@blacklegraph: Funny thought I just had, the way you describe Faora, she is like Predator and if you don't have any means to defend yourself she won't attack you. But yeah I see what you mean. This fight to me is very close, but I think Thor still comes out on top. It would not be an all out slaughter one way or another.
LB70145's forum posts
@lb70145: Many problems with that scenario.
First of all, Thor has to overcome her speed to land a decent hit, which is very unlikely given that he hasn't fought anyone of that speed calibre in his movies.
Secondly, Thor is more overconfident than Faora, also coupled with the fact that she is a woman, and he has more moral constraints than she does. If you are counting the experience from their movies, then you also have to consider that Faora fought Superman who was also faster than Thor and had equal if not greater strength.
Then the knife cannot be thrown to the side. It is available to her, and she drew on it when facing someone who also had a weapon, and Thor has a blatantly obvious one. Thor has years of experience but close to nothing to show for it. He just all out brawls and doesn't show the blocking and precision Faora does.
It is true that Thor has more movies and screen time to show for himself, but the little Faora has cannot be discounted either, and does not necessarily have to be equal to his.
1) I will give you that from the offensive standpoint Thor may have some difficulty being able to land a hit, but I feel eventually he would win out. His hammer will make up in offense where Faora will utilize speed in defense. I don't see her dodging attacks. She would rather counter them. However, I am not entirely sure how that will go when Mjolnir is such an X Factor in this fight. I am also not confident in her reflexes because there are instances such as when Supes trips her while being double teamed, that suggest she can't use speed for everything.
2) I will give you that he does have the moral constraints but he is still a warrior in the end. I don't think being a woman will stop Thor, especially since I know she would strike first. Like I said before about unknowns, there are too many with Faora. I don't know how much combat experience she has and what kind of people/creatures she has fought before. Whereas, I know that Thor has had hundreds of years worth of combat experience. Using Supes as an example is not that good considering it only proves the overconfidence I think she would have over Thor. She could have mopped the floor with Supes, but she didn't.
The knife is indeed there but will she use it? I am not sure she would. Granted she did pull it when faced with a weapon, but how about all the guns other soldiers had? She just tackled them. I imagine she would do the same with Thor, speed tackle only to realize he won't go down that way. That's why I equate her to the Hulk, she just kinda rushes people with raw power. If the knife so useful, why not pull it on Supes? She didn't have to toy with him using her unarmed prowess, but she did. I think that shows her preference in fighting. I will defend Thor's brawling insomuch as that he hasn't needed to use his full potential when fighting most opponents. This is not overconfidence, he knows he is stronger than the foes he fights. He didn't bat an eye at Frost Giants, but he was quite defensive when fighting Dark Elves because they were from before his time. He had no experience against them so he fought them trying to figure out how to take them down. Also take the first Thor, when he was mortal and fought off SHIELD agents he was using blocks and counters. He knew he was on their level, so he fought at a level needed to overcome his foes.
You are right, I should not write off those few scenes Faora had. But if those are what I have to base my scenario on, she just fights like a sped up Hulk that is more interested in proving her superiority than winning. If anything, she feels her superiority grants her victory from the get go and therefore has no need to fight at full power. Remember her face when hit by Superman's heat vision? That was a face of someone realizing her opponent was possibly stronger than her. Her superiority was nothing against Superman, because in that case he is better than her. She is a warrior facing foes so much weaker and more unskilled that her that she fights with no effort. This is why she will not win. As Coulson said to Loki, "You lack conviction."
P.S. Thank you for responding respectfully. I know how serious business these debates can get (especially this one judging the back and forth of others) and I appreciate your tact and calm demeanor. I also understand if it seems if I am heavily interpreting things that may be due to cinematic convenience or simply over analyzation of character actions, but it is my only opinion after all.
