Although I am looking forward to a modern Batman origin, it'll be disappointing if his world travels aren't explored more than they have been in the past. According to what Snyder has mentoined in interviews, this story will be very Gotham centric; which is fine. However, don't all his origins in the comics glance over his world training and go straight to Gotham? I think we deserve to see a young Bruce Wayne kicking ninja @$$ around/with an international cast! Like Detective Comics #0! :D
Mr_Wayne69's forum posts
Hopefully during Batman: Zero Year we get to see an entire reemergence of the martial arts world within the New 52.
@Walker696: You've made points that I take into consideration and fully agree with. However, your issue with fans using 'prep time' as an 'excuse', so to speak, for their favorite characters, this one being Batman, is an issue that you'll just have to accept, ignore, or live with because that is one of the key elements of Batman. Preparation. It always has been from day one. When Bruce Wayne lost his parents as a child he almost instantly began to think of a way to stop tragedies like that from occuring. He travels the globe in preparation for his mission, his ultimate goal. He doesn't prepare like a normal man, he goes beyond. Batman's character has become, by design, the most prepared man in the room. He's supposed to be viewed as the man who's (almost) 'unbeatable' once he's prepared for the situation (especially against non-enhanced or non-superpowered beings). That's why every character around him is shocked on the rare occasion he is defeated. Even in an unprepared, unpredictable, surprise encounter, his skill level is so high, so reliable, so without peer, that he's still prepared. Preperation is Batman and Batman is preperation. This is why fans of Batman act the way they do. Not all of them can properly articulate why they rally behind the Bat the way they do, but there's a reason behind the 'madness'. If that somehow bothers you, then hey, there's nothing that can be done about it. He's Batman. "The most dangerous man on Earth." -Superman
@Walker696: Not necessarily. Prep can be defined in many different ways. Prep can simply mean, you vs. John Doe and you know that John Doe loves using Jujitsu, so you avoid anything having to do with that in your encounter. Same thing with a team of heroes like X-Men taking on Juggernaut. They know that removing the helmet gives them the edge so the telepaths can do their thing. There's nothing wrong with preparation. It's something that should always be considered before a fight. Any real fighter knows that.
That's a nice suit.
What ever they do w/ the next suit they need to include:
- A cape that fully cloaks his body. There's a reason Batman allows the cape to cover his chest and front torso... to mask and hide what he's doing behind the cape while standing before an opponent.
- White eyes on the cowl to give it that classic menacing look.
- The way the mouth area is cut in the above pic is almost exactly what needs to be done.
Speaking of the voice, I think they should study the voice work of Kevin Conroy and Bruce Greenwood. They gave a naturally deep, intimidating, intelligent, and menacing gravitas to their Batman. To the actor playing Batman, it can be done with patience and professionalism.
I'm gonna break this down into 3 categories of victories for or against either party:
- Batman vs. Wolverine with no prep time- Wolverine wins. They're from 2 different universes, we can assume Bruce knows nothing about Logan (unless you wanna throw in some 'shark jump' writing i.e. "Batman has tech that scans other universes and he's studied Wolverine".... uh, no!). Wolverine's (over 100 years) experience, mutant ferocity, and killing machine design, make him the clear winner. That being said, Batman is smart enough to 'run, run... fight another day!' if Wolverine didn't kill him first. In a rematch, I would almost certainly give the victory to Batman. Which brings me to...
- Batman (w/ prep time) vs. Wolverine- Batman wins. Logic for (rematch) victory: same reasons that gave Wolverine his advantages would prove to be his disadvantages. His mutant ferocity (famously known as 'berserker barrage') would make him insanely sloppy to the brilliance that is Batman, causing that 100 years exp. (for all you RPG gamers... high five) to go flying out the window, as they say, which would leave the weapons that make him a killing machine (his adamantium skeleton and claws) exposed to the Bat-tech-magnetic weaponry at Batman's disposal, that I'm sure he'd have during the (next) match. Knowing how obsessive Bruce is, I wouldn't doubt that during this encounter he would use some sort of chemical Bat-weapon to make Wolverines healing factor go into overdrive as a distraction, heading towards the magnetic victory.
- The New 52 Batman vs. Wolverine- Wolverine wins. Why? I'm a huge Batman fan and being so I'm obligated as a fan to be honest about the character that I like (something unheard of). New 52 Batman ain't never faced anything like Wolverine. The closest might be that Court of Owls story line so far, even then Wolverine is a totally different animal (no pun intended).
Either way you look at it, it's difficult to conceive a plausible straight up victory for Batman against Wolverine. They've both grown into characters designed to win in their respective playing fields.
- One is designed to brilliantly and effectively neutralize and sustain a victory with almost no casualties (especially any by his hands).
- The other is the "best there is at what he does" and what he does is kill. He is a machine (almost literally thanks to the adamantium) designed to wipe out massive amounts of people, with almost unmatched efficiency. Even those of superhuman levels (he took on the Hulk people... and lived to brag about it, bub!).
As a Batman fan I wanna say "Batman wins... fatality!" BUT... I keep seeing "Snikt!" and sliced up batarangs lying in puddles of blood play out in my head...
