LordOfAllHumans's forum posts

#1 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4439 posts) - - Show Bio

@vinomonster:

You give a scan of her being mindraped to say she can't be mindraped? You do know that mindrape is the forceful entry of a mind, thus the word rape right? When ever a telepath does anything to a mind without the permission of the target it is mindrape, which is why most non-telepaths are uneasy around telepaths and get pissed when their thoughts are read even by mistake. Seems like it is completely possible to forcefully enter her mind and thank you for providing evidence. She was able to fight the attack but was not immune to it and it was an attack that only involved her reliving her past, instead of using the opportunity to shut her mind off or any other number of telepathic things Jean can do. Jean can kill telepathically and has, all she needs is access and you have given me proof that she can gain access regardless of me already knowing that she has feats against so called immunity anyway.

Then you show her being able to telepathically connect to soldiers as a god of war to express what? That she has some form of telepathy? Jean can telepathically connect to anybody regardless of their known job function without being a god. You know that just because you have telepathy does not mean you are automatically a match for everybody that has it, especially when your telepathy only works on certain people and seems to be only for scanning and speaking, right? From that scan we know she can telepathically read and communicate, that is telepathy 101. Jean lived as the second most powerful telepath in a world full of telepaths and was second only to a telepath that is respected as a top tier telepath on an intergalactic scale and then in the space of one issue, she replaced him as first and was never called his second again, because she had the skill and power to be number one as he predicted since he met her as a child. Telepathically talking to and knowing the name of some solider with no known psi training is not proof of anything except that she can telepathically talk to and know the name of some solider with no known psi training.

#2 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4439 posts) - - Show Bio

@bones309 said:

@agent41 said:

@bones309 said:

Some of these women from Marvel should be trouble on their own. Having this whole team seems over kill.

Storm,ms marvel and she-hulk aren't a thread on their on. invisible woman and scarlet are only a thread with prep.

I didn't say all of them would be but that some of them. I'm not sure how much prep Sue would really need….but there are just way too many people against WW here. Spectrum alone would be a major issue.

5 minutes prep with a telepath like Jean, who can shove months to years worth of information into another mind instantly, give a crash course on the use of mutant powers during a plane ride to several mutants and have a conversation while upgrading the powers of Beast while he is already engaged in combat with no physical time passing, is plenty of time for a group of experienced super heroines to form any number of ways to take Wonder Woman down.

#3 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4439 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41 said:

@lordofallhumans: WW has more than enough feats to prove that jean wouldn't mindrape her. If you really think that jean can beat WW you are underestimating WW a lot. And current jean is dead so we assume characters are normal standard unless stated otherwise. So no phoenix force.

She has feats of "immunity" or resistance?, because point is if anybody has gotten into her to mind she is not immune to anything. Jean has feats against "immunity" whether it be mystical, mutant, tech or otherwise, she had battle on every plane of existence at once to contain the Phoenix Force. You are underestimating, Jean not me underestimating Wonder Woman.

We assume that characters are in their current forms and currently Jean is physically dead but is merged with the Phoenix Force and can still act on the physical plane, and has recently been active, meaning if you want to split hairs Jean is White Phoenix and stomps. The only time there is no Phoenix force is when a version of Jean not using the Phoenix Force is used or the OP says no Phoenix Force. The OP gave no versions, so I can assume anytime somebody says Jean Grey without being specific it is current adult Jean, and she is White Phoenix.

Either way Jean has too many instances of breaking through all kinds of supposed telepathic immunity for you to be so sure Diana is beyond her power to do so.

#4 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4439 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41 said:

@pooty said:

@randomsid said:

@agent41 said:

@sophisticated_ignorance: @hulkage: Jean can't solo. Wonder Woman is invulnerable to TP and can one.shotte jean. Wonder Woman can speedblitz. But i say team wins because of Photon(Monica).

I'm sorry, but you are going to have to prove that WW is immune to telepathy. I seem to remember her being mind raped by various people over the years.

Other than in her battle against Maxwell Lord(which I just saw) has she ever displayed an immunity to telepathy before? Because I do remember(granted it's pre new52) her being mind raped on several occasions.

