Well all the well known have been choosen, but there are quite a few hidden gems out there.
Verigo's Enigma comic Michael Smith &
A now pretty obscure comic and it took me forever to get through it bc of all the existential crazy running amuck making me re-read like whoa, but when I did finish it I was quite pleased and vexed with the series and it's approach to storytelling through the art and characters.
It's one hella unique coming to terms tale I'll say...
Goota love how dedicated his relationship with death is. I'm down for pretty much whatever Will is up to bc he is just fascinating to read.
@sethysquare: I said reminiscent meaning it reminded me of what happened, not that they were the same thing. I was using that case to connect how an unrepresented demographic was represented before being rebooted. Then after the reboot, that group of people who felt represented by these characters or liked the characters for what they stood for becoming alienated fans. For Babs it was being in a wheel chair and now she isn’t. With Amanda it was that she was a fat black woman of action who now isn’t fat. I don’t know where all this talk of perverting things came from because I found a relatable case that coincided with the theme of a physical change. It may not be on the same level in your eyes, but that doesn’t negate that is what it is. I could see if these characters were common placed or at least more represented, but they aren’t.
Hearing you care about the health of your daughter is awesome bc that is what a parent is supposed to do. Parents teach their children what’s right and wrong. Comics glorify a lot of stuff good and bad, its up to the parents to make sure their kids know the difference. Just because that super strong awesome chick can bench press cars and fights dudes who carry knives and guns in a bikini and no bullet proof anything on, doesn’t mean it’s ok for you to do it honey. You cannot blame a fictional characters existence for the folly of all youth when there is a lapse in parenting. If a child is copying what they see in comics and idolizing the characters to the point of mimicry (and im not talking about just taking the plausible aspects of role model behavior that is cool for them to learn like being a lawyer like she-hulk, or a great detective like Batman), there are a lot of things besides your kid becoming fat that you should be worried about if they are taking comic idolization to that extent. If they think Bane is cool they might start shooting up, if they think wolverine is the best there is, they might start taping knives to their hands and chasing bullies. The list really goes on and on with comics because it can be so many different things. You may not be able to always control what kids see, but you can instill common sense by talking to your children about what’s good or bad from what they are absorbing.
Then the thing about obese children… for a whole nother bag of “it must be nice” I’m trying to keep this short, but it’s proving hard; I’ve lost family to fat related issues just as I’ve lost family who had no clinical ailments to stroke and heart attacks who weren’t fat. One, I have and know families who have old fat grandparents in their 70s+ who have always been some version of big. Death sentences come in many ways and there are tons of things that people do every day to avoid getting one early, but whether fat, skinny, fit, or in between, none of this guarantees anything of it’s your time to go. Two, If you weren’t taught any better, you don’t know any better. It may seem like something that is common sense, but you are not born educated in these matters, you learn it. A child can’t help if they are spoiled rotten and fat, and as much as you may not like them, that’s all in the upbringing.
I know from experience what it is like to come from a place where kids eat the rite kinds of foods a few days out of the week and go starving the rest, or eat the wrong kinds of things and be thankful they aren’t hungry but wind up with high blood pressure later on from all the sodium from cheap food. Most parents have a hard time seeing their children go without when they love them so they do what they must. As for adults, you’re grown and can do what you want. What you are is up to you for the most part. If you go through surgery and lose weight, so be it. If you work it off the hard way, so be it. You meet yourself half way, so be it. You stay fat, so be it. Either way all these people exist in the world for man woman and everything in between. Not showing they exist in a comic isn’t going to change the fact that they exist. That’s not glorifying, that’s just keeping it real.
Though again, this was not an argument about how unhealthy a lifestyle Amanda lived when she was off panel that contributed to her appearance. Though it’s not like the woman was shown stuffing food down her throat every time she was shown in comics/cartoons like cookie monster subliminally telling all children it’s ok to eat cookies and junk food all day. She was shown being in charge. Not sitting at the desk telling her operatives she wants a batch Turkish delights every five seconds. What I’ve been making a point about is
how much of a rarity a woman of her stature being portrayed as a figurehead of authority in comics and not a joke or background decorations was, and the importance she meant to the crowed that identified with her for those reasons.
She was the one and only in any mainstream comic universe to represent this demographic of women to such an awesome extent and she did it while being a big black woman combo package that didn’t apologize or make excuses for herself.
