Mediant

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The Problem with Starfire

By Mediant 43 Comments

Browsing the great wide internet and the Vine in particular, I've discovered a lot of hate for Starfire. Personally, I like the character. Let me just get that out there before I get too deeply into all this. This is not a piece about defending the character, though. There are some problems with the character that her writers and editors need to address.  I think that most (some?) of the hatred aimed at the character can be fixed. This blog is about identifying and working through the problems to find sollutions that will result in a more solid and likable character.
 
  Starfire is an a both a fierce and fiery  Tamaranean warrior and a fun loving and uninhibited woman. I will freely admit that I find the whole, sort of naive,  "I do not understand your Earth ways" alien bit endearing-- on just about any character. People have been doing that shtick for years in all the various writing mediums.  I think what sets Starfire apart for people is her sexualized nature. She's sexy, draws power from the sun through her skin (thus is often scantily clad), and has a power that works via physical contact with others (which she chooses to activate often times with a kiss). Not only does she possess these titillating aspects, but she seems either only peripherally concerned with or mostly oblivious to them. She's basically a hot, naive, foreign girl.
 
This brings me to what I believe the are two real issues with the character. Even if you accept (or like) the character's traits, there's the issue of how long she's been around. Most immigrants-- be they human or alien-- eventually become naturalized. Whether you're talking real world time or fictional time, Starfire has been around for years and years. She should be adjusted to the customs of Earth. Obviously this clashes with her a bit of her core personality. Without her naivety and the afore mentioned  "I do not understand your Earth ways" bit, Starfire isn't quite the same character. The character has, unfortunately, been written into a situation where the simple passage of time will fundamentally change  what is one of her most defining traits.  

Starfire by the Pool
 That first problem leads to the second: Starfire hasn't really grown any definite personality traits since her inception. She needs to develop more substance-- or have what she does have more fleshed out. There needs to be more to her character to focus on. If something new isn't introduced, then her Tamaranean warrior aspects needs to come to greater prominence. I feel like they've left her with enough substance to stand up in a team book, but they need to expand her so she can stand on her own. 
I believe both of these issues could be fixed if a good team of creators took the character and developed her further. She could be a much stronger (in the sense of characterization rather than power) character if they expanded on her. This solution comes with its own problem however. Starfire needs to retain who she is as a character even as they change her. 
 
That naive quality may just have to straight up be removed from her. It isn't believable that after all this time she wouldn't be yet naturalized. Her naturalization could lead to its own plot points though: Forcing her to reconcile her cultural identities and the differences between them. This would give the character a little more maturity and somewhere to build off.
 
Ultimately, people who just hate the character will probably never change their opinions. Many people seem to feel that she's just some brainless bimbo, but I think some character development could go a long way towards changing this opinion and strengthening the character as a whole. I'm positive a balance can be found that allows Kori to keep the aspects that make her unique, while further developing the character-- even if that means some minor traits are left by the wayside.
43 Comments
43 Comments
Edited by cbishop

As Kory's part of the 1980's New Teen Titans, I have nothing but love for her, but I think that people line up to hate her, partly because of her sensuality.  Starfire was designed to be physically/ visually appealing.  I think as a female comics audience has become bigger over the last fifteen years, they have looked at Starfire and scoffed at male fans who love her.   ...And y'know, a naked Starfire by the pool is clearly pandering to the lowest common denominator of the male comic audience, so to a degree, they're right to scoff.
 
Then there's the hussy factor.  Not that she's characterized as a hussy, but the fact that Dick Grayson was with Kory meant that he wasn't with Barbara Gordon, so who does that hussy think she is?  So really, I'm saying that thanks to later characterization in Birds of Prey and Nightwing, a retroactive loyalty to Barbara Gordon has made newer fans (fans who came after the 80's NTT series) dislike Starfire. 
 
