lb70145's forum posts
Again, I try to have civil confrontations and share knowledge with people on these forums. Some people just can't handle that, especially when they respond with hate speech and calling people names. I've worked with many patients that are always on the defensive. You are acting in the same fashion. I did not aim to insult you at all.
I apologize if you take any of my remarks, present and past, personally. Seriously, when you react to people in the future, whether its on the forums or in real life, look at what is being said and think before acting. This could have been a exchange of knowledge but instead devolved into insults fueled by ignorance and the over zealous defense on one's favorite character. I am giving advice and met by accusations. There have been misconceptions between opinion and fact, on both sides. Hopefully people are able to be more understanding of your behavior than I. I proved the Punisher is insane using my observations. Like or not, they are there for anyone to read. If truly like the character this much, then honor that with good counter-argument. Anyone can make contentions against my observations, in fact I welcome that. However, you have only proved you love this character. That's great. But there are going to be people who read my arguments. Some will agree and some won't. In the end, I set out to make my observations and succeeded. Whether you call me an ass or accuse me of calling you crazy is irrelevant. Anyone who disagrees with me is welcome to. I would really like to see someone prove to me Frank is sane/not have PTSD. Disagreeing with someone is perfectly fine.
Just a little side note I forgot to mention on a previous post. Iron Man is currently near broke and hasn't touched a drink in a while. He is a real interesting character when given the chance. Just putting that out there.
Also, a few things...
1) I did not say I don't like Punisher because he has bad morals. Granted he does. But I don't like him because he is a dry, one note, flat character. I like characters with depth. I have issues with the morals/actions of many characters, but that doesn't stop me from liking them. Characters like Green Arrow and Iron Man instantly come to mind. Punisher is just a dull character in my opinion. That is why I don't like him. Even Rucka has said that he is a very simple character. He's a product of the 80s. He had the same rise to popularity as Wolverine because of the fact that he was different. He was willing to kill. Like I said before, Ennis wrote some awesome Punisher stories. Other than that, Punisher stories I have read before are just uninteresting. You can't change that. If you like that fine, but you have to accept that there are people that don't like this character. Why do you think he hasn't been popular lately. The violence wagon he rode on in the 80s doesn't work anymore. Sales of Punisher books have been low ever since. Because of the fact that he is generally uninteresting. I mean he is just Batman if Batman were willing to kill and more crazy.
2) I can read well, but you need to watch what you say. In your words exactly, "I don't like superman and Captain America but you want see me going to there forums on here bitching about them. " The reason why I bring up grammar and spelling is this exactly. I had to guess at what you meant. You said here and use the incorrect version of there. You meant to say their. As you can see it is hard to argue with people when they barely write properly. The sentence doesn't make sense. Either way you still bad mouthed Captain America on a Comic Vine Forum. Thus, I pointed it out that you lied. However, since you meant to say something else I apologize for calling you a liar. You merely gave an incorrect statement and I reacted to the incorrect statement.
3) I didn't give opinions to prove his insanity. I gave observations to prove his insanity. I was just pointing out aspects of his personality.
4) I have plenty of argument left. However you have yet present any decent arguments. I can definitely continue to prove Frank's insanity if you wish as well as point out very big flaws with the Punisher's character and moral code. I only pointed out your grammar so I can correctly argue against you. I pointed out your insult to me because I don't this to turn to a flame war. And I pointed out your swearing because I want to keep this civil. You make what you want of this, but I don't want you to get in trouble. I am only looking out for you buddy.
Other than that I am going to give you three side notes here buddy.
1) You don't have to swear in order to convey frustration nor do you have to call out my bias. I clearly state that I am biased when I stated my opinion. But my opinions did not create fact. The fact was there and I revealed it. My opinions were the only things I created. Also, misspellings and hastened words do not make a good argument on your part.
