@The Stegman: No superman doesn't have to change anything. Captain America was a risk for marvel. They said it themselves. Also superman flopped overseas just to let you know. She uses her tiara in combat, for a male superhero audience it just won't look as cool. Captain America is doing sub-par overseas but lucky thing is its geared for boys so its not doing so bad. In the theatre i was in half the people were little boys. In fact cap brougth out the fanboy in me. I can discuss this tomorrow. Its been a great dicussion. But somethings come up.
And Thor was worshipped for 1 thousand years here on earth. He is a real mythology. And his is damn interesting, like greek mythology. People are interested in these things because its fascinating. WW's mythos isn't something interesting. I don't see novels and film after blockbuster film being made about it or college courses being taught or entire degrees been made. Its new and uninteresting. Thor's mythology is a part of our very history. I know what the rope and tiara can do, read my post about it's not about power, its about characterization. You have Thor coming in the avengers like a real god. A Deus Ex Machina in combat situation. It makes you think highly of him. Its the way he is presented. As a true godlike being. People like Wonder Man are powerful but he isn't presented like Thor. Thor's feathers, symbolism of sky and wings = flight, actually own to his dominance of the sky. Zeus has a tree branch around his head. Does it make him less lame, its presented in a way that it actually props him up. What does a princess crown symbolize that's worth noting. She's a princess?
youre missing my point, yes Thor is based off of a real person, but how does that make him any better than Wonder Woman? are you saying if Wonder Woman was Hera instead it would make her more iconic? at the end of the day they are both just fictional characters. like you said greek mythology is interesting and Wonder Woman's whole identity is steeped in Greek mythology, the fact that she isn't actually in the REAL mythos doesn't really matter, you have wonder woman coming into the Justice League as a god, a immensely powerful, trained warrior who is often the JLA's key to victory, and just because Thor is called a god, doesn't actually mean he's regardedly highly, how many times does he get kicked around by Hulk? or Sentry, or any other human with super strength? her tiara represents the fact she is royalty, her whole costume is designed to fit the criteria and beliefs of whatever country she is representing, in this case, America, it represents her dedication toward patriotism and freedom
you're missing my point too. Thors mythology is interesting and has caused mass interest. WW deviates from Greek mythology widely. its not about the mythology been true obviously. its the amount of interest people have generated into it. WW is no god like character in the JLA. Even in comics, MM, superman and flash are better than her in overall power level. I never said he is regarded highly by other in comics, i said to me aka READERS. Ok it represents royalty, how is that interesting. Thor is also royalty. So it doesn't pay her anything. Also she is the princess of a clan of maidens, not exactly mass appealing. Not to some 40 year old movie watcher. Also she defends the world (In the JLA comics), not just america. There is no need to wear an american outfit. its like superman giving up his american citizenship. While he may defend america's principles he doesn't have be grounded to it. Having a citizenship is like telling the world "America has a superhuman police man and the rest of you are pretty much screwed". So is it in Wonder Woman's case. She can represent their attitude but her costume sends the same message. Comics are becoming more diverse and more open to non-Americans (like myself). its time comic companies started realizing that these heroes are for the world, not just one nation. If she wants to transit into the film audience the american costume has to be changed for success. For films nowadays, less than 40% of the total gross are in north America (for a real wide release blockbuster). She is from another realm (figuratively), she should not be repsenting one country but the 'world of man' she has stepped into. For you it might be 'well she was made in america', but for commercial success that has to be looked over. Thats one of the main concerns with the captain america film -how will it do well outside of america. If it fails overseas it will be disastrous for the overall gross.
Thor represents earth in its whole, he beliefs in america's ideals too but doesn't wear a american flag to show it, it makes him more appealing (again coming back to this) and more acceptable. He wears the armor like outfit of his native land to represent where he is coming from.
