Malevolent1

The list is not limited to comic company, hero or villain.

Here is my list in no certain order:

1) Ghost Rider. His combination of power, intent and look; he is BAD to the bone (pun intended). When he comes to town, it's never a good reason.

2) The Punisher. Trained in multiple military, combat disciplines. Ex-cop with a decidely psychotic obssession with villains, he is a street thugs worst nightmare.

3) Dr Doom. Genius level intellect, second only to Reed Richards combined with an unending lust to accumulate power from science and magic; he is earth's foremost modern alchemist with a ruthless attitude toward his enemies.

4) Tyrant. Almost on par with Galactus in power...with a very nasty attitude. This guy took on Gladiator, Terrax, Morg, Ganymede, Jack of Hearts, Beta Ray Bill and the Silver Surfer and MOPPED THE FLOOR with them all. Without breaking a sweat.

5) Thanos. Basically, the cosmic version of Dr Doom, only much more powerful.

6) Thor. Initially, Marvel's most powerful superhero, while typically holding back from expressing his full power among mortals, has no hang-ups on cutting loose on supers, and occassionally slaughtering them. With strength at least equal to a very pissed off Hulk, far greater durability, control over the weather and one of the most powerful weapons in the Marvel universe, this guy has struck fear in the heart of many of his opponents.

7) Doomsday. A clever spin-off of the Marvel's Hulk, this character can adapt to virtually any and everything any superhero can throw at him and relentlessly keep coming. It's alway bad news when this guy shows up.

8) The Silver Surfer. Speed and reaction time beyond light speeds, strength with no definite upper limit. Virtually indestructible. Concussive bolts of the power cosmic that easily shatter large planets. Senses heightened almost beyond comprehension, the Surfer has a long list of abilities and powers that make him one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful herald/superhero currently in the Marvel universe. Keep in mind, it's only been in the last several decades that the Surfer turned over a new leaf by doing the superhero thing. However, Norrin Radd spent thousands of years previously laying waste to entire inhabited planets, some of them, the most technologically advanced ever known. The ultimate harbinger of destruction.

9) Despero. Strength well past Superman and durability to match. Telepathic power to put Martian Manhunter to shame. Telekinesis. This guy took out the JLA AND the JSA at the same time. In my opinion, DC's equivalent to Thanos in power.

10) The Void. The Sentry's alter-ego. Power on par with the likes of Thor and the Silver Surfer, the Void has a rather callous attitude life in general. Once broke every bone in the Hulk's body.

In anticipation of the upcoming Defenders magazine, how does everyone feel about the new roster? Who should be on the current defenders roster and who should not?

Is anyone excited about Fraction writing the magazine or the opposite?

Should previous continuity of each character on the roster be consulted (and in the previous Defenders series) or should this be a fresh start?

I never got that indication. But he certainly received a power upgrade in Annihilation (see Beta Ray Bill: Godhunter #2).

Outstanding post by pumpmastaflex!! Very well thought out, logical examination of how a throw down between these two powerhouses should go.

Here are the problems, not with your logic, but the obstacles presented by Marvel Comics:

1) Marvel has milked the confrontation between these two goliaths for decades. One of the major reasons Marvel has not outrightly declared Thor as the strongest superhero at Marvel is because any future conflicts from said moment of declaration would water down any future conflicts they had.

2) Love'em or hate'em (I happen to LOVE Stan Lee), Stan Lee, collaborating with Jack Kirby, John Buscema, Steve Ditko, Herb Trimpe, etc...engineered his characters with "suspension of disbelief"...he wanted to make what the characters did seem somehow believable. That's what I grew up with, so for me personally, the Joe Quesada era ushering in the "it's comics, anything goes!" philosophy is problematic. His philosophy is diametrically opposed to Stan Lee's. I'm sorry, you can't just blow off 40 or 50 years of continuity just to give free rein to "artistic license" or whatever weird mantra Marvel now operates by. Kind screws the stories and character up and alienates fans in the process.

3) I don't know that Stan would ever come out and outright declare it, but it was clear to me from reading his book Origins of Marvel Comics that Stan seemed to always have DC's Superman in mind when he was creating some of his characters. Thor, in my opinion, was Stan's first direct attempt to compete with, and ONE UP, the Man of Steel. Thor was designed to be Marvel's strongest, most powerful, wisest and most innately good (noble) character in the Marvel universe. With Kurt Busiek being a loud voice at Marvel now, we will NEVER see that. Ever. The guy hates the character. Furthermore, he LOVES Superman. Yeah. Pretty sad. I think Stan would say they are fairly even in raw brute strength, but ONLY when Hulk is RAGING PISSED OFF. As many by know, Thor is a far more skilled combatant, as you mentioned he has stated numerous times that he holds back against mortals (particularly against Bruce Banner an innocent man whose life has been cursed by his alterego). Now add inherent powers over the weather/elements and Mjolnir, Hulk really has no chance.