The night sky crackles with thunder as a man with Asgardian armor, golden hair, red cape, and glowing blue hammer sees his opponent. A woman stands across the street covered head to toe in a Kryptonian battle suit, a holographic display on her face mask reveals a cold piercing stare. Thor and Faora would only see each other as peculiar looking humans at first, it is only when she speeds towards Thor and strikes him that she realizes he is not what he seems. Thor then retaliates and sees that this armor is not like the red and gold suit of the Armored Avengers known as Iron Man. "You seem tougher than Asgardian Women. Let's see if you can best Thor the Thunderer," he quips. The slug fest begins. Blow after building shattering blow is exchanged. Both warriors using instinct to strike and counter. Over time, Thor realizes that this foe will not be subdued. In fact, her savagery reminds him of the Hulk. He knocks her into a building and as she is sent flying, he calls upon a whirlwind to give himself some cover. As Faora emerges from the building's rubble, all she sees is high speed winds and lightning in the sky. With all his might, Thor calls forth all the lightning he can muster. It completely devastates the area Faora was standing in. She lays unconscious in what was once a building. For good measure, Thor lays Mjolnir on her chest to keep her from escaping. He calls out to Heimdall, "Surely you have seen the devastation this warrior has wrought. I may need some assistance in vanquishing this foe." Thor is assured when he sees the familiar beams of the Bifrost create the sigil upon the ground and his allies come forth.
The reason I think that Thor will win out here is that Faora is overconfident. She has probably never encountered beings as powerful as Kryptonians before, so she would not fight with the effort needed to effectively defeat Thor. Having rewatched her scenes from Man of Steel, she clearly has a preference for using her fists. I think that she would rely on her physical prowess to defeat her enemy not her blade. The reason I feel that Thor would not be subjected to the same overconfidence is that he has already fought something more powerful than him in the past, the Hulk. Knowing this, he knows that Earth is full of surprises and that nothing should be underestimated. Heck, in all the nine realms, who knows what he has fought and killed. He has hundreds of years worth of battle prowess under his belt and that should not be taken lightly.
There is simply not enough evidence for Faora's side. It is kinda hard to say she wins when there is only one movie to draw on for her. I know people think she is bad ass but she only had a handful of screen time actually fighting. There are too many unknowns with her and the Man of Steel Universe in general. Whereas Thor has had 3 movies now and there are a lot less unknowns. His feats are more defined and I can draw from a lot of examples for why Thor would fight the way he did in my scenario. Faora just kinda speed punched everything she saw and stood there to let bullets bounce off her. Whereas Thor has fought many a beast and man in the nine realms including: Ice Giants, Loki, Iron Man, the Hulk, Chitauri, Dark Elves, Malekith, and Kurse. All of whom he had fought in varying ways. Faora is one punch fits all while Thor's style of battle depends on his enemy.
X-Men stories just need to start making progress again. It's kind of annoying how people are STILL prejudice against ALL Mutants. I get that's the whole point of them but character/story development is very much needed.
Yeah, I mean people aren't still prejudiced against African Americans, Muslims, or the LGBT community anymore right? Oh wait...
That shade of green is so ugly, I hate it when Jean wears green. I also hate it when colorists give her a color of hair that is just so severe. No one has red hair like that.
You do know you are criticizing hair color in a book where one of the characters can shoot lasers right? But regardless of that, I have known several people with some vibrantly red hair without the aide of coloring.
I like when people get mad at stuff like this. Seriously, if you look at histories of characters all kinds of ludicrous stuff happens to major characters. Does anyone remember when Captain America became a werewolf? How about that clone business with Spider-Man? Wait, Wolverine got a new Adamantium Skeleton by becoming a Horseman of Apocalypse? Yeah, you may be mad now, but it doesn't stick to the character all that much.
Dejah thoris, red Sonja, Jane porter and however at dynamite are just as strong as the DC and Marvel women and just because they are revealing does not mean their weak or sexualized. People don't understand that is actually a difference between being just revealing/plain nude and oversexualized/slutty and Dejah thoris and red Sonja are not sluts they are confident in their bodies and fully aware of their capability against male dominance. Dejah thoris lives in another world or society where everyone is naked or revealing in equal terms so its a cultural thing according the original text of Edgar rice Burroughs so there are people on this site not familiar or researching the books.