The one thing I dislike about Starfire today is that she's been bounced around from team-to-team in recent years.  Why she would be stuck with the Young Justice kids on the newer Teen Titans, instead of with the 80's group in the Outsiders/Titans, is mystifying to me (but they did that to Cyborg, Raven and Beast Boy too).  Later she was bounced to the JLA, wasn't she?  And then to living with Animal Man's family?  What the heck?  Some things just shouldn't be messed with, and Starfire should be with the older Titans.

Posted by Mediant
@cbishop said:
"...Then there's the hussy factor.  Not that she's characterized as a hussy, but the fact that Dick Grayson was with Kory meant that he wasn't with Barbara Gordon, so who does that hussy think she is?  So really, I'm saying that thanks to later characterization in Birds of Prey and Nightwing, a retroactive loyalty to Barbara Gordon has made newer fans (fans who came after the 80's NTT series) dislike Starfire... "
There's definitely a group of people within Barbara Gordon's fans that seem to dislike Starfire primarily because of her relationship with Dick Grayson. A similar phenomenon to what has happened with Jean Grey fans and Emma Frost.
Posted by Amegashita
@cbishop said:
"Then there's the hussy factor.  Not that she's characterized as a hussy, but the fact that Dick Grayson was with Kory meant that he wasn't with Barbara Gordon, so who does that hussy think she is?  So really, I'm saying that thanks to later characterization in Birds of Prey and Nightwing, a retroactive loyalty to Barbara Gordon has made newer fans (fans who came after the 80's NTT series) dislike Starfire."
  This pretty much sums up a lot of feelings about Starfire.
Posted by Sinestro2828
@Mediant:    I actually like Starfire/Dick Grayson better than Barbara/Dick, I just like them better as a couple and they've been through so much together as Titans, plus Barb has her own thing going on with the Birds of Prey and Dick will probably go back to being Nightwing now that Bruce is returning to Gotham (its my hope he and Starfire will get back together somehow).
Posted by Sinestro2828

I love Starfire and find her to be one of DC's more interesting female characters (more so than Wonder Woman or Powergirl).  I'd like to see her and Dick Grayson back together to be honest, and I like her personality and character, she says whats on her mind and doesn't hide what she truly thinks and feels (plus she has some awesome powers and kickass alien martial arts skills that I'd like to see her showcase more often).
 
She's currently off in space with R.E.B.E.L.S. I think, but since Brainiac 2 is really a creep I hear I suspect she'll leave that group soon enough, and when that happens I think it would be cool if she either....
 
1)  Became a green lantern 
 
or 
 
2)  Returned to earth to teach and lead the new generation of Titans like she and Cyborg were doing before, I honestly don't think kids should be leading other kids into battle, lol
 
At any rate, I'd like to see more of her in DC and playing bigger roles, she's just such a cool character and deserves more respect.

Posted by Mediant
@Sinestro2828 said:
" ... Dick will probably go back to being Nightwing now that Bruce is returning to Gotham (its my hope he and Starfire will get back together somehow)... "
As far as I've heard over the last week, Dick will remain Batman and Bruce will also become Batman again. The difference being that Bruce will focus on an international approach and Dick will stay local. 
 
@Sinestro2828 said:
"...1)  Became a green lantern   or   2)  Returned to earth to teach and lead the new generation of Titans like she and Cyborg were doing before, I honestly don't think kids should be leading other kids into battle, lol  At any rate, I'd like to see more of her in DC and playing bigger roles, she's just such a cool character and deserves more respect. "
Green Lantern might fit, but i think it'd be more interesting to see Star Sapphire Starfire. And (I know some people would hate this) they could tie it into the perpetual limbo of her relationship with Dick. She's already got the color scheme going on. XD 
More likely, she would return to something with the Titans. That could work too, but I just want them to introduce new elements or expanding her current ones (see: her Tamaranean heritage). Whatever they do, it needs to be more than business as usual.
Posted by Sinestro2828
@Mediant:    So there's gonna be TWO Batmen?  lol, well, we'll see how long that lasts (I'd rather see Bruce be Batman and Dick be Nightwing again than see them try to both be the Bat, ya know Joker is bound to notice there's two of em fluttering around XD)
 
And I agree that whatever Starfire ends up doing they need to expand on her character and delve more into her alien heritage and fighting arts, she's supposed to be skilled in all sorts of alien combat techniques afterall....And the Titans really need a leader who's not being weighed down by teen drama and hold grudges against the teammates (like Wonder Girl).
 
