Lvenger

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Lvenger

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I have no idea who the Hulk hunters are but people don't seem to think they improve Hulk's chances so I guess there's no need to find out more about their capabilities. Looks like Superman still wins.

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@lvenger: this is just disgusting . I really thought Aaron was saving Thor but damn he might have just been the embalming fluid , smh . I'm really getting sick of marvel & their PR stunts .

Same here, I'm almost done with Marvel except for 1 or 2 titles. Slott has ruined Spider-Man and now Aaron's awesome run has been sidelined in favour of false diversity.

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Lvenger

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@rustyroy said:

@lvenger said:

@entropy_aegis said:

Romita gets too much crap.his art is decent imo and can be very good, Machinist looks cool as well.

He gets too much crap justifiably for his Marvel work. His Superman work is decent and easy enough on the eye but it's hardly anything special compared to other New 52 Superman artists like Rags Morales, Tony Daniels and Jim Lee. Compared to those guys, Romita's scrawny pencils look bad. Even his 80+ year old father draws a better Superman than his son as that variant cover demonstrates.

I've been reading his and Morrison's AC run(thanks again for the recommendation) and he's characters' eyes look uneven. He's art is good but not great.

Yeah I do agree with you to an extent on some of his artistic work. Particularly towards the end of Morrison's run. DC had to get Brad Walker to come in to do some fill in art and that looked really nice actually. Quite complementary to Morrison's writing tbh. Wouldn't have minded Walker to take over from Morales completely though I enjoyed both artists myself.

And no problem mate, I'm glad you enjoyed something I recommended, if only for the story :P

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Lvenger

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@erik: Lol nice pic of me as Beast. Guess my use of him in your tourney is rubbing off on my CV appearance. I think I have an idea for my next AV then ;)

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Lvenger

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Team wins. Superman beats all of them alone by having far superior speed, more physical strength than any of them, better striking power(except thor, but he's close in that area), at least equal durability, comparable versaility to Thor and more than either of the others, as well as more skill and experience. The problem is facing every one of them. Superman isn't so good at using his speed that he won't be tagged by say, and AOE attack from Thor while fighting all of them, and getting dogpiled wouldn't be good for him considering Hercules and Thor have comparable physicals.

@lvenger thoughts?

Basically this yeah. Superman can handle any one of them on his own individually but even though he can dodge Thor's AOE attacks and lightning for the most part, there's the added problem of Sentry trying to speed blitz him followed by Hercules attempting to wrestle him with a Pankration move. There's no way Superman can account for all these comparable, if not superior physical powerhouses in some areas, and eventually he gets hit by Thor's AOE or Sentry which results in an uber dogpile a-la JLA/Avengers.

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@micah said:

@lvenger said:

@micah said:

@frozen said:

Feats for Shredder?

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/shredder-6638/shredder-respect-thread-1496007/

One of them is him beating down Splinter, who's skill and physicals are considered on par with Batman's.

I'm afraid there are many major problem with Mateus Santolouco's statement that Splinter's skills are comparable to Batman's.

  1. Santolouco hasn't worked on Batman so doesn't have the authority to compare another character's skills to him.
  2. It was a subjective statement attempting to gauge how skilled a character is and Batman is one of the most well known street levellers/martial artists in comic books. Hence, it cannot be taken with much credibility that Splinter's skills are equal to Batman's in any way.
  3. Finally, feats>statements as that provides evidence of a character's capabilities. And Splinter's skill feats do not match up to what New 52 Batman can do, let alone Pre New 52 Batman's skills. Batman simply has vastly better skill showings than Saki does.feats

Well why can't he compare his skills to Batman? Splinter along with the Turtles have several lifetimes worth of experiences in combat. I think we can assume at least Splinter is skilled enough to battle Bats to a stand still.

This is also New-52 Batman, just because we haven't seen Splinter have many incredible feats it doesn't mean we can automatically assume he's weaker than Batman. Their are plenty of characters that don't have the feats to prove how deadly they are, but that doesn't mean their weaker than a certain opponent. William Cobb doesn't have many high-end skills, but he was able to battle and injure Batman (although he was weakened) and the same thing with Thomas Wayne Jr. My point being, Splinter may not have as much feats to back up the claims but we'll never know how he'll do against Batman until they fight for real, which will probably never happen. In my opinion a few concise feats outweigh several feats that could be considered PIS.

Ra's Al Ghul has centuries worth of combat experience due to his longevity but Batman was just owning him in Batman and Robin #32 - The Hunt for Robin: Dark of the Son (a New 52 feat for the record.) The 'lifetime experience card' is getting overplayed by Shredder supporters rather than letting each character's feats speak for themselves.

I wasn't using that logic at all to assume he was weaker than Batman. Splinter is technically physically superior to Batman due to being a legit superhuman but that wouldn't help him win a fight. As for your Cobb example, Batman then proceeded to stomp Cobb after being weakened, drugged, injured and fatigued in the Court's maze yet still owned Cobb so much that the higher ranking members of The Court decided to get rid of Cobb's body rather than letting it heal. My point being, Batman has fought, stalemated and defeated more skilled foes than Shredder in the New 52 already. And whilst you have the right idea about a few concise feats, I can categorically claim that Shredder's few good feats don't compare to the consistent quality feats that Batman has. And many of those are not PIS I assure you.

