MuyJingo's forum posts

#1 Posted by MuyJingo (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think he hates Batman, but he certainly doesn't respect Batman.

Superman getting affected by Kryptonite was fine, and totally in line with the character. And he wasn't mind controlled, but Atom found a way to manipulate him. All of that happening was in line with the character and his flaws, knowledge, personality etc. I.e. none of it was out of character.

That isn't the case with Batman as written by Johns, who has unmasked in public, allowed Lex to pick pocket him and unmask his identity...., all of that is out of character because he is meant to be obsessively cautious and aware as much as he is possibly of all of his surroundings. He should have expected Luthor would suspect he is Batman for example.

#2 Posted by MuyJingo (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: Oh, yeah, I saw that. Not sure where Miller had read up to, but it sounds like he didn't exactly give it praise, he just didn't condemn it. In fact, saying it had the right spirit and that it was obviously about things personal the to e creators is kind of a way of being polite without really giving a least in my eyes.

#3 Posted by MuyJingo (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324 said:

@muyjingo: I think you're just hating on Snyder and capullo. This arc was amazing, and it wasn't so much of an origin story so much as his first year in Gotham. Zero year doesn't have to show the same thing as year one. Then people would just say its copying it. But zero year basically defined the new 52 batman and why he does what he does. This arc is not forgettable at all, and already has been mentioned many times in other bat series. I'm not seeing how this isn't an update to his origin, so much is different.

All year one did was show Gordon. Some cops. And batman. Zero year actually fleshed out the city more, showing actual regular citizens struggling and being affected by what's going on, and the way they rejoiced when the city was saved was great. Year one showed corruption with cops. Zery year showed it everywhere, even in Bruce's own family and company. Year one was actually quote bland.

Even frank miller praised it.

Well, you can call it hating, and you might be right although that seems like a strong way to put it. I've certainly disliked their work from the start.

As for what you say, well we obviously disagree, but I'll try to address some of your points to clarify why I disagree.

I agree, Zero Year doesn't have to show the same thing as Year One - indeed, it should strive to be it's own thing. The thing is, I disagree that Zero Year defined the New 52, inf act I don't think it had any impact at all. The first arc with the Red Hood didn't make any meaningful change to the story we know, except to make The Killing Joke less impactfull by having the Red Hood be not a patsy used by one gang of mobsters and turning it into a powerful criminal organization were every member has a red hood. Aside from creating and introducing the red hood gang, how did this help to define the character in the New 52? If this had been set in modern day or was seen in LotDK, would it be any different? I think not, because it was just an early adventure, not a formative early adventure.

I feel the same way for the subsequent two arcs. The arc with Doctor Death had loose ties to Riddler, but that didn't really add anything (i.e. Riddler was unnecessary to the plot) and the third was just a Batman vs Riddler story. The only touch that made it somewhat originy was that Batman had been out of it for a while, so Riddler had kept control for longer than normal. Take that away and again, there is nothing defining about the arc. Hence, I see it as forgettable.

Honestly, I think Zero Year fleshed out the villians more than the Batman. Look at what I wrote above, how it compares to Zero year. In Zero Year we have a good cop come to the most corrupt city in that universe, determined to be good and starting to realize that sometimes working outside of the law, or at least outside of the executive branch. At the same time we have Bruce who has just come back with all this training and money and desire to help, slowly realizing that something extra is needed. That whole arc is fantastic, and set the stage for Batman stories to this day.

Is Zero Year trying to do something similar? Perhaps not, so perhaps it's not fair to judge it in that way. But if Zero Year isn't trying to do something similar, then I have no idea what it's trying to do. To me, Batman and Gordon are the same characters at the beginning of the book as they were at the end, except for the brief nonsense with Bruce getting inspired by a damn hologram.

I think if you are so dismissive of Year One, you should really read it again. It isn't as basic as you seem to insist, while I haven't seen any good points to make me think Zero Year isn't exactly that basic.

Oh, and Zero Year is really only being referenced in other books Snyder writes. I haven't really noticed any reference to it in Detective Comics or Batman and Robin.

Do you have a quote to Miller praising it? I would be curious to read that.

#4 Posted by MuyJingo (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

@anjales: I barely even see Zero Year as a cohesive whole, and more 3 loosely connected stories from Bruce's early years. That's really all it is.

#5 Posted by MuyJingo (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

Every second page in Kevin Smith's attempt at a Batman comic.

#6 Edited by MuyJingo (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

@manwithoutshame said:

@fallschirmjager said:

Buccellato/Manapul > Snyder/Capullo

Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think they'd even claim that at this point.

The people who know, know it to be true.

Buccellato says he knew huge stories were coming out for Batman so he wanted to focus on smaller detective stories and that's how it'll be moving forward.

This...this made me so happy.

And thanks @k4tzm4an for all the coverage, I wasn't able to get tickets this year (lord I tried), and had a busy day of travel to day, so your recaps are just perfect for reading on my phone while on the go. Cheers :)

#7 Edited by MuyJingo (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

Both of these movies are absolutely terrible. It's amazing to me that either of them could be peoples favorite DCAU movies. I get liking them, but liking them above all the others ones? Wow. Dat human race huh.

#8 Edited by MuyJingo (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm just going to copy and paste my comments from Tony's review here, as I think they apply:

This entire arc has been forgettable, at least IMO. I'm glad it's over.

I know some people like it, but I can't see the appeal at all. I mean, this was such an amazing opportunity to update and improve upon Batman's origins...and instead we got something that was just mediocre.

I'm trying to judge it as it's own thing and not compare it to say, Year One, but even then....there are no memorable or stand out moments, and there really isn't anything that defines these adventures as Batman's origin. If these stories were not called Zero Year and were just flashbacks not given any special treatment, it wouldn't make a difference.

That I think, is the biggest flaw of Zero Year. Compare to Year One (dammit...), where you have a focus on Gordon just as much as Bruce. It slowly shows the corruption in the city at all levels, it shows the good men who are trying to figure out how to solve it, and finally it shows the revelation of a legend being born. Not a single hint of an aspect of that is present in Zero Year.

For as much praise as Snyder gets for "treating the city like a character", Year One fleshed out the city far, far more, by showing the effect on the characters who live there. Year One showed the city much better than Snyder has been able to, and it's much easier to see how everything that happened after followed sort of naturally after Year One. The same cannot be said for Zero Year.

I've been saying this from the start: get rid of Snyder, get rid of Capullo.

#9 Posted by MuyJingo (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

The most interesting thing to me is that the cowl looks soft, indicating he may be able to easily remove it and that it is tied to the cape....which is how it should be.

#10 Edited by MuyJingo (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely not. I'd bet my small fortune on it.

I elaborated on this more in another post, but there is nothing in Zero Year that defines the evolution of Bruce into Batman. The Zero Year stores could simple be some early adventures in LofDK. There is nothing particularly memorable about it.

For me, Year One has the moments of Bruce being inspired (which ZY tried to update and failed), confronting Falcone, showing the city from the perspective of Gordon, Batman escaping the SWAT...a bunch of amazing moments. Really, what comes to mind when you think of Zero Year, now that it's over?

What moments truly make you go wow, and that you are going to be remembering a decade from now? I can't think of a single one. That, to me, is why it won't be a classic. It's simply not that good.