Big black women do exist. There are fat black women who are judge, nurses, and all kinds of other professions that have the capacity of being viewed as inspiring and or in power. Big black women also read comics. Why can’t a big black woman have someone represent them that isn’t the butt of a joke or a vicious stereotype? Villainous or heroic, I’m game; Amanda was good at booth and plenty folks liked that about her as I’m sure there were those who didn’t.
Fat guys can feature and exist in comics, and out of shape average guys can to, but the one of a kind Amanda Waller can’t bc she is a bad role model for children? Because no one could look up to her? Comics are filled with good and bad role models. If I had a son telling me he wanted to be just like Magneto (before his new found conscience) I would have to sit him down and have a good long talk on why that’s a bad idea. Secondly that’s a really big generalization to make. There is a whole population you glossed over that you haven’t connected with that appreciated her before. Sure she may not have appealed to all the kiddies, but you can’t speak for an entire audience. Other people besides kids find comic characters appealing and enjoyable too.
Idk what race you are, your beliefs, or even what you look like, so a character like her may make you feel uncomfortable, or even be against everything you believe in, but just because she was an offense to you, doesn’t mean she was one to the people who did like her and yes, they existed before flashpoint bc I am one of them. She was mighty dang inspirational the way she was. She represented a demographic of black women I have known all my life and it was amazing to see that represented in cartoons and then finding out she existed in comics before that. I was just in middle school when the Justice League cartoon was around and saw her as the woman you don’t want to get on bad sides with. She reminded me of a few other woman who I love dearly growing up and it was like watching them interact with the rest of the super special people of the fantasy world that we normally didn’t exist in.
It wasn’t till years later after getting back into comics and catching up on some animated movies did I really get to know her more and appreciate her character and complexities to feel a sense of pride that a member of my community and someone who at least represented a facet of me (I don’t think I’d ever have the gull to command a group like Suicide Squad or work next to Lex Luthor) who could tell the Justice League they better watch themselves and it was taken seriously because they had mad respect for her and the know that she could follow through.
On the kids read comics, why yes they do, but kids are not the only ones reading comics these days. Most comics kids want feature heroes that have been spotted in movies. The average comic readers who would be interested in a title with Amanda are older and/or comic fans that are in their teens or well into adulthood. You can go look up all the different averages on the age groups of people reading comics these days and kids aren’t the largest demographic in any of them. Probably why the super redonculous in your face sexuality that goes on (not to say it has never been a part of comics, but you’ve seen covers these days) gets permitted in comics these days. The audience for it grew up, so the storylines and art did to. In all honesty if I had kids, they wouldn’t be able to buy any comics that weren’t direct movie/tv tie ins that I deemed ok till they were at least 12.
And about that GL movie, I keep feeling like we’ve seen two different movie bc I remember her standing on the side just kind of there and getting knocked over and having a flash back, I’m sure there was something else going on bc it looked like she was wearing her White Queen get up (once I realized they were talking about Angela as Waller) so I’m sure she had to be key to something, but honestly I don’t remember what. I thought she was a lab hand for most of the movie :/ (her lace front was distracting the heck out of me… they really could have done better with that hair). Sr. I doubt any kids who went to see that movie were paying attention to her and that’s the sad truth. Angela Bassett is an awesome actress, but she didn’t lend much to the movie or character besides her face, and if you usually go see movies with Angela Bassett, then this one was way out of the ball park for you and probably totally not what you expected and probably would have been disappointed for confusion of what she was supposed to be doing.
If people can’t like her for everything she stood for then so be it, she’s not your cup of tea. Heaven forbid there is a character that you don’t like. But if people can’t like her until she receives a cosmetic overhaul because she was fat, then it is not the character you are there for. If you’re interested in Waller after seeing that movie, kudos bc there needs to be more woc on front street in comic movies, but they aren’t the same person. You want the cosmetically overhauled character you saw once in a movie over years of animated and comic depictions.
If a fit black woman who whooped but is what needs ti be mandated to tell these new stories, I know a few that could be bought back into the public eye or given some nice treatment like lesse, Vixen. She’s awesome but idk what she’s been up to since the reboot. I love seeing Fatality in New Guardians, it’s awesome to see how far she has come from villain to hero (though she may not be on the team for very long with Beleeze sadly so yeah two steps forward and three back). I enjoy reading about everyday folks who do heroic things through actions as well as deeds as much as I like the totally unbelievable ones. Trying to make the world better through politics or getting out there in the streets is all good and can be used for heroics or villainous deeds, bc all sorts exist.