@The Stegman: At the same time if you change his outfit it won't cause an uproar amoung fans and a potential boycott like what nearly happened when they showed her new outfit for the tv show. So its a safer bet. @Vance Astro said:
@Green Skin said:
Thor has more mass appeal, plain and simple. Boil it down to it's essence and tell me what movie you'd rather see: a Thunder God with a magic hammer, or an Amazonian Princess with a magic rope.
The second one seems less appealing when you dumb down her characterization like that.To be honest from these descriptions I wouldn't want to see either.
it all comes down to risk, cant make WW appealing to the wider audience without making major changes. Doing so could alienate fans and this could cause a double loss if the wider audience doesn't accept her revamp and the comic fans decide to boycott.
@Green Skin said:
Thor has more mass appeal, plain and simple. Boil it down to it's essence and tell me what movie you'd rather see: a Thunder God with a magic hammer, or an Amazonian Princess with a magic rope.
Not in any tv or cartoon i've seen her in. In comics no sorry. our opinion are split here. I don't mean badass in power level. I mean overall character.
Have you seen Justice League Unlimited? Wonder Woman the animated movie? JLA: On Two Earths? If you haven't seen anything "badass" from her maybe you're limited in what you've seen because i'm sure she's done things that other characters have done that you would call badass.
I've seen all these and nothing struck me as cool. I can't help but he annoyed at how ridiculous a character she is. JLA actually made me dislike her more. She was whipping a rodeo whip while others turned into monster, ran super fast, shot laser beams or create a cool construct. JLA: Earth two, i read the comics and watched the film. Nothing to note there. Her power level is impressive but her characterization isn't. There is more to a character than making them ultra-powerful and a awesome martial artist. if the way you present them isn't good, they end up failing. In fact the film which made me see her more in a good light was Superman?Batman: Apocalypse. Her and Big Barda owned in that film.
You simply don't like the character.I'm not TRYING to make you like her.I'm simply asking how you can say she's NOT badass, I don't know what definition you are using but she's done some pretty bad ass things.If you don't like the character you just don't i'm not trying to make you recall instances where she impressed you.
i'm telling you i've seen all your instances thats all, sorry the post was long. But yeah its the whole characterization and appeal stuff...
@The Stegman said:
@mark5:
Thor has norse mythos behind him which justifies the hammer partly. Also men and boys (superhero films are geared at them) would find it more awesome than a rodeo whip which makes people tell the truth or a princess crown. Just saying. Her costume should be more armor like, like Xena was. And besides Xena actually killed people and was a full grown warrior. She is considered quite manly. Wonder Woman is like her but not quite. Though come to think of it i think taking her the MacGyver way would be better than her killing people. haha.
yes, the hammer is apart of Norse mythos, but the lasso is apart of ww's mythos, i don't see how one is more belieable than others, the rope can be used in combat to subdue enemies, it is unbreakable and can be used to lift heavy objects (she once used it to pull a collapsing bridge back together) you're making fun of her tiara? when thor has feathers on his ears? i agree that her costume should be more like Xena or at least traditional Greek battle gear, hopefully it will be, and Diana kills people, she just tries to find alternatives to it first, the Amazons are a race of warriors after all
And Thor was worshipped for 1 thousand years here on earth. He is a real mythology. And his is damn interesting, like greek mythology. People are interested in these things because its fascinating. WW's mythos isn't something interesting. I don't see novels and film after blockbuster film being made about it or college courses being taught or entire degrees been made. Its new and uninteresting. Thor's mythology is a part of our very history. I know what the rope and tiara can do, read my post about it's not about power, its about characterization. You have Thor coming in the avengers like a real god. A Deus Ex Machina in combat situation. It makes you think highly of him. Its the way he is presented. As a true godlike being. People like Wonder Man are powerful but he isn't presented like Thor. Thor's feathers, symbolism of sky and wings = flight, actually own to his dominance of the sky. Zeus has a tree branch around his head. Does it make him lame? its presented in a way that it actually props him up. What does a princess crown symbolize that's worth noting. She's a princess?
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