Lvenger's forum posts

#1 Posted by Lvenger (19836 posts) - - Show Bio

I hear Linda's underrated so I'll go with Linda.

#2 Edited by Lvenger (19836 posts) - - Show Bio

@lowlaville: Well since you graciously agreed to do this CAV with just New 52 Wonder Woman to start off with, I intend to show you why Current Diana is hopelessly outmatched against a far more powerful foe than her in this universe. A character with a new tin but the same lick of paint, just like New 52 Wonder Woman is. Everyone knows his origin, his powers and who he is so enough with my introduction, I'll demonstrate why New 52 Superman is more than a match for New 52 Wonder Woman.

Strength

I'll begin by demonstrating Superman's obvious strength advantage over Wonder Woman. In the physical lifting, pushing and moving departments, Superman is undoubtedly Diana's better in this regard. And there are numerous feats to prove my point, even without going to his high tier ones.

He's easily held up a bridge in Swamp Thing #19 without fatigue or exertion on his part.

Superman has also caught a falling airship with ease.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101060-9338246711-25112.jpg">

He's thrown the Daily Planet like a bowling ball at a flame monster.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101061-3038806249-25111.jpg">

In this flashback talk with Supergirl in Supergirl #3, we see Superman saving an airplane from disaster with just his sheer physical strength.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101062-6488500294-25332.jpg">

And lastly for this section, here Superman lifts a Russian military submarine out of the depths of the ocean onto the surface of the sea. Military-class subs weigh thousands of tons (and the weight doubles if submerged underwater). According to Supes, the chambers were also lined with lead, and lead itself is pretty dense (11.36 grams/cm-cubed). So lifting this sub out of the water with ease is a real testament to Superman's physical strength.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101063-4251379560-23830.jpg">

This is only the tip of the iceburg for Superman's physical strength feats too. There are plenty more and better ones from where this came from, I assure you. This demonstrates the clear strength edge Superman has over Wonder Woman and in a contest of muscle against muscle, Superman would be sure to quickly and clearly overpower Diana in that aspect of battle.

Striking Power

But of course, physical strength does not equal striking power. So I tend to separate the two for good measure. In any case, Superman has many feats to prove that he can hit harder than Diana and when his blows connect with her, they'll do far more damage than her hits will do to him.

In Justice League #3, Superman picks up a lorry and uses it as a baseball bat to send dozens and dozens of Parademons flying into the air. I didn't see Diana do anything like this in the Justice League: Origins arc.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101066-9376850528-25264.jpg">

In his younger and weaker Jeans and T-Shirt days, Superman proved capable of knocking down a steel door in one kick. And to reemphasise, he's much, much stronger and more powerful in his current form.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101067-1202153810-23695.png">

Superman has also hit his foes so hard that he can create an AOE shockwave fallout from his blows. Two instances when this has happened include him punching Xa-Du, a Kryptonian from the Phantom Zone with the same powers as he had (scan on the right) As well as when Superman punches a ship so hard to stop it from crashing into Metropolis that the shockwave from his punch shatters windows up and down the bay.

He's hit a zombie Kryptonian Dragon/Snake thing hard enough to "topple a small mountain" which KOes the head of the beast.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101071-4398746350-26679.jpg">

Again, I think that'll do for now. This is already better than most of Diana's striking feats and I haven't even gotten onto the good stuff yet. Hence, this part of my argument all but proves Superman's superior striking power over Diana, meaning that a few solid hits once Clark has had enough of her temper tantrums should be sufficient to KO or incapacitate her, let alone kill her if it came down to it.

Durability

There's a reason whenever people think of invulnerability to harm, Superman pops into their heads. As well as being able to dish out damage, Superman can take it in spades too. He's far more likely to be able to tank Diana's blows than Diana can his. Especially since he's been hit harder than she can. To clarify, I'll only focus on blunt force and piercing resistance feats as Diana has no way of using energy projection against Superman.

First up, here's H'El, an insane and uber powerful Kryptonian who passed through black stars in space amping his powers to even greater levels than Superman. He's stronger, faster and more versatile than Superman but his strength is all that matters for now. Here's H'El smacking Superman into orbit with a double fisted uppercut yet Superman isn't KOed by such potent force on that blow.

