quickly as Dante can take out Cloud, given his MASSIVE speed advantage, not to mention all the other advantages.

I disagree. Sora would beat Vergil but not as casually as you are making it out to be even by feats and consistency in which those feats are weighed along with quantity which matters when its in the equation of quality, Vergil dwarfs Xemnas, Sephiroth and Cloud also he is more lethal he will go straight for the KILL. Dante would take out Cloud faster considering his ability to vanish and a couple of Keyblade strikes won`t be bringing down Vergil so easily whose healing factor was on par with DMC 3 Dante`s also Dante has lightspeed feats in DMC 3 Beowulf being a prime example and he`s matched Dante blow for blow while being able to teleport which he also has over Sora in terms of feats and showings, this you cannot deny.

And once he does that, Sora vs. Dante would be an epic fight, but one that Sora would certainly win.

I agree but I disagree once again. Sora will be a strong contender when facing Dante but Dante going all out is a different monster entirely and I certainly don`t think Sora could take Vergil easily.

Now, if the battle is Sora vs. Dante and Cloud vs. Vergil, then Sora definitely would win, because he could beat Dante faster than Vergil can beat Cloud. And then once Sora finishes with Dante, beating Vergil will be simple.

Its the other way around actually. Dante beats Cloud as he has shown to teleport as well as VANISH unlike Sora and he will kill Cloud on the spot since he`s going all out then Vergil will stall Sora with teleportation and Judgment Cuts which Sora could have a problem with because he doesn`t have Command Techniques for certain situations in Kingdom Hearts when doing things aerially and Sora certainly won`t be able to win against both.

Although, if I happen to be wrong, and either one finishes Cloud before Sora gets finished fighting, then THAT could cause serious issues. Two against one would be a serious problem, even for Sora.

I think Sora would get uber-stomped to be honest, there`s no way he is taking on two characters of that speed caliber when his previous enemies have never shown to be of that range when it comes to the demonstration of speed their one dimensional while Dante and Vergil are three dimensional.

If that was the case, then I'm not sure who I would say wins here.

Team wins.

No problem :) I really like your arguments for Sora and you have been doing a marvelous job in this entire debate, I commend you!!

Likewise my friend! A truly fantastic debate! xD

I agree, this is awesome :)

Jmarshmallow

#5 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirneko

I actually already had an idea in mind for why you have the memes present I just found them to be 100% not worthwhile to a debate such as this and I never made up my own definitions of words when you failed to understand the other half of it only talking about bloodlust but not no-morals which is a BIG difference when you have both definitions side by side to one another.

#6 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

After reading through the entire debate and analyzing it, point for point, counter for counter and argument for argument. I am going to have to give my vote to @pope052 not only were his points more convincing and concise in their consistency they were also more correct in the regards to the overall dynamics of the debate. Once again not only did he prove the fact that he is more than just a supreme and super-solid debater he also proved why he is an individual to be followed and someone you should be taking notes from as well as trying to understand as well as well appreciate in terms of what it is that makes him special :) He really nailed Piccolo`s feats and he expertly executed his reasons in an orderly fashion that illustrated why Piccolo had not only the immediate edge in speed but the overall all-roundness to win. @gojira2014 did a fantastic job in representing for Godzilla and giving insight into his underestimated feats also he made the debate extremely fun to read as well as follow detail for detail and word for word! I also miss CadenceV2, I wonder what happened and I hope everything is okay with him, he brought an engaging element to comicvine, also his threads were really open-minded in their uniqueness.

#7 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@etheral_dreams

Awesome guess and that is also an awesome character :) But the Raziel I`m referring to is from my favorite video game franchise of all time, Legacy of Kain and I have to respectfully disagree. I think my team would be able to take your team and take home the victory.

#8 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

I`m thinking of using Kratos, Raziel, Sieg Warheit or Link, Sora, Subject Delta, Crash Bandictoot and Dante (Dante`s Inferno) those would be my choices but I`m not certain.

#9 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow said:

@neongamewave said:

@jmarshmallow

This is a good match-up and I really like the arguments that are being made on both sides :)

Of course! xD

:)

But I think Cloud is the weak-link

Agreed, unfortunately.

Definitely

and that will give Team 2 more of the advantage to win.

This is where I disagree!

And this is also where it gets interesting

In terms of Sora vs Dante (two characters who are both favorites and are equal to me) I think that Dante has the advantage due to the fact that he is more skilled, stronger, durable

Woah now Neon. I'm gonna have to stop you righhhhhhht there!

You can try :)

I don't think Dante has any of those advantages over Sora.

I really think he does especially with his experience added with the fact of his feats

First off, Skill- Dante is very skilled, we both know this. There's not doubt about that.

