MonkeyToe's forum posts

#1 Edited by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:


Reread the first issue. Power girl and Mr. T's friend talk about race and the fact that Mr. T is dating a white woman. Also, Mr. T. makes a joke about his race in the context of perceived racism. Blackness shows up in later issues as well. if it were written better like the 1993 Static series, it wouldn't have bothered me as much.

I did a search for the figures and couldn't find them again.

Cable became popular when the only mecahnial part of his face was his eye (or is it just psychic?). His half-face is a recent development due to his death and will be retconned--believe me.

Spawn and Deadpool wear full face masks. What's your point? If Cyborg could hide his face plate then it wouldn't be as big of a deal. Look at Swamp Thing or Hulk. Both have monstrous appearances but can become normal looking. It silly that Cyborg can't--especially with Metallo running around.

Not racist just racially insensitive And you don't need to agree with my hypothesis. I don't care. Just like I don't care if some people believe in creationism or fairies. You won't see what you don't want to see. You can stick your head in the dirt again.

I'll have to go back and check it out.

That doesn't change the fact that what you find as 'racially insensitive' is based on your opinion where as the belief in creationism and fairies belies an argument of facts, of which you have none that Cyborg is a racially insensitive character.

But in your terms; You see what you want to see I guess, just like the people who believe the moon landing was faked or that there was a second shooter was on the grassy knoll. Some people just need something to shake their fist at I guess.

#2 Edited by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

@EdBlank said:

@MonkeyToe: I don't think you're reading for comprehension. I never said a Nazi working at DC made Cyborg into a weird looking character to purposefully hurt the Black race. Let me try again: "Hey let's put a Black guy on the JL for the sake of diversity" "Cool, which one?" okay right here they had a chance to give a black charater some shine that no solo book could. If [whoever] is on JL then they get to ride along with Super and Bats to stardom. At that point, said character could even possibly go mainstream in the same way as the big names and become more than just a comic character, he could become an icon (like Super or Bats... not as huge but youknowhamsayin). They could have used Mr T, they could have used Stewart, they could have used any number of charaters but for them to choose Cyborg automatically slows him down in the public's eye. Robocop was cool but c'mon, how many times can he say "drop it" and do the slo mo robot walk. To really make a super hero into a real "character" he has to have a girlfriend and all the other square s*** on the side so that people can relate. A dude like Spawn with a demon face can make some noise, but it only goes so far. It was a good opportunity to push a black character (it that was their goal) and they chose one without legs (metaphorically). On to your other point: it is absolutely racist to assume that I can't swim because I'm black. I swam a half mile this morning and every week day morning. I used to swim a mile but I cut back distance to focus on speed. That is the whole problem with racism. You ASSUME something about me because of my race and you or I may miss out on opportunities becuase you wouldn't even think to ask me to participate in your swimming event. Every single American is racist becuase we all think this way. Black people hold racist ideas about THEMSELVES. Women look down on THEMSELVES in ways because society does. The word you were trying to describe is "discrimination" As a bunch of racists, we have to try our best not to discriminate on people based on our racist outlook. So if you're hosting a triathlon, you should probably at least ask the black guy if he's interested cause he just might be able to swim. Thinking he can't swim=racist. Not inviting him anyway=discrimination.

On your first point: I never said you said any of that. The topic of this thread is how Cyborg is demeaning to African Americans because it portrays him as 'less than human'. All the other stuff you are saying about Cyborg not being a strong character is your opinion and isn't supported by fact or precedence, I was merely relating it to the topic of this thread.

On your second point: You're just flat out wrong there. I think you need to look up the term racism and understand what a stereotype is. The thought isn't what makes a person a racist, it's their actions. I can see a black man on the street and think to myself "I wonder if he can swim," without it being racist (I'm not saying that I do, mind you, just using it as an example). This is a stereotype that has been perpetuated by the American culture usually based on historical context or actual statistics. It is obvious to most logical thinkers that a black man CAN in fact swim when they learn how, but that doesn't change the fact that, statistically speaking in some areas, there are far less black youth that actually know how to swim because they either haven't been given the opportunity to learn how.