I'm not an expert on WW but hasn't she been TP'ed by Despero, Starro, and Fernus(Martian Manhunter)

WW always had a lot of protection to TP.Pre 52 WW being affected by Despero and Manhunter is pointless because they are way above Jean TP. And here New 52 feats are included. New 52 WW took universal level of TP.

Jean has enough showings against Juggernaut with his helmet, Emmas diamond form, Magnetos with his helmet, Ciphers natural psi invisibility, hordes of N'gari demons, mandroid type psi shields (all called immune to telepathy at one point or another), and destroying things that are psi proof for their to be arguments that WW will be affected by her telepathy. When focused and fully unleashed her telepathy can smash any psi defense natural or artificial as stated and shown on panel. What exactly does universal level telepathy actually mean and why should we be impressed unless talking about range? Gamesmaster is an omnipath, with more range than most telepaths but he is nothing compared to most of them, I'm just saying. The Phoenix Force has "universal level tp" and Jean can block it from taking over her mind, as shown when it was trying to get close to her and she wasn't allowing it. I'm not buying Jean not being able to affect WWs mind due to Jean having good showings against telepathic "immunity" as early as her being Marvel Girl with newly unlocked telepathy and being the deciding factor in a telepathic battle waged on every plane of existence simultaneously when Xavier battled the Dark Phoenix. With no PIS/WIS holding her back Jean should have no trouble mindraping WW.

#5 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4439 posts) - - Show Bio

@wtk1013 said:

1.Wolverine

2.Cyclops

3.Storm

4.Jean Grey

5.Rogue

6.Professor X

7.Magneto

I agree with you 100% with the first seven. The last 3 I think would be:

8.Mystique(Most poplar female villain)

9.Emma Frost(first villain to X-men then valued and one of the most known and popular X-men, and stole Scott from Jean)

10.Beast(Smartest and strongest of them all)

Actually Rogue was the first villain to X-men

#6 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4439 posts) - - Show Bio

Maddie said that jean's body is the only body powerful enough to house her consciousness. Was x-man or rachel on earth that time? does it mean that maddie is more powerful than rachel or x-man?

I think Rachel was in space and Nate was no longer a physical being, IRRC it was said nothing less than Jean Grey's body could contain her and she mentioned another that could but I think she was talking about her old body. She seemed to be very set on having Jeans body and doubt she would have been interested in Nate anyway because she is a she and he is a he.

#7 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4439 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@martinceld said:

Is maddie as powerful as jean? Without the goblin force that is

There is no Goblin Force in 616, and Goblin Force of Mutant X had the combined powers of itself, Phoenix and the Beyonder. Technically they (616 Jean and 616 Maddie) should naturally have the same potential for power with them both having the exact same genes, but Maddie always had a piece of the Phoenix in her before her Nate Grey resurrection so it's hard to say how powerful she actually was when her latent powers were unlocked. Was it her latent Jean Grey genes or was it dormant Phoenix powers? Like @awesomeperson said she was basically human and her resurrected ghost on the astral plane didn't consider herself a mutant from the conversation she had with Cable on the astral plane, so I'm leaning more to her being Phoenix empowered during the time of her first incarnation and just not using any of it until much later in the game, and in the end Phoenix chose Jean.

ye the goblin force in mutant x was on a different level lol it consumed galactus and the PF lol wth. Anyway, maddie didn't have some kind of goblin force during Inferno? Wasn't she some kind of demon queen in that arc? Sorry its been a decade since I read those issues

There is no Goblin Force in 616. Maddie became the Goblin Queen but just like Meggan became the Goblin Princess it was just a name she created as she was tricked by demons into thinking she would be the new queen of an Limbo merged Earth dimension. In actuality Maddie had a fraction of the Phoenix Force that was Dark Phoenix from the beginning to the end of her life including her time as the Goblin Queen. All her powers were due to latent psionic powers that were activated during her time on Genosha, now whether they were a result of a latent X-gene she would have from being the clone of Jean Grey or the dormant Phoenix force in her that gave her life remains to be seen or it could have been a combination of the two, but after Jean decided to take the Phoenix back Maddie became powerless as well as lifeless, as her resurrected self in X-Man drew power directly from him (Nate Grey), but then another ghost of Maddie comes back and has magic or something but needs Jean Greys body claiming that it was the only body powerful enough to house her consciousness. The last incarnation would make it seem she has gained independent power, or maybe she knew how to access potentially limitless psi while she was in Jeans body, IDK.