2) Also, don't lie. You clearly stated your dislike against Captain America in earlier comments. I can read too :)
@cody1984 said:
@cmaprice said:@cody1984 said:@cmaprice said:Joss Whedon knows nothing about psychological complexity, you are so right.@cody1984 said:When it came to writing the Punisher Josh Whedon was an idiot.The Punisher is written way out of character again by an idiot.Out of character, perhaps, but Joss Whedon in far from an idiot. In terms of the how often he's out of character business, I personally feel it's a grey area. Characters like Frank have been written so many ways, it feels only fitting we should see him as being absolutely nuts and inconsistent. At the core, his rules are arbitrary and full of double standards, even when written correctly.I agree, though, that he probably wouldn't kill kids for simple theft. But let's keep in mind, the Runaways were largely rumored to have killed their own supervillain parents to take over their crime syndicate and here, they're working with Kingpin. Frank's first appearance was a mission to take out Spider-Man under false pretenses. How old was Pete at the time? The Punisher has historically often gone on bad intel. He's not nearly as calm and meticulous as his MAX depiction.As far as the Punisher's going on bad intelligence goes it depends on the writer largely. Matt Fraction had him look rather dumb most of the time Rick Remender did okay but Ennis is way out of there league when it comes to writing the Punisher. Some people can't write certain characters at all whether its because they don't like them, they don't have the talent, and/or they just don't get the characters. Josh Whedon's take on the Punisher is pretty straight forward idiotic approach showing that he didn't like the character, he lacks the talent to write him since he's not used to dealing with a character like him, and he doesn't get Frank Castle at all.
Be glad the Punisher won't be seen in Joss's Avengers film, then, because he'd be written like an idiot. Completely unlike the last Punisher film. Heh.
@cody1984 said:As far as Captain America not being around goes that would be a great thing. The character is absolutely disrespectful in every sense of the word to everyone who in real life fought in WW2. The concept of Captain America I find disgusting to say the least since he doesn't represent the U.S. in any sense of the word since the U.S. is to diverse. So Captain America being the poster boy of what America is suppose to be I find god awful and Stan Lee shouldn't have brought the character back.Triple LOLz. He represents the iconic propaganda of the American Dream of the early to mid 20th Century. If you're holding him up to the standard of having to represent every citizen, that isn't even remotely Marvel's problem. No character can do that. It doesn't at all disrespect any real soldier of the era. Cap started out diegetically as a publicity stunt for recruitment. He's a product of his time and his government. He's as much an anachronism and an ironic symbol as he is anything else. He works on many levels to many people. He's nowhere near potentially insulting as the Punisher to real life veterans. As a Vietnam vet, he fits so many negative stereotypes. But are those stereotypes used as a jumping off point as a meta critique, or are they merely exploitative? Depends on the writer, as does Cap. Read up on Isaiah Bradley. Steve Rogers is just one part of a larger picture.None of Joss Whedon’s characters are like the Punisher. He writes off the wall characters the vast majority of the time. So writing a black humor, gritty, noir style character he is not familiar with. I'd take the Punisher: War Zone movie version of Frank Castle over Joss Whedon's any day of the week and twice on Sunday.Your right Captain America represents propaganda that's why can't stand the concept of him. Him constantly fighting clones of Hitler, his descendents, and supposedly killing Hitler is f****** disgrace full to everyone involved in WW2. The Punisher is one guy who became the Punisher over a lifetime of events from his dropping out of the church not going through becoming a priest to his childhood, to Vietnam, and the murder of his family. The Punisher doesn't try to represent Vietnam War veterans or any war Veterans for that matter. As and Iraq war veteran myself I can't find the character offensive since he doesn't claim to represent me or others unlike Captain America. My problem also isn't with Steve Rogers he could go on living or not living in the marvel universe I could care less either way my problem is with the concept of Captain America.
3) Also, insulting a person is not going to help your argument ever.
I really don't have to state anything else. I don't need to dismantle your statements anymore. You did that for me. ;)
Frank is definitely schizophrenic. When you looked up insanity maybe you should have looked up schizophrenia as well.
According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders(DSM-IV-TR), to be diagnosed with schizophrenia, three diagnostic criteria must be met:
- Characteristic symptoms: Two or more of the following, each present for much of the time during a one-month period (or less, if symptoms remitted with treatment).
- Delusions
- Hallucinations
- Disorganized speech
- Grossly disorganized behavior or catatonic behavior
- Negative symptoms: Blunted affect (lack or decline in emotional response), alogia, or avolition
Here we see that Frank suffers from 1 and 5.
His view of life is purely delusional. If he truly thinks that he is acting in the right then he is delusional. A Delusion is a fixed false belief. The truth is, he kills people, takes their money/things and doesn't abide by the law in any sense of the word. Granted he kills bad people. However, fighting evil and doing good are not the same thing.