I agree

However, Sora isn't any slouch in that department either. He was able to take down 1,000 Heartless on his own because of his skill, was able to beat Squall (in the official canon he beats Squall) before he had ANY experience with the Keyblade, was able to beat Cloud, and was able to beat Sephiroth TWICE and all of those characters are some of the most skilled swordsman in their respective universes.

I agree, he isn`t but he doesn`t quite match Dante`s experience, style, uniqueness and swordsmanship which looks also more awesome because of his showmanship. I remember that feat and I still remember playing it, it was awesome but I don`t see how Dante wouldn`t be able to replicate that and clear them faster. Dante beat an actual swordsman who practices laido his brother Vergil self trained himself from a very young age with limited resources Squall`s skill doesn`t match up with how Vergil wields Yamato and I`ve proven many times why Vergil is a littler superior to Sephiroth not only is Yamato>Masamune but the flow, structure, strategy and mastery in which Vergil wields his sword is unparalleled. Dante also defeated his father`s apprentices in the canon anime both being trained by the best swordsman in all of demon world for thousands of years and Dante beat them easily, one of the brothers is strong enough to kill thousands of demons just like Sora yet he owned by Dante who didn`t even tap into his demon blood much. Dante also beat Nero who would be quite admirably close in Sora`s range, Nero was super-strong and super-skilled with his Red Queen sword, Dante also beat his brother again when he became Nelo Angelo another thing is Dante has shown far greater master of many, many, many weapons and he does so with ease, I wouldn`t be surprised if he were able to instantly click with the Keyblade and outdo Sora with it. Sora has also been matched by Riku and Roxas neither whom are as gifted or as talented as Dante.

Not to mention the fact that he was able to beat the Lingering Will, which was a body of armor that housed Terra's soul. And Terra was a Keyblade Master with MUCH more experience and training than Sora, so it was just to show how skilled Sora is despite his relatively new experience with the Keyblade.

That boss fight was superb! But Dante like I mentioned took on Nelo Angelo who housed the soul of Vergil an already mentally perfected swordsman who grew much stronger he`s even remarked by Dante as being a man of guts and honor which is shown within his sword fighting style. Dante beat him during his growing years so its the same with Dante only more impressive because Nelo actually kind of had some advantages over Dante besides skill or experience and he was amped by Mundus at the same time. Dante also beat Agni and Rudra guardians who were instructed by Sparda to guard the Tower which housed his power and both have thousands of years of experience, Dante beat them at the age of 18. He took on two extremely skilled and competent swordsman one wielding the element of wind and the other fire also they were unbeatable until Dante came along. Usually Dante is also holding back when demonstrating his immense and enormous abilities unlike Sora who actually does not hold back most of the time and a good deal of times he can get a bit overwhelmed while Dante is having fun.

If anything, they're equal in skill. Dante may be more versatile with weaponry, but Sora's Keyblade is all he needs. Anything Dante can do with all his various weaponry, Sora can match/counter with the Keyblade.

Maybe but I doubt it, I`m just more impressed with Dante because he can not only master any weapon instantly, his experience and repertoire speak for themselves. Also its not just sheer versatility or all-roundness its also Dante`s will to wield the weapon I would say their swordsmanship and bond to their respective signature swords is about equal for example Dante`s connection to Rebellion is equal with Sora`s connection to the Keyblade and Dante is connected by blood which the sword is linked to meaning Dante would be able to overpower Sora`s will.

Stronger-Besides the Savior feat, which is almost entirely unquantifiable, Dante has no real strength feats to say he's anywhere NEAR Sora.

Not true, that statue at-least must be way more than many tons in the hundreds range also Dante pushed its dead-weight off easily while fighting it for MANY HOURS and he didn`t even seem tired. This same being was being powered by millenniums worth of demonic energy and it has cracked stone with ease.

Let's not forget, this is the guy who cut 6 skyscrapers in a row like they were butter, batted skyscrappers like a ball, outmuscled the Greek Hero Hercules, beat Titans, gods, etc.