I thought she was amazing the way she was, you didn’t feel she was a good role model. Whatever tickles your fancy. She could have had an attitude reboot or changed up origins, idk, there are tons of ways to tell new stories with preexisting characters without changing their appearance for superficial reasons. Look at Black Hand. He used to be a joke villain. Not so much these days.
In the long haul if all this reboot Amanda was just origin material back in the day Waller then so be it. Her amazing and relatable back story about being a single parent after losing their spouse and some children to violence getting out of the projects, getting her doctorate, to working in the big leagues as head of covert operations story being an inspiration to other people who enjoy comics or thought comics could never speak for them bc they are for a specific audience only goes out the window (though that sounds like an excellent book rite there).
Now we can see the impact on how she started off in the fields and then rose to the top where along the way she started picking up weight due to how she was able to enjoy more luxuries in life after her grunt days and now gives the orders and makes the big decisions yay! Imma’ have to go and do some catching up, but that is highly doubtful and rebooted Waller is the only Waller in existence (unless something omega cool happened where one of her children is Amanda Waller Jr. and is taking over her mother’s legacy. I’d run with that all day). I’m sure she probably is still pretty boss, and I wouldn’t ignore a book bc she is no longer the big gal I loved to watch before, but I don’t go out my way to make sure everything she makes an appearance in get’s on my pull list either bc to be honest, a part of me is dissapointed.
Anywho what made her awesome before was how much of an icon she was for what she represented to the people who enjoyed her character and to those of us that could relate and found it cool to have a graspable portrayal of another side of life that doesn’t get explored often in these mediums. Everybody who reads comics or the escape into the fantasy will tell ya, there’s nothing like a fantasy that involves you or someone like you/you like.
BTW I just had to check myself bc I thought well maybe there are popular versions of the Penguin that I don’t know about, so I’ll just have to use someone else and went hold on. The Penguin has been and still is a fat little man with a hook noose in a dapper little suit and a secret weapon/all purpose umbrella. If most of that changed, he would not be the icon.
I know this was hella long rite, phew.
@sethysquare:
It's funny (not really when I think about it…) that you
say that about her popularity bc in all honesty it is true. She probably is the
most iconic black woman in the DCu (which is and promoting her should have been
a joyous occasion in the new universe, but the change is reminiscent to what
happened to Oracle. After years of developing a character with a physical
limitation due to an incident in her hero career, Babs was able to maintain her
status by proving she could continue to contribute to heroics with her
leadership skills (and whoop butt sticks hidden in her wheel chair) as Oracle.
It was amazing and very inspirational to see how she was able to continue on
and be an inspiration to so many others feeling invisible, helpless, or just
not represented in her predicament. Letting you know that heroes come in all
walks of life is a beautiful message to send out bc it tells onlookers that you
don't have to look or be a certain way or even have all of your limbs to be a
hero. It may be cheesy or idealistic to the max, but I don't see anything wrong
with that if it is inspiring and touches you personally.
T&A aside, it was really just a big loss for me and a
lot of other ladies (and dudes who appreciate diversity in ladies). As much as
I pride myself on being open and following characters in comics for their stories
and not just looks, it's incredibly hard to overlook when a character you admired
for kickbutt ability and had an appearance that was against the norm, conforms
and is rebooted to look totally different and well... the norm. Could you
imagine if Nightcrawler no longer looked like a fuzzy blue demon, or the
penguin was 6ft tall and buff? It just totally wouldn’t be the same. If there
were five characters that looked like Amanda it wouldn't be nearly as hard to
get over, but there aren’t. She was one out of how ever many thousands of villains,
heroes, anti/grey, characters there are, for mainstream comics. Now her iconic
look is gone.