As for Negative symptoms, he has turned into a cold blooded killer. He sees the world as black and white. He doesn't feel remorse for killing, unless their innocent people. The major contention I am making with his schizophrenia, is the fact that he has lost touch with humanity and society. He takes life with the hesitation of a hungry lion hunting a fat antelope. He is a living version of the Terminator. He is Dexter with guns.
Also, you should have looked up PTSD as well. His experience in Vietnam and the death of his family, are more than enough to physically and psychologically damage any individual. Bullying can cause PTSD. If getting shoved into a locker can cause PTSD, his time in Vietnam and the iconic death of his family is enough to cause PTSD. Did he experience traumatic events? Yes. Does he have flashbacks to those events? Yes. Emotional Numbing? Yes. Increased responses (i.e. anger issues, hypervigilance )? Yes. Lasts for more than 1 month? Yes. Does the experience cause impairment? Yes, I do believe he just met all the requirements of PTSD.
Knowing your actions alone are not evidence of sanity. Having reason and logic is not evidence of sanity. Knowing his actions and being logical is evidence that the is calculated. Even the most calculated, tactical and brilliant people can be insane. His being able to stand trial in the marvel universe is not evidence of his sanity. Most people who are considered unfit to stand trial later on stand trial. So that point is moot as well.
My personal opinion is this. All analysis and fact aside. As much as the Punisher is this giant vengeance fantasy. Vengeance does not solve anything. His family is dead. They are not coming back. Killing in their memory is no different than killing in the name of God. Killing is killing. And killing is wrong. He is not a hero in any sense of the word in my opinion. Saving lives by taking the lives of others is philosophical debate we are not settling here. This is my opinion and I ask that you please respect that.
Frankly (no pun intended), the Punisher was a character that lived long past his entertainment value. He is a dry, one note, flat character. Ennis' Punisher has been the only readable Punisher story in recent memory. His recent stint as FrankenCastle, is evidence of his decline into self-parody. "The Punisher in the white boots" is a part of the Marvel Universe that is uninteresting and completely silly. He's the one character trying to be "dark and serious" in a crowd of colorful characters. It doesn't work. He doesn't work. The Punisher is a Joke. Sorry about the rant, but this character doesn't deserve so much attention. Again, this is just my opinion.
But don't get me wrong there are several characters like the Punisher that I disagree with and full out dislike. I am sorry if I offended you with my opinion, yet I am entitled to that opinion as you are.
@LB70145 said:I'm sorry but your statements don't make any sense. How do you go from Frank not being insane to if he was insane he would be killing cops and superheros? How does being fully aware of his actions and being able to make rational choices/using logic make one sane? Maybe you should check out the definition of insanity. Also, I did not say his war is insane. HE is the one that is insane. I am not arguing morality/ethics. I am saying the guy has some serious mental issues and he is certifiably insane. Notice I do not talk about his actions specifically, I talk about the behaviors he has displayed in his history.@cody1984: I am pretty sure that it has been confirmed that Frank is certifiably insane. PTSD, Sociopathic tendencies, Antisocial and I am pretty sure overwrought with Paranoia.
Frank's not insane if he was he would've killed a lot of cops and superheroes by now since he has had the opportunity to do so many times. The Punisher is fully aware of his actions and clearly capable of making rational choices and using logic in his dealings with others. People might view his war as insane and we can argue all day long whether or not its morally right the point is though that his war might be viewed by others as nuts doesn't mean that Castle is insane.
@Matthevv said:
Outside of him being mind controlled when has he gunned down people for committing misdemeanors? Also the when it comes to Tatiana Arocha Frank was being affected by a mind controlling machine making him kill.The punisher is simply the worst hero of all time. He's an insane mass murderer with the ethics capacity of a 5 year old. He kills innocents all the time. He kills people for misdamenors. Here's another fun one, when he was blending in with Neo Nazi's he beats his friend's fiance' to death with a crowbar, and then afterward ends up just shooting the Neo Nazi's. There you go. Killed innocents, kills everyone. No morals, no logic. Just an awful character.
However, remember this is a comics universe. Does it really matter that Frank is mentally stable? No. Cause he is going to continue killing more people than most villains will.
I want to say that the Punisher has shot/killed innocents before. His policy is that if he does kill an innocent he will do the time in jail for it.
I thought that Cap turned down the magnet glove that Stark made for him in the 60s. Whenever the shield ricochets and comes back is all a matter of the awesomeness and skill that Cap possesses.
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