I completely agree with you there. However, I think people are also taking into account quality. Dynamite books are not very good.
Now wait just a cotton-picking minute. If you're going to do this for female characters, you should do Male characters too. You know how Liefield portrays all of his males as muslcebound jocks? Yeah....
But they aren't being made to be objects of sexualization. That is the main difference.
First, a admittance. I have not read Batwoman so I just want to get that out of the way. With that said, I just want to express my opinion.
1, This is obviously NOT about her being gay, or gay marriage. The book itself (from what I gathered) has had gay couples, gay situation, and DC has been actually a little overboard in advertising their support of gay characters (Looking at you green lantern from earth 2). This is just about not having superheroes married period...and I honestly agree with this policy. Superman and Lois lane? Spiderman and marry jane? etc. I honestly hated those marriages, and you soon run out of things to talk about them. Eventually the married person just because a generic Lois lane, someone to save over and over again, or have the character go through some badly contrived reason they have marriage problems. It gets old. Couples are fine, they can stay together as long as there is something appealing, but break apart and have the person paired with someone else if they need a new face. I love that superman and lois lane are coworkers/friends but nothing more. Hope they stay that way. Superman is much better without him turning into previous creepy emo superman whenever he thinks about lois.
2, The talk about batman beating or going to a stalemate with batman should NOT happen. It will feel wrong. Other bat wearing characters are NOT batman, they are wannabe batman and not the real deal. There is no way in hell I will believe this person could beat or end in a stalemate batman one on one. This is a guy who has been OBSESSED since his tragic childhood to defeating crime no matter what. He has attended the best schools, went across the world to learn from masters, have done training that would kill lesser men and women, he has pushed himself both physically and mentally at the maximum endurance of what is possible. This is a guy who runs what if scenarios of if this person decides to go bad or fight batman what would he do. I am sure he has a file on batwoman and knows a lot about her. I am also sure he has run scenario after scenario of possible situations, and backup plan scenario of his backup plan scenario. Why? Because he is the batman and that is what he does.
3, A lot of responses are neejerk reactions, we need more info before making a full opinion. A lot of false info is floating around about this decision being made because the character was gay and this is just inflaming people.
4, it does suck the change came in the last minute. The creators have my sympathy and understanding on how dickish that was by DC.
I definitely recommend Batwoman, it is a really great book in terms of writing and art.
1) While you are right that the they showed their relationship and support homosexuality (granted mainly through tokenism and not by making real characters), but editorial allowed the characters to get engaged. A lot of the frustration is that Editorial would be okay with engagement and not marriage. What did they expect to happen? Perpetual engagement? I personally think that editorial wanted either Batwoman or Maggie to die, but that is just me. And while there is a lot of examples of marriage outside of Spidey and Supes, the point of a marriage is showing the evolution of a characters and how a character changes/grows up. Spidey and Supes are not the only people that have shown growth from their marriages. I mean look at Sue and Reed Richards. Granted their marriage isn't perfect, but damn does their marriage show how complex their characters are. There many other examples, but I feel that they personify marriage done right.
2) While it is true each member of the Bat family outside of Bruce is not at all like Bruce, that is what makes their characters so cool. Each one of those people were inspired or influenced by Bruce one way or another. Dick grew up to become one of DC's greatest heroes. Tim is an example of the normal well adjusted person wanting to take up the crusade. Barbara has suffered from Bruce's work, but still wants to continue to fight crime. FYI I am drawing mainly from pre-52 knowledge, I know these characters are all kinds of changed now. Being part of the Bat family does not mean equality to Bruce's prowess. The Bat Family is merely Bruce's sphere of influence. Not to mention each member of the Bat family brings something different from the table. Diversity that makes for great stories and awesome character-to-character dynamics.
3) While you are right that a lot of reaction is knee-jerk, I would again look to my first point. Editorial allowed engagement, but marriage? That is what continues to baffle me. It is just weird.