Now, when I am the coach of an Olympic swim team and I refuse to let a black man try out for my team because he is black and because I think black people can't swim (Again, I DON'T think that). THIS IS RACISM. Likewise, if a white man approaches a group of black friends playing basketball and asks to play, the black players may think "This white guy can't play ball!" but the second they actually let the white man play the game with them, they exhibit the fact that they are NOT racist. Racism REQUIRES the act of believing that a race is inferior to another or hating an individual based on race alone. This is the DEFINITION of racism. And racism is not a subtle beast.

PREJUDICE on the other hand is far subtler and can be influenced by negative stereotypes, but PREJUDICE is not the same as RACISM either.

#3 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

I am a new reader and I don't have any problem grasping the concept of Earth-2 so far. From what I see, the only characters they are mentioning from Earth-2 are Power Girl and Huntress. If these two characters only exist on Earth-2 and not Earth-1, where is the confusion? 2 out of 52 titles dealing with an alternate universe seems plenty gradual to me, it's not like we have this entire new group of heroes to keep track of. And even if we do get that in April, we'll at least have the handy label "EARTH 2" written right on the comic book.

Not confused at all.

#4 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

Mister Terrific the character had a much better chance at a solo than Cyborg, but the writer (who happens to be Black) could not stop focusing on his race and could not for the life of him write a good story. And the art was shotty. That's why Mr. T failed-not because he was good looking. You didn't disprove anything with your example.

It would be more difficult for Cyborg to have a civilian life, which makes him more difficult to relate to--that's a barrier for any writer. The most popular characters are the ones people graft themselves onto or the characters people want to be (Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, Green Lantern). Who wants to be a guy with a half-face?

Finally, if you look at the sales numbers for teen titans action figures when the cartoon came out, the Cyborg figure sold the least--by a lot. I worked at a target, and you couldn't give his toys away. Little kids care more about looks than you give them credit for (Eww, Rachel is fat. Bobby is the booger boy).

Finally, saying that talking about race is what keeps racism alive is the dumbest thing. From the time we are young we can see the physical and cultural distinctions among people. Humans also try to simplify things to make them better to understand--if he did this, then this other person must be similar for so and so reason. The best way to tackle racism--which is still institutionalized in our society--as any sociologist would tell you--is to talk and educate people about it.

-Cap

We must have been reading different Mister T books because I don't feel the comic was at all focused on his race, but maybe I wasn't engaged in the story enough.

Do you have the link to prove your point on the action figures? Likewise there are other popular characters who are disfigured and monstrous, like Cable (half machine face), Deadpool, and (correct me if I am wrong here) Spawn. It just seems silly to me to say that a character can't be successful because he doesn't have a normal face.

But neither of those points detract from the discussion on this thread that the portrayal of Cyborg is racist because it denotes him as an African American who is less than human, which is a hypothesis that I disagree with and reject.

#5 Edited by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

@EdBlank said:

I think Chronicle is the best movie I've ever seen. Why did the Black guy die first? Another question: why is there always the one Black guy in horror movies and why does he always die first? They put him in the movie explicitly for the purpose of killing him first. There's no big reason it's just a subliminal reminder or some kind of subconscious symbol. It's weird. I don't really know why, but they do that s*** ALL THE TIME. As far as Black Luke Sywalker: every black movie is about slavery and poverty. There is no black LOTR or Matrix. If they did make an all black movie in space I guarantee they would be fighing against an intergalactic "The Man" and have space 40s. Why? That's what we (Americans, Earthlings) think about black people. That's what I'm trying to hip y'all to: it's a subtle veneer that overlays all our interactions. It's kind of benign but it's annoying. Imagine you were bald and everything everyone said to you started out with "I knew this bald guy once" or "They have a new baldness cure I read about" you'd be like "Okay! Enough with the bald s***." Back to Cyborg: He can never become a reporter and just have a regular life cause half his face is metal, therefore an ongoing solo book would be super tough. Not saying that they did this to purposely deny Borg a solo, just that a black dude with a regular face would be able to go further.