P.S. I too could see her as a Star Sapphire but I can't see DC making a Star Sapphire solo series, plus as a green lantern she could display her strength of will more often and mingle with other great green lantern characters (we have four human green lanterns, we need more well known alien characters to add to the roster)
Posted by JCJQLB

I HATE HER and that won't change!

Posted by Jake Fury
@JCJQLB:
What did she do to you?? :P
Posted by JCJQLB
@Jake Fury: 2 words... Barbara Gordon!
Posted by Jake Fury
@JCJQLB:
Ohhhh...so....you're pro-Barbs/anti-Starfire because of Grayson??  
 
Posted by JCJQLB
@Jake Fury: No! I just like Babs... I hope someday Dick will date Jesse Chambers again!
Posted by Jake Fury
@JCJQLB:
Ahhhh...I love Babs too. But I like Starfire too.  
Posted by JCJQLB
@Jake Fury: I don't dislike Starfire but... She's a little b!7ch!
Posted by Jake Fury
@JCJQLB:
She's just a super horny alien chick.
Posted by JCJQLB
@Jake Fury: Sure...
Posted by Jake Fury
@JCJQLB:
It's true. She can't help it. :p
Posted by ChadwickDavis
Actually I have always been 50/50 with Starfire  
 
On one hand she is the warrior from another planet with a lot of power and fighting skill that I can respect . 
 
On the other hand she has proven on more than one occasion to be extraterestrial fan service/ backstabbing, selfish, , superppowered psycho B!^<# (pardon my language).  
She sent her "friends" across the universe to help her fight an intergalactic war against an enemy who was attacking her, when in reality she was instigating the fight because she had a personal score to settle. She constantly picks her fights with all of her teammates except donna and Dick (the latter of whom she is usually sleeping with.) All in all she has yet to show me anything that shows that she has any respect for herself or her friends and i believe her psychologist worded it best when she told starfire that she continually repeats a cycle of slavery and escape.  
 
There is a lot of room for her to grow as a character but all in all I dont hate her, I pity her she has no dignity.     
Posted by Mediant
@ChadwickDavis: When it comes to fictional characters I just can't muster up feelings as strong as respect or pity for them. They're just characters. The best I can do if like or dislike them and provide what I do or don't enjoy about them as characters-- as byproducts of a writer's imagination.  
 
I enjoy characters for their good and evil aspects equally, so them wronging someone doesn't really factor into my entertainment.
What matters more to me is the character's actions staying in character and evidencing layers, depth, and a palpable personality.  I like Superman for being a virtuous beacon of hope and justice, just as I like Larfleeze for being a simple and single minded creature of avarice. So whether or not Starfire acts in a 'good' manner doesn't really have any bearing on my enjoyment of the character.
Posted by IsabellaRoth

I hate her.And yes..she is too sexual. He is using Adam (well, he is doing the same) but the point is...she doesnt valorate to sleep with someone so much. She doesnt valorate her body...lately. A Batman...cant be with someone like her. Dick needs someone more seriousness. Bruce was/is with Talia..and sometimes with Catwoman. Can we even compare them with Starfire???HAHAHAHAHAHA. I better liked Dick with Raven (If we talk about Teen Titans/Titans) But really I would like to see him with..NO ONE! He should do the same as Bruce. Be a single hot guy who sometimes has kids and combates the baddies =)

Posted by Primmaster64

eh?