And for comparison, here's how easily H'El brushed off Wonder Woman too.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101084-4494445003-v9V9X.jpg">

Secondly, Supergirl, a being who's around about Wonder Woman's physical level, as admitted by Diana herself, decked Superman straight through the Great Wall of China which is 5,500 miles long. But Superman was completely unaffected by that attack, both in terms of registering it and showing any signs of pain or damage from that attack. He was only trying to talk and reason with Supergirl the entire fight whilst she tried to beat him senseless over a misunderstanding.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101085-9045272373-23839.jpg">

He's tanked blows from other heavy hitters like Orion too.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101094-2234840627-30613.jpg">

And in Superman Unchained #1, he shields two astronauts from the full impact of a giant space station when it falls from space to the ground without taking damage himself.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101097-8068145199-31057.jpg">

Lastly, he has tanked a direct kick from Wonder Woman whilst she was angry with Hal Jordan and in the full fury of battle but I suspect you're going to cite this one as a striking feat for Diana. In any case, on my end, it shows how well Superman can take Diana's attacks.

And that highlights a short showing of Superman's vast durability edge over Diana. Finally...

Combat Speed/Reflexes

As a man way faster than a speeding bullet, Superman outranks Current Diana by a milestone yet again IMO

He's casually caught a bullet in his Jeans and T-Shirt days.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101098-8355507172-23697.png">

Superman has also moved as fast as lightning to intercept flaming blasts fired by a fire creature on buildings. Before you write this off as hyperbole, the narrator of the newspaper article was Clark Kent himself who wrote the story. So whilst it could have been hyperbole, no one knows better about how fast he can move than Superman himself. Hence why I use the feat.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101099-1294646785-25111.jpg">

He caught a bullet fired at him by Eros just before it hit him in the chest.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101100-4393812104-32428.jpg">

When fighting Psycho Pirate, Superman is able to fire off a blast of heat vision before Psycho Pirate can detect it coming with his telepathy. He notes "Guess you think quicker than I thought you did." Against Diana, Superman could easily pull off this or another action like a punch, a kick or a speedblitz before she can react to it.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101102-0626676093-33505.jpg">

Finally, he's able to speedblitz Hal Jordan before he can even realise Superman is coming. And since the Pre New 52 Green Lantern history is still intact, Hal is capable of moving at supersonic speeds and reacting to Barry Allen.

<img src="http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/7/72524/4101105-8033233385-39377.jpg">

In summary, this concludes my opener for why I sustain that New 52 Superman outclasses New 52 Wonder Woman by a noticeable degree. I've shown how he's stronger, hits harder, is more durable and moves faster so far and I have yet to get into Superman's ranged versatility and tactical thinking in combat. Anyway your move mate, good luck :)

#4 Posted by Lvenger (19836 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@lowlaville: Well do you want to post first or shall I go?

Why don't you go ahead. I was actually about to, but since you are here, and I have around 30 scans I need to sort out in my images, you might as well just go ahead.

All right I'll go first then. Expect it up soon.

#5 Posted by Lvenger (19836 posts) - - Show Bio

@lowlaville: Well do you want to post first or shall I go?

#6 Posted by Lvenger (19836 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: Yeah that was CadenceV2 you were debating against mate. Godzilla is one of his 'specialties' but I guess he got IP banned again. He's been using several different accounts on here but he can't access them anymore.

Anyway, you definitely get my vote after a second read through of the debate. You outlined Piccolo's capabilities, advantages and road to victory solidly and when your opponent brought up his advantages, you turned them around with good reference to what Piccolo can do in response to Godzilla's physical edge. Nice job.

#7 Posted by Lvenger (19836 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by Lvenger (19836 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderman1997: Heh thanks for mentioning me amongst such high company :P

#9 Posted by Lvenger (19836 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Edited by Lvenger (19836 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainmarvel4ever: Well according to some online rumours, Johns is only allowed to work on 2 comic series at once alongside his TV and film script work. It's improved the quality of his writing now he's not on multiple series but I do miss his Aquaman and Shazam stories. Still, at least I get him to improve Superman in the New 52 which is always good :)