Another thing, it is important to note that there is a very real difference between racism and stereotyping. Writing a black character who comes from the ghetto is NOT racist. Having a black character die in a horror or adventure movie is NOT racist. I'm not racist if I look at a black man and say, "I bet that dude has a huge wang," or, "I wonder if that black guy can swim." Likewise I don't think an African American is racist if he looks at me and says, "I bet that white boy can't dance," or "Bet he can't play basketball either," (they'd be right by the way. I can do neither of these things). These are STEREOTYPES not examples of racism. Racism is the inherit belief that your collective race is better than any other and that this superiority constitutes discrimination or elimination. The KKK are racist. The Black Panthers are racist. The Nazis are racist. I think there is quite a cosmically huge difference between these racist movements and the writers at DC.

Stereotyping is a cultural surety and it has existed since cultures first began to intermingle and we will never truly be rid of it, but it is not racism.

#6 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

@EdBlank said:

I think Chronicle is the best movie I've ever seen. Why did the Black guy die first? Another question: why is there always the one Black guy in horror movies and why does he always die first? They put him in the movie explicitly for the purpose of killing him first. There's no big reason it's just a subliminal reminder or some kind of subconscious symbol. It's weird. I don't really know why, but they do that s*** ALL THE TIME. As far as Black Luke Sywalker: every black movie is about slavery and poverty. There is no black LOTR or Matrix. If they did make an all black movie in space I guarantee they would be fighing against an intergalactic "The Man" and have space 40s. Why? That's what we (Americans, Earthlings) think about black people. That's what I'm trying to hip y'all to: it's a subtle veneer that overlays all our interactions. It's kind of benign but it's annoying. Imagine you were bald and everything everyone said to you started out with "I knew this bald guy once" or "They have a new baldness cure I read about" you'd be like "Okay! Enough with the bald s***." Back to Cyborg: He can never become a reporter and just have a regular life cause half his face is metal, therefore an ongoing solo book would be super tough. Not saying that they did this to purposely deny Borg a solo, just that a black dude with a regular face would be able to go further.

Yeah! That must be why Mister Terrific is doing so well... oh wait... nevermind. I'm not saying that Cyborg or Mister Terrific have anything to do with racism, just disproving your point. Cyborg has been a popular character for a long time, even in the Teen Titans cartoon, and, guess what, his face is half metal. That is his character. I'm not saying that Racism DOESN'T exist either. I have family in the deep south who are frankly downright racist and it pisses me off to know end, but seeing it everywhere is taking it to a new extreme. You may think that Racism exists in a subtle form everywhere, but that is your opinion, not universal fact, and relating it to characters in a fictitious universe is like relating violence in video games to the production of serial killers.

#7 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

What made this such a bad arc for everyone?

#8 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

@redleigh86 said:

@MonkeyToe said:

@redleigh86 said:

@MonkeyToe said:

In the last episode of the season they teased about the fall of the 11th Doctor. When do you think that is going to be and who would you like to see take Matt Smith's place? Recommend anyone you want!

I haven't watched the last episode since it aired, but wasn't that whole thing referring to what happened with River shooting him, and time collapsing, all of which they fixed with Robo-Doctor dying in his place? "Silence will fall" is a storyline that's ended, I'm pretty sure. That was what the season finale was all about... And Matt's said and Moffat's said that 11 is going to be around for a while.

I'm talking about the Prophecy they mention at the end of the episode *Spoiler Alert!* “On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the 11th, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer, a Question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered”

Ohhh, well I personally don't think that refers to his physical death. The question that mustn't be answered is "Doctor who?" so I think it refers to his position and history in Gallifrey.

Matter of opinion then I suppose. Of course Death and Regeneration are two different things, hence the title of the thread.

#9 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

@redleigh86 said:

@MonkeyToe said:

In the last episode of the season they teased about the fall of the 11th Doctor. When do you think that is going to be and who would you like to see take Matt Smith's place? Recommend anyone you want!

I haven't watched the last episode since it aired, but wasn't that whole thing referring to what happened with River shooting him, and time collapsing, all of which they fixed with Robo-Doctor dying in his place? "Silence will fall" is a storyline that's ended, I'm pretty sure. That was what the season finale was all about... And Matt's said and Moffat's said that 11 is going to be around for a while.

I'm talking about the Prophecy they mention at the end of the episode *Spoiler Alert!* “On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the 11th, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer, a Question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered”

#10 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

In the last episode of the season they teased about the fall of the 11th Doctor. When do you think that is going to be and who would you like to see take Matt Smith's place? Recommend anyone you want!