Looking good, boys.
MonsterStomp's forum posts
There are other categories like experience, tactical awareness, and training that I think they're more or less even on. Do you disagree with this basic analysis? I know it might seem like I've given Chris a clean sweep over Sam in skills, but stealth alone is a very valuable advantage, especially coupled with Sam's superior mobility, and it makes him an incredibly dangerous opponent for Chris Redfield.
Well considering that we both only really have forum knowledge on the opposition, I'd say its too early to tell exactly where each combatant stands in terms of advantages. But I'm sure we'll conclude that later on in the progression of this debate.
Stealth
However, Chris isn't helpless. He's actually extremely talented at stealth himself, although it isn't his MO like it is Sam's, but regardless, as far as I know Sam has never been able to successfully use his stealth against a character on Chris Redfield's level of skill. More often than not, I see Chris eventually noticing Sam's presence before the Splinter Cell has the chance to finish him off, and from there defeating him using his superior direct combat skills. I think you made a mistake in choosing the environment, having them fight in such a brightly lit area in the middle of the day basically cripples Sam since his whole skillset revolves around the darkness. His stealth isn't cover or camouflage based like a Solid Snake or an Agent 47, it's darkness and shadow based. Making the environment so brightly lit means Sam is basically going to have to fight Chris at his own game, and to be honest that should be a rather easy win for Chris. So for the sake of the debate, I'm just not going to press the fact that they're fighting out in the middle of the day. It's just something everybody else might want to keep in mind when they're deciding who really would win in a fight.
Refer to underline (1): That sort of logic goes both ways, because as far as I know, Redfield hasn't been able to successfully counter someone with Sam's level of skill (in terms of stealth).
Refer to underline (2): Fair point, but I'd also like to add line-of-sight. Sam isn't completely useless under broad daylight and has successfully utilized stealth in situations with little to no darkness or shadow coverage. Sam, even in a well lit area, can still avoid Chris' line-of-sight, which is something that should be considered in this situation. The distance coupled with the copious amounts of indoor/outdoor coverage is enough for Sam to disappear and map out a plan of attack. Not to mention that this is actually a CIA HQ where Sam literally started out his career, but for the sake of argument, that fact will be dismissed.
Just to strengthen this counter, I'd like to refer you to two videos where Sam underwent missions in broad daylight. Safehouse, where Sam basically infiltrated a police compound to extract person of interest (Kobin). Insurgent Stronghold, where Sam infiltrates a highly guarded stronghold during an investigation.
So now we have two highly trained soldiers hunting each other down. Chris might not be as highly trained in the art of stealth, but between his survival instincts and tactical skills, he can definitely keep up. I don't know who the most notable character Sam has used stealth against is, but keep in mind Chris was able to beat Albert Wesker by hiding and ambushing him. Not only is Wesker a superhuman, something that the Splinter Cell world lacks, but he's also the most highly trained character in the whole Resident Evil series. He was able to take on Tyrants and hordes of BOWs before even gaining his powers, and afterwards, between his physical power and superhuman senses, he's unlike anything Sam has ever had to face. Chris was completely outmatched by the guy in head-to-head combat, which isn't anything to be ashamed of since Albert is closer to Spider-Man tier, but by eluding him and turning out the lights, Chris was actually able to defeat him. I don't think Sam has anything in terms of strategy that can match this; despite being brutally beaten by Wesker in the cutscene before, Chris was able to escape his view and turn out the lights, then sneak around Wesker despite having almost no cover in the hangar besides the large platform right in the center, and tag him multiple times with firearms and even RPGs until he was sufficiently weakened to the point where he could be overdosed on his own serum.
Refer to underline (1): I don't think its overly important to point out that Sam hasn't faced superhuman foes. Stealth is basically a cheap-shot play, provided that a bullet in the head kills his target.
Refer to underline (2): Honestly, I don't see why Sam couldn't replicate that exact feat given the same stipulations as Chris had (knowledge, teamwork, weaponry). For starters, flicking off the generators while Sheva keeps Wesker at bay, then bombarding Wesker with cheap-shots isn't all that impressive. Forgive me if it seems like I'm downplaying the feat, but that's all we see there. I guess, overpowering a weakened Wesker takes somewhat of a superhuman effort, but that's about it.
Some people say it's too far fetched that Wesker wasn't able to keep track of Chris considering his superhuman speed, but that just makes the feat all the more impressive for Chris. He was able to run and escape Wesker's sight, then STAY out of sight. It's not as if Chris is slow, in fact he has a distinct advantage over Sam in terms of speed, which obviously helps a lot in making it from cover to cover and also escaping an opponent's sight. Physically, Chris is operating on a level close to Captain America. Not many characters are fast enough to chase a Bomber getting ready to take off down a runway and actually catch up to it. Sheva was chasing the Bomber too but she got left in the dust, despite being fast enough to dodge bullets, which really goes to show how much of a machine Chris really is.