4) Hulk's anger being the controlling factor in his strength is problematic. Why? You can only get so pissed off. Everyone has a ceiling. His strength is based not on how long he is pissed off but how pissed off he actually is. The idea of limitless strength being what gives Hulk his strength is, therefore a fallacy. Besides, there are a few other Marvel characters who are in the same "limitless strength" category. The term limitless is really subjective. Trust me, I can't see an enraged Hulk going toe to toe with, say, Tyrant, for example. Tyrant would mop the floor with Hulk, no matter how angry the Hulk was. Don't get me wrong, Hulk is the poster boy for superhuman strength at Marvel, but in my opinion, Hulk at the height of his strength, is about equal to Thor.

5) Each character's feats in the comics are conveyed by different writers with different perspectives on what they think is strong. A few years ago, Thor is seen lifting Asgard over his head with the aid of Beta Ray Bill during the Skrull Invasion. Evidently, that was supposed to be impressive. Thor has ripped through admantium cables with his bare hands and lifted the Midgard Serpent overhead. This guy struck a celestial so hard, not only did he knock a huge hole in the celestial's armor, the resulting shock wave shattered mountains for miles around. A quick side point: I have seen Thor's skin cut, or pierced, by an axe and otherwise seen other writers demonstrating he could bleed. When you consider Thor has, in decades past, demonstrated his nigh invulnerability by holding nuclear warheads in his bare hands while they exploded or taken a blast from "the doomsday bomb", designed to destroy a galaxy, with no ill effect and then survive an orbital fall to nearby planet Patagonia...I just don't see his skin being pierced by conventional means.

So, Thor's real problem is, he can't get no love at Marvel. And you would think Marvel would be capitalizing on his popularity right now...his movie was fairly successful. In my opinion, Marvel chased off the best writer for Thor Marvel and fans alike have seen in decades in JM Stracynski...now that guy portrayed Thor the way he should have been portrayed. Fraction, should not be writing Thor. He's a good writer, but Thor is not his realm.

The first time I ever read the Silver Surfer was in Fantastic Four #55. I was hooked. What an incredibly powerful character (I'm power freak, LOVE uber powerful superheroes...). I thought his original depiction in that issue was spot on. So detached from human emotion (as you would expect from someone who has achieved a level of "oneness", or cosmic consonnance, with the universe. When Lee decided to give the character his own magazine, he was decidedly a more "spiritual" character, saddened by the destructive tendencies of creatures from all over the universe, including humans, and prone to soapbox sermons rife with universal philosophy, the meaning of life and such. Pak's recent mini was a great opportunity to 1) sever the tie with Galactus 2) allow the character to experience human frailty and emotions again and use that as a platform to 3) give the character a decidedly more aggressive edge and a reason to want to kick ass. I cannot tell you how frustrating to see a character with Norrin's level of power, NOT USE IT. He's worse than Superman. He actually has more powers than Superman and is worse at utilizing them in any given encounter with enemies.

The Silver Surfer has such GREAT potential and yet time and again, writer's miss the point with him. However, a large key with him, is giving him a human connection...someone in the form of Alicia Masters that can help make him accessible to the average reader.

Agreed. I think, maybe Marvel was hoping that Fraction could inject his success from X-Men into Thor. I mean, I don't know how to say it any nicer. We need someone else writing Thor. I got an idea Marvel. Why don't you beg Stracynski to come back because he DID have Thor figured out and his books rapidly established what Thor really is in the Marvel universe. Their top dog. The one guy every other hero in the Marvel universe would look to when all else and everyone else has failed. Fraction just doesn't seem to get that. Stracynski did. I swear to God, Marvel has it in for the character. Stracynski managed to re-establish Thor as Marvel's top dog, along with the character's credibility after the JLA/Avengers debacle and what does Marvel do? Get rid of Stracynski.

I hope that Fractions vision is not limited when it comes to the Defenders and the Silver Surfer. It seems Galactus has become the ultimate pawn when a writer in Marvel wants to make a statement about their character's power level. What a shame. And no one since Starlin really gets the Surfer. Man, I wish we could have Lim and Starlin back writing the Surfer (and the Defenders for that matter). I would feel much more at ease. But I have a feeling Fraction is going to screw this one up too (if the Surfer's appearance in Thor #3 and 4 is any indication).

We'll see.

At last. On going featuring the Silver Surfer (among others). Defenders were a power house team in the 70s and the combination of Strange, the Surfer alone is a powerful combination. I have high hopes for this book. Matter of fact, this is the last shot Marvel gets at my money. I'm enjoying DC's relaunch right now and see nothing in Marvel that is really worth reading. Let's hope Defenders is a home run.

Thor everyday. And twice on Sunday.

Yeah. Pretty much agree with the OP...Fraction epitomizes the "It's comics, anything goes!" attitude that Marvel has adopted.

Unfortunately, the majority of characters at Marvel were designed around Stan Lee's philosophy of adding suspension of disbelief.

Polar opposites. On a more personal level, I think Kurt Busiek, a major voice at Marvel from a creative stand point at Marvel, never liked the character of Thor anyway...but after the fallout from the JLA/Avengers crossover he engineered, I'd say his attitude toward the character Thor has gone decidedly south since then. Hey, he's human and can be just as vindictive as the anyone else. Not only that, the writer's and editors have adopted a real, "screw you", disdainful attitude toward the criticisms of the readers. Hey, it's a product we pay for. Might 'oughta pay it some mind.

Yeah, I'm done reading Thor, too. This is not what Stan Lee intended with the character at it's inception.