Dante at the age of 18 was able to parry, grapple and compete with a hundred tonner named Beowulf who was once a prime enemy of Sparda also this being can cause shockwaves, crack ancient stone easily and make the whole area shake. Dante has pretty much done the same he has even managed to easily cut through the Savior which the Red Queen wasn`t able to do and its even confirmed in the game that it takes a lot to actually break through yet Dante does so easily. That takes a lot of striking power to accomplish, Dante has also repelled a demon with so much force but so little enforcement that the demon crashed all the way down into an alleyway from the dining room they were fighting in this occurred in the anime. Dante was able to outmuscle and outdo Nero who was able to crush the Savior, break through stone, steel, and toss large demons. Nero can do everything that Sora has done and even he doesn`t come close to a Dante who was only casually toying with him which was confirmed by Dante. And I don`t see how Dante wouldn`t be able to replicate that when he has sliced through skyscraper level structures such as the Hell Gates. He resisted being swallowed by the green demon during DMC 4 which can be comparable to that of what Sora does when fighting the Cerberus. Dante also stomped Abigail a demon who was compared to Mundus and he killed this demon in one strike with one burst of his demonic blood (it wasn`t really his DT) since he is going out here, Sora is going to have a hard time and I haven`t even actually covered all of his strength feats I can detail more but I`ll leave it at here. Dante also threw Cerberus across the room, his Cerberus a lot of the feats you mentioned for Sora could easily be replicated by Dante and we don`t see Sora lifting or resisting a lot in the realm of strength his striking power is good but Dante is better IMO.

Sora easily has the strength here.

I disagree and I think my evidence evaluates this fact.

Durability-Okay, so I'll give you that Dante has a healing factor, a healing factor that would make Wolverine jealous no less, and Sora doesn't. So Dante has that edge.

I agree.

However, Sora is EASILY just as durable, if not moreso.

I disagree.

Again, we're talking about Sora. The guy who's tanked blows from the reality warper Jafar, Ursula wielding the power of the sea. Hercules the strongest of all the Greek Heroes, Chernabog, Sephiroth, Xemnas the planetary+ reality warping mothertrucker, and many many more.

I`ve played all those fights and beat all of them, I can see them as equals but Dante has the edge in blunt force durability as well as he has taken attacks from immortals like Mundus, had swords like Rebellion, Yamato and the Sword of Sparda impaled within him through the chest with no avail. Mundus was a dimensional reality warper forget planetary and Xemnas went beyond planetary but their pretty much in the same league only Mundus is more dangerous he conquered a multi-dimensional realm called the Underworld, was immortal and can create legit life from nothing. Dante beat him with a seal and tanked his reality warping also Dante`s been punched into the ground while in his human form he came out with no injuries in-cutscene while Sora has been knocked out before or overwhelmed and Dante also has been pounded on by Nero`s Devil Bringer and we both know how strong that is.... Dante`s healing factor coupled with his durability will make Sora at a strong disadvantage. Dante has been pierced within all of his insides by Abigail and he just laughed while breaking free with EASE.

And you're telling me that Dante is more durable than that? No way.

I actually proven that he is, Jafar, Ursula and Chernabog are just Mundus only with the Disney presentations. Dante also later stomps a being more powerful than Mundus in his human form and he tanked all of his attacks like they were nothing.

Sora has tanked just about everything you can imagine, and yet he is almost NEVER seriously damaged or exhausted after any of his fights (there are exceptions, but not many).

Same with Dante and the things Dante has tanked are much more lethal as shown through the many numerous canon cutscenes that happen throughout the game. Sora has been tired before also and I don`t see him surviving being impaled while Dante has brushed it off all the time.

If anything, I'd give Sora the edge in durability, considering everything he's tanked. Not to mention the fact that he can heal just as easily as Dante.

I don`t agree, Dante not only has the greater blunt force durability and damage soak but he has tanked things that would actually kill Sora, Sora tanks a lot of magic but Dante tanks that and the nitty-gritty the more humanly grounded stuff. The things you mentioned Dante could probably be tanking since he was 18 during DMC 3.

I'm willing to bargain that they're equal here....but Dante being more durable? No way bro!

He`s more durable and he has a healing factor now how can you beat that combo?

and even if Sora was to be in some way, somehow faster,

He is though! His speed feat is FAR more impressive than what Dante has done. Being able to dodge an omnidirectional barrage of lasers >>> any speed feat Dante has done.

Dante has dodged lasers and Sora does not even have teleport which is more impressive than having lightspeed another thing is I don`t see why Dante wouldn`t be able to replicate those specific feats either.

Now they're both lightspeed, but whereas Dante may have faster travel speed, Sora is most DEFINITELY faster with combat speed.

I disagree, Dante is faster in both areas considering he has already done what Sora has done and he`s been as fast as Sora since his younger years there are many tricks and feats that Sora wouldn`t be able to replicate from even DMC 3 while you can`t say the same for Sora. I wouldn`t be surprised if Dante ended up disappearing from him without him knowing throughout the fight.

it wouldn`t matter because Dante would still be able to outlast him.

Again, Sora has almost never shown signs of fatigue after his fights. So I gotta disagree with you their bro..