Refer to underline (1): Again, you're missing context here for the voters too lazy to watch the videos you've put up. Wesker was preoccupied by Sheva.
Refer to underline (2): Eh, its impressive, but to say he was operating on Captain America's level when chasing it down is a little iffy for me. The Bomber was more or less rolling out to the runway before really putting on the gas.
Refer to underline (3): I fail to recognize how dodging bullets has anything to do with trying to chase down a plane, but I digress. Its not important.
So basically if Wesker couldn't find Chris, Sam is at least gonna have a hard time. And between Chris's tactical abilities and senses/instincts, that should give him enough time to locate Sam's position and fight him on even ground.
If Wesker couldn't find Chris due to being both preoccupied and not looking for him, Sam is going to have a hard time? I don't think so. The battlefield is big enough, I think more often than not, Sam will get the drop of Chris before Chris gets the drop on Sam. Outsmarting a superhuman due to teamwork and basic stealth tactics isn't exactly definitive when Sam has a plethora of stealth feats that top this. One of which comes to mind takes place during the Abandoned Mill infiltration. Sam just suffered a lethal dose of VX nerve agent and prolonged its deadly effects to impossible lengths before Briggs injected him with atropine. Yet even when Grimm states that Sam will need more medical attention if he wants to make a full recovery, Sam and Briggs fight off waves of special forces before evacuation.
Loading Video...
Open Conflict
In a head to head conflict, I don't see Sam standing much of a chance at all. The proof is in their methods; Sam NEEDS stealth to take on these armies of mercenaries and soldiers, but Chris only uses stealth when the situation calls for it. Against the armies of Majini and J'avo from RE5 and 6, who in addition to possessing superhuman strength and endurance were also exceptionally trained soldiers, Chris can solo them in firefights.
I agree that stealth is Sam's prime directive, but he is far (and I mean FAR) from incompetent when it comes to open conflict, and I'm glad you brought this subject up. It allows me to show off some of Sam's skill. I can flip through countless showings that display Sam's skill in firefights but instead of flooding the thread with videos, I'd rather post what's most impressive. One of his most impressive feats took place in Splinter Cell Conviction within a mission called Third Echelon HQ. Now let me stop for a minute and talk of the stature that Splinter Cell's possess.
Yet..
That's right. These agents aren't your everyday, run of the mill special forces. These guys are elite lone operatives that undergo missions that are deemed too critical for anyone else. They are essentially the U.S governments weapon against other nations. Yet, Sam treats them like nothing (both shown in game and stated in the novels).
Loading Video...
So Chris very much has peak human reflexes, and can likely sidestep a bullet or two before Sam manages to hit him. However, since Sam is NOT a bullet timer, Chris's first shot is likely to end the match.
Unless Chris has an impressive display of accuracy feats (namely the ones that don't involve him cheap-shotting a superhuman that isn't aware of his presence), I'm not convinced that he can one-shot Sam. First of all, Sam is very acrobatic. He's avoided bullets in the past by using his skill in environmental traversal, which certainly makes for a harder target to hit, and its not like he soaks bullets on the regular either. Secondly, Sam's Kevlar is likely to soak a few bullets before he becomes a crippled target. So those are 2 out of 3 factors that have helped Sam survive against overwhelming odds.
If the match were to come down to close quarters, I'm confident Chris would still win without much trouble. Sam is a master of Krav Maga, but Chris is a master of at least seven or eight martial arts styles, including Ninjutsu, taekwondo, judo, muai thai, wrestling, Karate, boxing, and maybe kickboxing (yes boxing and kickboxing are separate and both highly efficient styles). Coupled with his insane strength, if Sam tried to fist fight Chris, I see Chris parrying his first strike and then destroying Sam's body with one strike. Not to underestimate Fisher, but Chris's punches are... devastating. They're capable of sending lesser Majinis flying and bringing the super monsters like JJ to his knees with a single strike.
Refer to underline (1): Krav Maga actually combines elements of Eastern disciplines, such as karate, judo, kung fu and boxing. The style is down and dirty. The whole idea is to both defend yourself and do as much damage to your opponent as quickly as you can. The style is banned in nearly all forms of competitive sports. Sam is not only a master of this form, he has both impressed and taught his instuctor some new things.
Not only that, but Sam is known to utilize a karambit for close encounters.
Refer to underline (2): They are devastating hits, but aside from a player doing that for gameplay/entertainment purposes, has Chris actually performed these punches in the storyline? Because as it stands, that'd be the equivalence to me putting up a kill-count montage in attempts of displaying Sam's brutal attacks.
Regardless, this is all assuming if Chris can turn this into his field of play. The location is fairly huge, Sam is the superior at stealth and as you said, they're pretty much on equal terms when it comes to experience, tactical awareness, and training.
@ccraft said:
@those_eyes: Don't make me have to do this again C_C
How many tabs you need, bruh?
Log in to comment