I'm glad DC is trying to incorporate diversity into their
comics more bc we live in a very diverse world, but taking an already diverse
element and trying to change it up is like a two steps forward 3 backwards
move. Why bother what isn’t broken? Go fix something that needs fixing. She is
getting more spot light, sure, but it’s not the icon anymore, it’s a body with
the name. I can’t imagine anyone who would contribute into following a comic about
Amanda specifically because they were interested in her and knew her name wasn’t
aware of her distinctive characteristics and wasn’t specifically looking for a
character of her attributes (please don’t mention the awful Green Lantern movie
[sorry if you really liked it] bc I watched the whole thing and didn’t know who
Angela Bassett was supposed to be [an awesome Storm I think she would be, but
Waller? Ahaha-no] until the credits rolled and I saw the name and connected the
flashback scenes). What made her stand apart from the rest of the lady badazzes
is how recognizable she was. From the comics to the cartoons, you knew who
Amanda Waller was when she walked on the screen/panel. That was truly amazing
to have for a woman in her shoes. Not a “super power” in site, but she was
still a recognizable figurehead because of how many key roles she has had
within the DCu and her appearance.
Then from the looks of team 7, she looks like another soldier
on the team. That has to be like a demotion after all of her achievements and
the high positions of authority she held before the reboot :/.Hey commander you’ve
been sent back to boot camp to go through training again. Whut?
@spiderbat87: im just gonna copy paste part of the last convo I had on this matter a few pages back:
I'm not arguing that you need to be able to run a mile in 5 minutes to be black opps at all because they are all expected to be super soldiers and that's cool. I wouldn't expect anything less from a team like that. I was referring to how rare it was to see a woman like Amanda represented in comics bc in the dc and marvel universe she was the only one that represented a lot of women like me and she was not a joke character. She was business, and she wasn't helpless. Amanda knows how to operate a gun and defend herself. You don't need to be a muay thai expert to do that. The skills she had were perfect for the positions she held and the work she did with the Suicide Squad and her other teams.
Waller is a figure of authority who commands the soldiors and grunts, not the actual soldior on the field. Maybe in her younger days, and if that's where they are going with this so be, but since creation that hasn't been her primary character focus. It's been her leadership skills, wit, and fearless attitude.
@Redberry: I don't read/get my comics till Saturday and try to avoid looking at previous like the plague, so I just found out yesterday, but now i'm thinking maybe not so much...
@The Mighty Monarch: Oh lawd, im so late to the train. Made a post and then realized all this up here already haha.
@sethysquare: Im aware that Amanda Waller was obese hence me saying I was sad to see her rebooted version went to a complete comic standard lady. Amanda has always been the big chick who was a bad azz in a position of leadership, that's why she was so appealing to me bc she was a depiction of the variety that women and people in general come in. She wasn't skinny and didn't rely on T&A to take names and be revered bc she was a boss character with attitude, conviction, a sharp mind, and fortitude. Her weight has fluctuated throughout the years to the point where sometimes she has looked like a giant circle, to all that in between, and then looking like she was just above average in weight. Between Bell Reve and the suicide squad, not putting up with the Justice League, Luther, being the face behind Secret Six , and all of her other endeavours being in the DC Universe since she came around in the 80's, she has always been to some extinct plus size and it was really cool to see that exist in the comic world because plus size folks in power do exist and she wasn't to be taken lightly for her lack of powers.
I'm not arguing that you need to be able to run a mile in 5 minutes to be black opps at all because they are all expected to be super soldiers and that's cool. I wouldn't expect anything less from a team like that. I was referring to how rare it was to see a woman like Amanda represented in comics bc in the dc and marvel universe she was the only one that represented a lot of women like me and she was not a joke character. She was business, and she wasn't helpless. Amanda knows how to operate a gun and defend herself. You don't need to be a muay thai expert to do that. The skills she had were perfect for the positions she held and the work she did with the Suicide Squad and her other teams.
The average/above average/under average Joe exists in roles of leadership and power in comics and even cartoons, but it's incredibly rare for ladies in the same position to even be noted of importance in comics/cartoons when they are plus sized or average and she definitely was a symbol of that and it was awesome!
the only one thatd I'd have been excited about was the Team 7, but seeing as how Amanda Waller no longer appeals to me anymore (sigh rebooted Suicide Squad, was it so hard to have one plus size poc lady of action?) none of these sound very enthralling. I hope to see secret six again, or at least catman. I've been reading VooDoo, but in light of recent plot twist, I can't honestly say Id be sad if it went. Same for Red Hood and the Outlaws, I don't understand how something that should have been so good let me down so bad. For the third... hrm, maye resurection man, but Idk where else they can go with the Red Lanterns so leaning more towards them...
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