Sora has been tired out and he`s even been overwhelmed as implied through dialogue, it takes those who can match him to even fatigue him, I don`t see Sora tiring Dante out especially when he is not holding back.

Even after he fought 1,000 Heartless by himself (which, might I add, is a greater endurance feat than ANYTHING Dante has done), he wasn't even tired.

Not true, Dante has fought the Savior a much more powerful enemy without tiring out and he has fought many demons without tiring out either that also doesn`t mean Sora would be able to tire him out. If you look at the history of individuals it took to tire out Dante then you wouldn`t think Sora fit the bill even though Dante would be impressed with him it took characters like Vergil before Dante awakened his demonic blood, Nero and Mundus but even then Dante is holding back also panting isn`t exactly parallel to awakening or not being able to sustain one`s stamina. I don`t see happening also when Sora is going to be fighting Vergil who will blitz him with teleportation and Vergil`s teleportation is far greater than Maleficent, Jafar, Xemnas and many others who simply just slowly vanish and reappear. Also I don`t see Sora surviving a couple of Judgment Cuts which Vergil can cause to number in the twenties all circling around, Sora neither has the durability to face that nor healing factor even if you believe his durability is defined enough his healing factor wouldn`t be since Yamato also can cut through healing factors and durability.

Dante won't be able to outlast him.

I disagree.

I also have to disagree with the idea of the Keyblade being greater than Yamato, Yamato has been confirmed by the creators to being able to cut through dimensions, realities and it was confirmed outside of the games in the canon-manga to being just that.

Not only is the Keyblade more versatile, but it does the same things. It locks and opens dimensions and worlds, which is pretty much what Yamato has done.

I disagree, Yamato can cut through more things than the Keyblade has shown to do and has Yamato is more magically imbued blade, and also Yamato has sealed, universes, dimensions and planes. I also don`t see how that is more versatile since its even unlocked the power of different individuals so its range is better.

But let's not pretend Yamato LITERALLY cuts through everything, because when Vergil used Yamato and clashed with Dante, it should have cut his sword right in half. But it didn't.

I can understand where you are coming from but Rebellion was made by Sparda the same wielder and master of Yamato also it was more than just a battle of blades it was a battle of blood as well as both blades wield demonic blood.

I'm not dissing Yamato, you know that. I'm just saying that ONE of Dante's weapon isn't as powerful as Sora's ONLY weapon.

I disagree.

Maybe combined all of his weapons equal the Keyblade, but Yamato itself isn't versatile enough to equal the Keyblade.

That is far from true, Rebellion is easily as powerful as the Keyblade alone and you haven`t prove why that would be so.

Also it was Sparda who separated complete universes with Yamato which has even acted as a medium to allowing two different planes of existence to operate together that alone showcases that Yamato like the Keyblade is a special type of key all on its own. I would say the Keyblade has more feats but it doesn`t have the quantifiable feats to say that it is greater than Yamato`s quality of feats IMO.

It took all of Sparda's strength to do that, whereas Sora does the EXACT SAME THING to every world/dimension he visits.

It did not actually in DMC 1 it explicitly confirms that he sealed his own power because he grew too strong and he also sealed the world TWICE as confirmed in DMC 3 and DMC 4 he used Yamato as well as his own sword more casual than Sora which only blocks out the Heartless on a planetary scale and Sparda has used more than one weapon to seal things including guns just like Dante with Jackpot, the only thing the Keyblade has over Yamato is the ability to open hearts. Sparda has also yet again sealed another remnant or thing into place such as the Seven Sins within the manga who had godlike power they were planetary level and Sparda sealed them away while taking their names as well as power from. Sora does not have a single feat to match that and Sparda`s experience is unparalleled if we are to talk about sealing, he also sealed the Despair demon in DMC 2 although it did take assistance.

And he does it casually.

So does Sparda and he has done so with many weapons.

So yes, the Keyblade most certainly DOES have the quantifiable feats to be superior to Yamato.

By my evidence that is simply untrue.

The one feat Yamato DOES have, the Keyblade has replicated MULTIPLE times, only Sora does it with ease.

I disagree.

@neongamewave said:

@jmarshmallow

I also agree that both Sora and Dante are officially light-speed in every category when it comes to reaction/reflex/combat speed their not only consistent but they have feats which would even dwarf a lot of fast characters in general who wouldn`t be classified as even massively hypersonic but quite passed that.

Agreed, but again, Sora is most definitely faster in combat/reaction/reflex speed based on feats.

I don`t agree, I think Dante is just too powerful and experienced even without DT also his healing factor is already an enormous advantage. Also Sora has to fight Vergil too which he won`t be able to both of his opponents can teleport and Vergil going all-out means it will not end well for the Keyblade Master.