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@frozen said:

Batman, 8/10 majority.

Based on what I've seen and read up on Shredder thus far, it's really not enough to match up against Bruce or pose too much of a serious threat. Not only are Shredder's feats less defined than Batman's but they are lower in quantity, for each quality feat Shredder posesses, Batman has several equally as impressive, if not better feats to compare. For example - skill has always been Batman's major strength in combat, and often it compliments his overall physical ability. In regards to skill feats, Batman's stalemated Lady Shiva in Batman #427; a highly impressive feat considering not only does Batman clearly hold back more than Shiva does, but Shiva is considered to be a top 5 DC Martial-Artist, perhaps in the top 3 if we push it. In Batman: Legends of The Dark Knight #62, he mimicked Shiva's infamous Leopard Blow and flawlessly altered it to make it non-lethal (ergo, knocking opponents out instead of killing them). In Batman #469, Bruce defeated King Snake (Bane's father and a renowed martial-artist) and relatively more recently, completely trashed Bane in the Forever Evil Aftermarth: Batman vs Bane comic. Other established fighters such as Nightwing (whom Bruce trained) have commented that he is adept to every pressure point known to man (while Batman may not often use pressure points, he's utilized them against Ninja's and against a man immune to pain; proving effective against both). And moreover onto the physical aspect, Batman's bench pressed one ton (Batman #655), has demonstrated striking power potent enough to kick apart large trees, large stone pillars (which I may add, having been shot in the thigh on the same leg) and shattering Bazooka proof glass while weakened (Batman Chronicles #8). His durability has allowed him to trade blows with superhumans such as Clayface and Mr. Toxic, and in regards to speed, he's never really had a problem with tagging/out-fighting metahumans. I haven't even gotten into gadgets yet, but what does Shredder have to match or overcome Batman's massive skill and physical advantage? Because I firmly believe he has nothing to overcome Batman. The physical + skill advantage alone is too much for Shredder. In addition to this, it does help I suppose that parts of his suit are protected against bladed weapons.

I'm also seeing a point being made in regards to Shredder taking down armies of ninja's, etc. While that's rather cool and neat, Batman has fodderized ninja's, aliens and robots on a purely consistent basis. I don't really put too much stock into defeating fodder; it depends on how the fodder is defeated (e.g. if the fodder's defeat showcased a special ability by the attacker, such as pressure points).

Most of those feats are Pre New 52 Batman and Gregg says that this is current New 52 Batman fighting Shredder here. So most of your examples don't apply at all.

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Lvenger

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@frozen said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@frozen: taking down an army of foot clan ninjqs

Over 100. Beats splinter twice. Effortlessly destroys Karai, who took down bebop and rocksteady.

  • Batman has fodderized ninja's and aliens
  • Batman has stalemated better fighters than Splinter, in fact he's also stomped better fighters
  • And that's not even accounting for the physical advantage Batman posesses

The only problem making this case for me is that Matches' New 52 Batman respect thread is bursting with way too many feats. Hard to find the outstanding feats outside of the other ones he includes :P Still it's a good refresher course on Batman's abilities.

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Lvenger

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@micah said:

@frozen said:

Feats for Shredder?

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/shredder-6638/shredder-respect-thread-1496007/

One of them is him beating down Splinter, who's skill and physicals are considered on par with Batman's.

I'm afraid there are many major problem with Mateus Santolouco's statement that Splinter's skills are comparable to Batman's.

  1. Santolouco hasn't worked on Batman so doesn't have the authority to compare another character's skills to him.
  2. It was a subjective statement attempting to gauge how skilled a character is and Batman is one of the most well known street levellers/martial artists in comic books. Hence, it cannot be taken with much credibility that Splinter's skills are equal to Batman's in any way.
  3. Finally, feats>statements as that provides evidence of a character's capabilities. And Splinter's skill feats do not match up to what New 52 Batman can do, let alone Pre New 52 Batman's skills. Batman simply has vastly better skill showings than Saki does.
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Lvenger

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@csg_cl said:

With just a couple of issues remaining in the run I've been thinking about what else might get "revealed" as they close out the story

Is Zeke really Zeus?

What happened to the Minotaur?

Who else is going to die?

Any surprise resurrections?

How is Diana going to defeat the First Born?

Anyone have any theories?

  1. It's more than likely that Azzarello will make Zeke Zeus though this is something that could be guessed a mile away and most of Azzarello's WW run has been anything but predictable.
  2. I'm guessing Orion gets his revenge for getting gored but I like The Minotaur sacrificing himself for the good guys. Would be an interesting twist.
  3. My guess is that Strife will have been killed off screen by The First Born since she's nowhere to be seen in issue 33 when FB was hitting on Diana. I also have a gut feeling Hera might die fighting The First Born since she's the only person in the Wonder Woman title powerful enough to stand up to the First Born. Maybe Moon since she's in the heat of battle.
  4. Wonder Woman duh :P Probably Hades/Hell since someone needs to be The Lord of the Underworld and keep the dead people under control.
  5. Only that Diana might get a kickass undead army and own the FB's ass.