@FatihBATMAN: Thanx for reading! I was hoping my "rant" wouldn't be over looked. Those were some very unbiased words that probably needed to be said about the question at hand and the characterization and representation of both characters.
I'm obviously a fan of Batman. That being said, logically speaking, either one of these phenomenal characters could acquire the victory over the other.
If we're talking New 52 Batman vs Cap then Cap wins because New 52 Batman lacks the experience necessary to take down Cap properly. It certainly wouldn't be easy because even before Bruce trekked the globe to find the means to strike fear into corruption, he was always brilliant. It takes a child at a level of brilliance never/rarely seen to want to become something of a Batman the way Bruce Wayne did. That being said, if New 52 Batman had a rematch with Cap, Cap would lose. There lies the skill of Batman. Never fight him twice. Better kill him if you win the first time you meet.
If we're ignoring continuity and reboots and just taking the characters at their prime, then it could go either way.
I'd like to take a moment to debunk, if you will, a few of the misconceptions about both characters:
Batman has only lost to one street-level non-meta/enhanced character (that I know of) in his early crime fighting career and that would be Bronze Tiger. He later had a rematch and fought him to a draw. That being said, over the years Batman has become the character who represents human beings as the one (dark) beacon of hope against the possible threat of super-powered beings. He's trained himself to stand among gods, aliens, space cops, and amazons. That being said, he's not supposed to lose to anyone without powers/enhanced abilities. That's his line of thinking and that's how the writers choose to portray him.
I understand that's not popular to the (few) people that don't like the character, but it is what it is.
Captain America represents the American dream of a man sacrificing himself for experimentation so his country can manufacture an answer to an evil threat. America loves the quick fix, the fast food life, the instant gratification, the info at our fingertips/iPhone/Google social network life. We've always been the country trying to stay ahead of technology or at least on par with it. It would make sense that an instant top notch human be "born" out of science and chosen to fight our wars. Sounds like a jab almost but I assure you, it isn't... because he also represents fighting spirit and will to win.
The thing about Cap that people always get wrong is his level of experience over Batman's. Cap fought in WWII and was cryogenically frozen then thawed out in modern times. If you add up his time during that war and his modern adventures you'd probably come up with the same amount of years that Batman had been crime fighting (pre New-52 at his prime). Even if Cap does have more time during modern adventures it's still not enough to consider it an advantage. Cap does not have more experience.
His shield isn't exactly an advantage. It sure isn't a disadvantage, however Batman could make it one. It's material is made of the best Marvel has to offer (vibramium and adamantium). Once Batman sees it's indestructible (something Bats would probably assume because why would someone walk around with a big @$$ shield if it wasn't hard to break) he'd take it out of the equation quick.
Another thing that people misunderstand: Caps war experience somehow being an advantage over Bats. Just because a government leader didn't declare Batman's battles and wars on crime (and intergalactic enemies I might add) as a declaration of war, doesn't mean they weren't "wars". I hope that can be understood.
This battle isn't like the Spartan vs samurai battle from that TV show Deadliest Warriors like someone mentioned earlier. Batman would be the equivalent to both of those warrior classes. No, this is a battle between two very different forms of human achievement:
- One had the desire to fight for his country when he didn't have the physical or mental capacity to do so. What he lacked in physical prowess or brains, he made up for with heart. The experiment was a success that pushed his country to victory and edged them on in the arms race during war.
- The other was a brilliant and gifted boy that had the natural ability to be anything or anyone in the world if he focused his attention to it. He could have been a world class athlete if he liked sports, a surgeon like his father, an engineer to further his family name and business foundation, an astronaut, a physicist, a gifted and desired socialite... instead, one faithful and tragic night caused a shift and a focus never seen in the young boys mind. He would become a crime fighter. With that he became either the best or among the elite in various amounts of human disciplines (and later on alien and mystical arts became something of knowledge for him). The boy traveled the globe, the boy became a young man, the man became one of the most brilliant and deadly to ever walk the planet through natural talent, natural brilliance, and world class training.
By design Batman is what Steve Rogers wishes he was before the experiment. Captain America is what Bruce Wayne could be if he sat down one afternoon and read notes from Ray Palmer, Micheal Holt, and the Miraclo formula that lead to its variant formula/drug called Venom, and created a 'super-soldier-serum' of his own (a bit of sarcasm, excuse me).
Interesting how Batman could actually be Cap if he truly desired, and Captain America had no shot at all at being a warrior like Batman without some experimental assistance...
People complain that Batman fanboys are 'crazed loons' but it's because some of the loons understand the advantage of Batman's brilliance. The man could be Captain America if that's what he chose to achieve. His brain is arguable to that of Reed Richards, Tony Stark, etc. so why would it be unbelievable that he could defeat Captain America? It could logically happen.
anyway, moving along...
...But Cap doesn't need to be Batman nor does Batman desire to use shortcuts to be like a Cap. It's apart of Batman's obsession, desire, and (unmatched) will to win. It's what makes them work as characters. So while myself and many others can talk all day about a 'Super Soldier serum victory', I'd rather tell you about why I don't believe Batman losing is something simple and why him winning is certainly just as plausible as Cap winning.