Btw, I might be coming off as a little strong, but that's only because I've been waiting to match Dante up against Sora for quite some time now! I'm very excited! xD

No problem :) I really like your arguments for Sora and you have been doing a marvelous job in this entire debate, I commend you!!

Jmarshmallow

#10 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: Both Sora and Dante are lightspeed, especially Dante. Dante went from simply dodging lightning and outracing or outmaneuvering raindrops to dodging light attacks and legit laser beams another thing is Dante can teleport which on its own would be more useful and valuable than just simply moving at lightspeed within combat. Dante also has entered re-entry levels at his weakest and youngest during DMC 3 which basically would be in the Mach 25 + range and I put a lot of emphasis on the addition sign. So with that said we both know Dante has been already massively hypersonic at his lowest and weakest in his entire series so graduating to lightspeed is only the real answer to what comes next, if you want the feats or videos then let me know, I`ll post them.

Already seen them & i've played every DmC game. Raindrop feat can easily be achived at hypersonic speed & going from Mach 25 to Mach 880991 is a huge leap. There's simply not enough feats of him going at light speed and he have never fought that fast. + The animation of the game is a bit iffy.

Same here also I`ve read the lore, in-game manuals, novels and manga which are canon. That was DMC 3 Dante achieving a hypersonic combat feat without having to awaken his demon blood which is why its called DMC 3: Dante`s Awakening and you are forgetting when Dante threw his blade with such force it caused it to catch friction as well as enter into re-entry levels. Dante also can teleport in-combat that should be significantly considered since teleportation>lightspeed. What does animation from old less modern games have anything to do with feats, a single feat can be enough if it isn`t inconsistent. Dante has three feats for achieving lightspeed, one with Mundus, another with Arius and then another with Mundus in the novel also the Damned Chessman fire LASERS which Dante dodges many times over throughout the game.

8:30 - 9:34

I mean, if Dante is LS because of this scene.

Dante actually outraced the light attack which is confirmed to being a light attack.

Then i guess Trish is also LS too?

Notice the variables in which you are arguing between the two characters.

1. Trish pushed Dante BEFORE Mundus managed to fire the beam which he charged

2. The in-game camera angle makes it look that way

3. Trish still got hit dead on by the light she did not react or deflect it like Dante LATER does literally moments later

1:30 - 1:35

Honestly,he doesn't have enough feats that makes him LS imo. There's no statements, nothing to quantify & it comes down to speculations + powerscaling.

He has enough its how you look, where you look and how you find them. Dante has more legit lightspeed feats than Spiderman or Tsuna yet there are some who would argue that those two are lightspeed even though they may have more distinguished and numerical feats its about the quality not the quantity. There doesn`t need to be statements sometimes statements can harm the foundation of a specific feat thus the consistency of that character for example Flash we both know he is way beyond lightspeed but there is a feat and a scan that is questioned by many in terms of the accuracy, and guess what? It uses statements and text boxes so its all about context with that logic DBZ characters wouldn`t be lightspeed even though we both know that is 100% false and unproven.

Sora i believe have not shown any light speed movements. LS reaction at the end of KH 2 i could agree but not movement.

5:30 - 6:20

He has lightspeed reaction speed and Sora`s Reflect is light reactionary as well he would have to coordinate his steps to be lightspeed with the activation of the technique. Also blocking and moving around thousands of lasers seems to be lightspeed IMO. The evidence is there its speculation to believe that it wouldn`t be lightspeed without statements. Sora dodging hundreds of lasers from Xigbar should be above massively hypersonic at that point especially since Xigbar actually beings to create space wormholes after that point redirecting the needles and we know how fast they should be at that point. These are official enemy files from the game, pretty much canon to the character. Sora has even beastly reacted to wind itself the actual element of wind from an experienced fighter named Xaldin.

Founding member. He keeps an ear to the ground and a finger on the trigger. Manipulates space.

The Organization's No. II, a master of the arrowgun and spatial manipulation. As a long-range fighter, he'll try to keep foes from closing in by warping away as he fires.

The full salvo attack he uses in desperate situations is truly devastating.

3:52 - 4:00 and 7:58 - 8:10

2: 30 - 4:00

Anyways, i've made my case & this is merely my opinion. I just don't think he's Mach 880991. That's a speed that can travel several of times around the earth in seconds.

I like your points and you have awesome arguments but I`m not sold on the idea of just because this doesn`t have statements means a feat has become featless when we can actually build a foundation from more than one thing, feat + calculation + scale and etc itsn`t actually too complicated as long as you see it as a foundation which statements are based off of at the end of the day.