Posted by Mediant
@IsabellaRoth: ... what?
Posted by Amegashita
@IsabellaRoth said:
"I hate her.And yes..she is too sexual. He is using Adam (well, he is doing the same) but the point is...she doesnt valorate to sleep with someone so much. She doesnt valorate her body...lately. A Batman...cant be with someone like her. Dick needs someone more seriousness. Bruce was/is with Talia..and sometimes with Catwoman. Can we even compare them with Starfire???HAHAHAHAHAHA. I better liked Dick with Raven (If we talk about Teen Titans/Titans) But really I would like to see him with..NO ONE! He should do the same as Bruce. Be a single hot guy who sometimes has kids and combates the baddies =) "

  0.0 What now?
Posted by kitsuneconundrum

a character that really needs an update.

Edited by IsabellaRoth
@Amegashita:   @Primmaster64:  @Primmaster64:  What, what? Sorry If I had tOo many grammar mistakes. Is not my language. I just don´t like her. There are too many better girls for Dick. But I dont like her just because of Grayson....I dont like her for a list of things...a long list!...It is just an opinion guys,.. =D
Posted by Amegashita
@IsabellaRoth:  Nothing wrong with your opinion, I just got lost along the way of what you were trying to say, specifically at the part where you mentioned Dick/ Raven.  Lol. 
 
  Your opinion is yours so Your allowed to it, I just got confused, thats all.  You don't like Starfire, I hate Stephanie Brown =P
Posted by DEGRAAF

I actually like Starfire as a character. I think the naive thing was great but as stated that gap should have closed considerably between her ways and the ways of people on earth. I think she would still be a great character even with out being naive, the problem(s) i see with her is that although she comes from a Warrior race or whatever. The only time i ever even consider her a warrior is when she fights along the Titans, i have no back memory or see any sign or her being a warrior other than when she is actually fighting. When i think of a female warrior i think of WW or PG. Hell, some times i even think or Kory's sister, but never her. She is to playful and dim- whitted to be a warrior. Im not gonna lie either, i like her scantly clad outfit that might as well be nothing at all but all the members of the EL family tree get there powers from the sun as well to super charge their cells and they dont have to wear 2" luggage straps to accomplish absorbing the yellow rays. 
 
I think what they are doing with her now is good for her, she is powerful enough to fight across the universe. It gets her away from Dick. Until they can show that both love birds have completely moved on from one another she needs to stay away and find her self. I think she should be teamed up with Power Girl. I think Karen Starr could teach her alot. They are both warriors from another planet and both seem to be out of place. I think they should team up and fight crime across america (as well as on near by planets), popping up in other books as well. Kory seems to playful and care free to be a warrior princess and Karen always seemed like she had a Kryptonian stick up her butt. 
 
Kory needs to stay away from any sexual encounters with men while Powergirl needs to find a man for a serious relationship(i actually would like to see her try and date Magog). Also im sure its not just me but IMO they need to get any character under the age of 35 out of the JSA. I like most of the JSA stories but to me it feels like that team is an elephant grave yard, superheroes go there bc there is someone better out there doing the same thing with the same powers. It's like they go there and just wait to die but its like they are in a time paradox where no matter how old you are (Jay Garrick, Allen Scott, Wild Cat). Most of the young characters aren't even second rate heroes any way. They are usually 3rd or 4th rate. They would be better off taking the young'ns from JSA and turning them in to a new Teen hero team. They could even be commanded by Powergirl, like a training camp for super heroes. 
  