#8 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4439 posts) - - Show Bio

@martinceld said:

Is maddie as powerful as jean? Without the goblin force that is

There is no Goblin Force in 616, and Goblin Force of Mutant X had the combined powers of itself, Phoenix and the Beyonder. Technically they (616 Jean and 616 Maddie) should naturally have the same potential for power with them both having the exact same genes, but Maddie always had a piece of the Phoenix in her before her Nate Grey resurrection so it's hard to say how powerful she actually was when her latent powers were unlocked. Was it her latent Jean Grey genes or was it dormant Phoenix powers? Like @awesomeperson said she was basically human and her resurrected ghost on the astral plane didn't consider herself a mutant from the conversation she had with Cable on the astral plane, so I'm leaning more to her being Phoenix empowered during the time of her first incarnation and just not using any of it until much later in the game, and in the end Phoenix chose Jean.

#9 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4439 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero said:

@lordofallhumans: Hey I know you guys are still debating, but can you not tag me please? I let this go a long time ago.

Oh wow my bad I just quoted didn't you realize you were on there.

#10 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4439 posts) - - Show Bio

@bones309 said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@theonewhoknows said:

@lordofallhumans: @lukehero: Lukehero, I'm sorry real life interfered with my debating time. I can seey the way the conversation went, that you were dealing with one of those "tunnel vision" posters, apparently, that "debate" not to reach a rational, facts and feats driven conclusion (even if means their chosen loses), but merely to "win". Lordofallhumans, Lukehero countered every "argument" you had-claiming Wilow couldn't sense great power, couldn't attack instantly, etc. etc.---with SPECIFIC EXAMPLES to back up what he or she was asserting---and your response was, when you strip all the superfluous words, to say "Nuh-uh!" To claim Willow would be instantly taken out, or has no chance, is just ludicrous and flies in the face of the feats Willow did, even before she became as mega-powerful as she did.

Please your entire stance when you strip away "superfluous words", is Willow has magic she wins. Willow does not have the durability or the reaction time to deal with the kind of attack Jean can perform. Jean can react to missiles and bullets and destroy them before they even get close. In a battle face to face in character Jean thinks Willow dies, simple.

Willow was shown to react to a point blank explosion. She was knocked threw walls, hit with an axe in the back, etc. Both of these two showed the power to instantly kill a human. Willow showed the power to heal and durability. Where did Jean show the ability to heal or anything close to durability? Jean had TK and TP. Both of which Willow had. Willow also showed several other powers. Teleportation, controlling machines, creating/summoning demons/spirits, energy projection, super strength, durability, etc. Both of these two might be able to tear the other apart with a thought, Willow is the only one that showed she might be able to resist such an attack. Either by healing or teleporting at least.

Willow has not shown she can resist having her atoms scattered nor did she show any healing that would suggest she can heal from, not to mention you are ignoring that she did not go unhurt, she undid damage after it was dealt, it seems to me you are saying that because she can heal herself from an ax in the back that she can heal from being telekinetically atomized. She couldn't even resist Buffy knocking her across a room and she was more powerful during her fight with Buffy than she was with Warren. Jean reacted to multiple projectiles with her back turned, and killed everybody that fired them in one wave of thought. Jean caught a speeding missile. Trying to compare Willows tk and tp to Jeans in laughable. Willow has no battle feats with any of her others powers and he energy blasts are not stronger than optic blasts that Jean shielded from and deflected. She does not have superhuman strength, she needs to chant an incantation to gain it. Jean showed that she can prevent people from teleporting she did to Nightcrawler twice, in the first time doing so while holding him in place. Like I said I am aware of what Willow can do, and IMO Jeans power work faster when they are both powered up. Jean is in Phoenix mode meaning the eyes are already black, with a glance Willow will be dust with no effort because in that mode all black eyed Jean thinks and atoms separate, and until you show me Willow being durable enough (without having to cast a spell first, even though that spell would not have made her that durable since Giles was able to harm her and do was Buffy) and healing from total atomic deconstruction, I'm inclined to believe the one that has been in fight simulations since she was like 11 years old is quicker on the draw and will take Willow out rather quickly, especially in the first round.