Lvenger's forum posts

#1 Posted by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said: Kraven has shown to use dirty tactics against characters he doesn't believe he can beat, in order to gain the upper hand. Examples of this include his second fight against Tigra and his numerous battles against Spiderman. It would not be a stretch for him to use these dirty tactics against Cap, in the event he feels he would lose.

And what feats does Starfox have that suggest his skill and proficiency with these holds are superior to Kraven's?

Kraven's son Vladimir commented on Kraven's great skill:

It seems to me like the only reason Cap escaped that hold was because Starfox had no clue how to apply it. The same won't happen with Kraven, who's raw physical strength exceeds Steve's and his skill with these holds will prevent Cap from escaping.

That's fair enough but you have set one of the conditions of the battle being morals off. So it's just as likely that Cap will be willing to perform dirty and lethal tactics in this fight that can grant him the win. Evidently, Kraven is more likely to do them but you've opened the gateway for a more vicious Cap in this fight. And morals on, he can be a fearsome opponent already. As for the grab comment, it's hard for me to reply to that without a proper feat of Steve escaping such a hold. But I've shown Cap's strength to be very impressive and his skill will be defended later on in our debate. So, suffice to say, Cap will know a lot about holds and be able to get out of even Kraven's holds. Not to mention that he could have thrown his shield before Kraven grabs him in a way that it will hit Kraven easily since he won't be able to grab it or dodge it.

A full powered hit from Spiderman would likely turn Taskmaster's face into jelly, given he is a relatively normal man in terms of durability. It's a safe bet Spiderman wasn't giving the punch all he had.

True but Taskmaster was still on the receiving end of a quite angry Spider-Man punch. And one of Spidey's more lax punches is clearly dozens of times more powerful than a mere human punch. And Taskmaster is still less durable than Cap's greater than peak human stats so it's not out of the question for Steve to endure Spider-Man's attacks as well as Kraven has done in their fights.

While those darts won't work as long as Cap has his shield up, Kraven has ways of lowering Cap's defenses, such as poison gas from his vest:

True, I guess Cap could his breath just as Ka-Zar did, but as clearly shown in the scan, the gas did stun him. The only reason Kraven didn't follow through with that was because, let's be honest, it's the classic "villain monologues while hero recovers" trope and it wouldn't happen in a battle such as this. Cap being stunned by gas is the perfect distraction Kraven needs to land a hit or two with his trusty poison knives, or give Cap a chest full of poison darts.

You defeat your own point for me mate. Cap is more than capable of holding his breath for an extended time then clobbering Kraven as Ka-Zar does in your scan. He's just as likely to leap out the way too. Now if Kraven were using the laser nipples, THEN Cap would have a problem :P

Kraven can also use one of his nets to slow Rogers down. These nets are strong enough to hold Spiderman:

Or use a bolas (though this would likely fail, it's worth noting Kraven still possesses them).

Spider-Man had been drugged beforehand by Kraven at range so that made his reflexes all sluggish. Kraven needs to poison Cap first to get him with a net and I've already shown my feats for Cap's reflexes and reactions.

Opponents who have similar reflexes to Kraven's have been shown capable of grabbing the shield in mid-throw:

It wouldn't be too far fetched to say that Kraven could do something similar, or use one of his projectiles to intercept the trajectory of the shield mid-throw.

Hawkeye has exceptional hand-eye coordination along with excellent reflexes so he's bound to be able to catch Cap's shield mid flight. He's also one of the few people who can throw the shield in a manner nearly as well as Steve. And Gambit is...someone whose feats I'm not familiar with due to my disdain for the X-Men lol. But he's someone with good reactions too I assume. So I admit Kraven has a chance of snagging the shield or deflecting it. But it's a way to keep him off balance too. Has Kraven shown the ability to perform such feats?

And shall we move onto fighting skills next or is there more on weapons you want to cover?

#2 Posted by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: BFR seems to be on the table so it's not out of the question for Orion to use it if it's something at his disposal that he has an inclination to do.

#3 Edited by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: Some writers are better at one big company than another. Most of Waid's greatest work has been at DC whereas JMS has done better stuff at Marvel than DC.

#4 Posted by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy said:

@rulerofthisuniverse said:

I much prefer plot and character development to fighting.

Seconded. All out action can't always be well written and kept interesting and developing the story enough without diving into popcorn territory.

#5 Posted by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio

It ends with Slott being shown up for the writing hack he is.

#7 Edited by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: Interesting response. How often does Orion use BFR as a strategy?

#8 Edited by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a very admirable thing to do. But I'm sorry to be blunt when I say this: This won't work. One little quitting from buying DC doesn't change a thing I'm afraid. You're just depriving yourself of good DC Comics over a meaningless message. You can defend it all you want but honestly, you're accomplishing nothing. I wish it weren't so but this will do nothing to change DC's situation over their editorial interference and treatment of creators whatsoever. You're sacrificing your enjoyment of Superman for nothing.

If I've learnt anything from my 'discussions' with Dan Slott and Scott Lobdell on here, it's that they don't give a damn what you or I say. To them, only the praise of some warped minded creators along with writing their own fan fiction and selling it in bucketloads is what they think about. They don't care if one person quits over these things because sales are still strong. I'm not buying as many DC or Marvel books as I used to but there are still good quality titles that deserve to be supported. And still, Marvel are actually doing much worse than DC at the moment given the constant events and seeming glee they take in pi$$ing off the fans. DC are looking good by their standards.

So, I conclude, don't deprive yourself of the few good Superman stories there are in the New 52. You're just cutting down on enjoying them for yourself and ultimately, Superman stories are there to be enjoyed, not ignored by the fans. I see far more wrong in this decision than there is right unfortunately.

#9 Posted by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio

And I agree that maybe the article should be rotated to include other characters instead of Batman.

#10 Edited by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to have some very interesting things to say once this debate is concluded.