Sorry kinda got off on a tangent there. 
Posted by Primmaster64
@IsabellaRoth: lol!
Posted by Mediant
@DEGRAAF: Even if you veered off on a bit of a tangent I'm glad to see someone gave the topic more than a moment's thought. 
Personally, I don't want Kory to lose her playful characteristics. I really like that she has that sort of personality, but still is a warrior (in battle). I feel like I see too many all or nothing character types. I don't feel that warrior always have to be dire and serious.
Posted by Primmaster64

Maybe she should hook up with Jason

Posted by DEGRAAF
@Mediant:
No, i like her playful character and they could even explain it like she really doesnt like war she is just a natural born warrior, she looks for the good in all life and situations. I agree there are to many people that are all or nothing but i think that is because thats how most people are in real life.
Posted by Video_Martian

Notice that most of the girls here hate Starfire WAY more than the guys do ;) lol! 
 
but yeah, I've always liked Starfire and I personally don't see anything wrong with the character =D

Posted by Mediant
@mr.obvious: You don't see any problems with the character? I go over a few big ones that need work in the OP.
Edited by IsabellaRoth
@mr.obvious: Men...frequently like this kind of characters just because almost every single comic where is Starfire we can see her butt, breasts and more and more of her orange skin.  
I love her in REBELS. "FIGHTING" (HAHAHAHA) IN THE space. Is great! Perhaps she will do what she does better than fight. Do you know what I am talking about? Yeah, she (probably) will fuck a Green latern or something like that. =D 
 
lol. Sorry I like the type of heroes like..Cassandra Cain, Steph,Raven,Ravenger....she is not my type...but please don´t hate me! haha
Posted by greenenvy

Fuck you people who hate erotic characters! I like them. We barely have those kinds of comic characters that represent so much sexuality. Its about being proud of the body without being too shy so there is nothing to hide. There are characters that can be erotic as hell and have a good story the same time. 

Posted by andrea_mendoza1997
@JCJQLB:  Im with ya at this 100%  jesse should date dick again and barbs is pretty cool u have to admitt starfire is ok but as he said a little mindless and it seems like she does this on purpose to draw attention but blame the writers for that
Edited by Amegashita
@greenenvy:  Censor your post, man!
Posted by davidkenneth
@Mediant:
This is a little late but which Countdown To Adventure is the one with Kory by the pool.
Posted by Mediant
@davidkenneth: I've no idea
Posted by Komandr

In my opinion blackfire and her could go a different way now that blackfire does not help kill her people.

Posted by Atarius

I have to agree with the naturalization idea of a character like Starfire. But wouldn't that same life change apply to everyone as they age? I think it's important to the narrative to suspend natural time progression to preserve their core personality traits. 
 
Though it's important to keep them current and relevant. I think you could at least have her more comfortable with human customs but not relate to them on the same level. Sort of like Data from Star Trek. I think it's possible to have a character maintain a naivety and still fit in. Also worth noting, despite the naturalization of immigrants to a new host country they still retain their culture and never completely abandon their pattern of thought or ways of life and part of that is behavioral. That's one reason why many cities have Greektowns, Chinatowns or Mexicantowns etc...

Posted by jointron33
@IsabellaRoth: i think its perfectly natural for boys to like such characters though. its basic anatomy lol
Posted by divingfalcon713
@IsabellaRoth: Cass, Steph, Raven, and Ravager are all cool characters but they've got flaws too.  Your argument seems to hint that because Starfire likes wearing skimpy outfits it means she'll sleep with anyone and I don't think that's true.  As far as I know she's only slept with Nightwing, Adam Blake, and Animal Man (if you count him at all since that storyline was non-canon).  I feel like if you're comparing her to Ravager in regards to her sexuality it's not really fair since Rose blatantly slept with some random dude in Blackest night, then kicked him out when she was finished having her way with him.
 
I can understand women not liking her because she's a blatant use of fanservice, but I am not one of them.  I actually like starfire: she's super strong, can shoot energy out her hands, and is pretty good at hand to hand combat.  Her origin is also pretty intense when you think about it.  I just don't think she's been written very well as the years have passed.  I do agree with the naturalization problem though.  By now she should understand that Earth's sexuality customs are way different than Tamaran's...I just don't think she cares lol

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