Please fix your formatting before you post next time. It isn't hard, and makes it much easier for people to reply to you. The quoting system on the board helps faciliate discussion, using it in the way you did does not. Thanks.
- I don't understand why you continue to redefine evolution in cap's story, as simply peak human. This is the crux of our discussion. So you can stop stating how it means "peak of current humans". There are clearly 2 different interpretations, and your statement has been said enough.
Sigh. There is no redefinition going on here. Evolution means one thing that's it. You were using it incorrectly and now you seem to be saying that it has a different meaning in the comic book.
Evolution has nothing to do with peak human. Peak human means peak human, it's pretty simple. The only link was a supposition that next step in human evolution could be referring to caps being peak human being the new "default" for humans, which he may pass on. I explained all that above, maybe you should take time to read through the post again.
- Now you're discounting the quoted words said specifically in the comic book? No, we should all be smart enough to understand that this scientist meant exactly what he said. Twisting his words, or not taking them literally would truly be misinterpreting it.
Don't be daft. We've agreed that a serum does not induce evolution. That makes the statements by the scientist problematic if taken literally. It makes far more sense for him to be exaggerating. Even if we take him literally, it is irrelevant as it is still an ambiguous claim. There are any number of things he could be referring to. Your claim that he is referring to everything is no valid than the others.
Again, I honestly don't know why you keep thinking that what he's saying shouldn't be taken the way he said it. If he didn't mean what he said, cap would not have these healing powers, and above human strength and speed. If he were only referring to his healing powers, he would have singled out his healing powers as the "next step in human evolution". There seems to be no logic behind this reasoning.
Yeah, see what's happening here is you've got a particular interpretation that makes sense to you, and you've convinced yourself it's logical. It isn't. You're interpretation is one of many possible from an ambiguous statement. You talk about taking it the way he said it, but you are interpreting how he said it. Do you understand that?
But lets say I go with what your saying for the moment, and that "next step in human evolution" couldnt be referring to only his healing powers. It doesn't matter. It would still be referring to his changes that his is capable of passing on. It's those changes that we are discussing, and the statement by the scientist does nothing to clarify if it is the peak of what man is capable of, or beyond that.
Go back and see how you used the word "evolve", and look at my reaction to it, and you will see what i'm saying. There is no reason for me to repeat myself.
Again, don't be daft. You replied to a statement where I stated I had just gone back and read the posts. Given how you've been using the word incorrectly, despite your claim to be university educated in this subject, I'm not giving this avenue of our discussion further thought.
I have never said being outnumbered is a reason for you to get proof, I said thus far, you've been sitting back, asking others to bring proof. While you yourself acknowledge that there is multiple ways of interpreting this, yet don't provide any proof of your own. Others have brought why they believed it to be a certain way, with actual proof, and all you brought was your opinions and interpretations. This doesn't help you in your argument at all.
This is flat out incorrect. The proof you speak of has been people with strong opinions insisting they are correct, cherrypicked feats and ambiguous statements from the comic. You must have a really loose definition of proof. I really hope you're not going into a science field.
Also, when you say I'm in the extreme minority and go to lengths to emphasize that while saying due to that I have more of a responsibility to provide evidence, then yes, you are saying being outnumbered is a reason for me to get proof. If that isn't what you meant, read your statements before posting to make sure they are clear.
Now, as for providing proof, what would you accept? I've quoted various marvel sources, which is about all I can do. I can't prove a negative. What would you accept as proof? Why are you so quick to dismiss what Marvel has to say on the matter?
- The opposite is actually true, but we are definitely viewing this from different angles. The statement is clear, and has been clear. Numerous Cap writers, and feats have come out and stated that the "peak of human potential" is the correct assessment. So its pretty clear that him simply being peak human is truly the opinion that consists of people pushing their own interpretations.
Oh, cool! That seems like it should clear things up pretty quickly then. Maybe you can link me to where someone provided evidence of these numerous cap writers stating that and the numerous feats. The only writer I've seen referenced is Brubaker, which is exactly one writer. Two feats comes to mind right now without going through the thread, both of him running at very high speeds. If they are not isolated incidents, maybe a few more scans would clear it up pretty quickly? Otherwise they mean about as much as Batman kicking the Spectre.
- The simple notion that the "cherry picked feats" are the ones that should be discounted, is baffling to me. If a character is established of being the peak of human potential/ "next step in human evolution", it is these specific feats that help prove this to be true. Without these feats, this would not even be a discussion. There are two ways of interpreting this, and if he wasn't shown to be above peak human in terms of his abilities, then the "peak human" interpretation would definitely be universally accepted. These feats are the deciding factors as to whether he is the "next step in human evolution", or above peak human as many claim him to be.
I find it interesting that Marvel clearly defines "peak human", "enhanced human" and "superhuman", with Cap clearly being listed as peak human, yet his fans go to great lengths to argue he is more than that, based on a few feats where he was written as overpowered. Let me give you an analogy. When Batman kicked the spectre, it was not because he is capable of kicking the spectre, but because he was written as overpowered. that "feat" doesn't now redefine batman as being capable of kicking the spectre. Similarly, if a peak human was written as doing something an only an enhanced or sueprhuman should be able to do, it doesn't redefine what that character is capable of, we just have to accept a poorly written issue.
If he were capable of that all the time, and there were many examples of that, it would be a different story. But there are not, so it isn't. Do you understand?
- And the fact that healing powers were part of his initial powers even before many other writers got their hands on him to maybe "inflate his abilities", as you seem to be suggesting, also clearly proves that this man is not superhuman, but definitely the next stage of human evolution.
So he isn't superhuman, but he is more than human? Have a read of that and see if you don't notice the contradiction.
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