Why the constant hate on the New 52?

It is natural to argue about the nature of comics

Who is stronger? Who is hotter? Who is a better hero

But the arguments about Marvel and DC, particularly as the New 52 is compared to Marvel NOW, are nonsense. To be explained as such

Argument 1: DC has no good titles except (Insert generally Batman)

On the DC end you have, as of now.

Justice League, JLA, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Nightwing, Batman, Batman and Insert character here, Green Arrow, Animal Man, Justice League Dark, Constantine, Talon, All Star Western, Earth 2, Batwoman, Demon Knights, Batman Incorporated and Red Hood and the Outlaws. These titles are the ones generally regarded as the best rating rise from fan reactions on sight, and I probably missed one or two. (Insert something Justin Jordan is writing, say his Deathstroke, Dial H or Batgirl...)

If you count Dial and Barb's, that's 24 titles out of 52, from a limited perspective. While I read Teen Titans, Superman, New Guardians and a few others, I aimed for the least arguable in this rant here. And to that point, seeing as Green Team isn't out, we can't count it yet, so let's say 24 out of 51, then you have a bunch of average titles: leaving the titles that are generally considered to be 'bad' as few and far between, like World's Finest and Catwoman.

Marvel has good titles, I will not argue that. You have titles that are genually seen as great (Indestructible, Thor, Scarlet, Fantastic, FF), some that break base but are generally good (Superior, Avengers, Uncanny Avengers), and a few that are not doing so hot (Iron Man, Cable and X-Force) But DC's general top of the line pull list isn't as narrow as everyone seems to think

Argument 2; Marvels sells far more titles

Marvel

41.78%

DC

27.72%

Image

9.87%

IDW

5.59%

Dark Horse

4.09%

Dynamic Forces

2.60%

Boom

1.97%

Valiant

1.11%

Zenescope

0.72%

Archie

0.65%

Aspen

0.64%

Avatar

0.54%

Oni

0.33%

Viz

0.30%

Bongo

0.22%

Eaglemoss

0.19%

Random House

0.18%

Hachette

0.12%

Fantagraphics

0.09%

St. Martins

0.05%

Other

1.24%

This table is the percentage of comics sold per company as the industry whole. True, Marvel sells more ,however, their dominance in the market is due to near constant events, movie inflation and double monthing.

Marvel releases events all the time: events like Avengers vs X-Men and Age of Ultron that people rant about a lot. Yet DC doesn't, it's big events are generally once a year and a half.

The movies....well they are good, and get new comics fans. These fans in turn focus on Marvel titles, (and Batman). Though I have an odd feeling the Superman titles will jump after Man of Steel myself.

Now for the double monthing. Many of Marvel's big titles release twice a month. Avengers, All New X-Men, Superior Spiderman, ect. They make up a big percentage of their top titles, so you could almost say that they artificially up the curve.

Without them, Marvel would have this percentage.

Marvel

20. 39%

DC

27.72%

Image

9.87%

IDW

5.59%

Dark Horse

4.09%

Dynamic Forces

2.60%

Boom

1.97%

Valiant

1.11%

Zenescope

0.72%

Archie

0.65%

Aspen

0.64%

Avatar

0.54%

Oni

0.33%

Viz

0.30%

Bongo

0.22%

Eaglemoss

0.19%

Random House

0.18%

Hachette

0.12%

Fantagraphics

0.09%

St. Martins

0.05%

Other

1.24% + 20. 39% the blogger pulled off to distribute

And look, over time comics loose readers: events and author shifts generally are done to reverse this trend. Just think of how many readers started picking up Justice League after the kiss?

And look at Marvel

15Uncanny X-Men4$3.99Marvel80,047
16Uncanny X-Men5$3.99Marvel78,919
11Superior Spider-Man7$3.99Marvel87,945
12Superior Spider-Man8$3.99Marvel85,671

These are the sales of a few comics that come out bi monthly. They drop a couple thousand a month. While the faster comic production helps to start, it also hastens the decay.

Sales aside, the following titles were top of the Market after the first New 52 titles was launched, that are not Number 1's or events: Justice League 2-6, Walking Dead 100, Amazing Spiderman 700 and Batman 19. Only one non number 1 was on top for Marvel, and considering what 700 was, it isn't all that different really.

3: DC's titles are being cancelled like crazy

DC has cancelled a few titles, yes. From ones who never should have been conceived (G.I Combat after Man of War), to bad writing (Static, anything Rob Liefeld touched) to being somewhat niche (Demon Knights, Swords and Sorcery), titles have been lost to the New 52. If you count them up, it's 6 plus 4 plus 4 plus 2 plus 6 plus 4 plus Batman Inc, which is ending due to it's story ending, not ratings. That leaves 26 titles lost, with replacements. However, let's not forget that Marvel's time with NOW is just begone: NOW began in October, which was about 7 months ago.Marvel also ended a lot of titles to begin NOW, many of which were favorites. And still some are going out, like Dark Avengers (no one cares about it) or X-Factor (Got a lot of fans upset about it). Let me tell you, though, that Marvel Now will soon start loosing books. From what I understand, Marvel has a 20,000 book cut off line, and several of it's titles are at the cut off point now. Red She Hulk and Morbius for instance, and that is me only discussing launches for NOW. Believe me, soon Marvel will have to start culling it's own herd. DC's cutting policy is flawed, yes, but it does allow for a variable crop of titles to come up. Some like Team 7 wilter, others like Talon sell decently, and introduce a new writer to DC's group who shows promise.

4: Arguing about what you don't actually read

Perhaps this is the true reason?

Is the New 52 perfect? No. But neither is Marvel. Lost characters will return one day: the writers, such as Synder, Simone and Morrison are working to get Batgirl 2 and 3 back. The Kent's had to wait 4 decades to get shown as alive in SuperMAN stories, they'll be back before 2016 at the latest.

And yes, writers are currently in the process of departing in odd numbers, but these writer things happen. Look over at Marvel: in Civil War the writers were probably more at Civil War than their characters.

Before you bash the New 52, consider some of these points

16 Comments
16 Comments
Posted by colonyofcells

There are always old customers complaining every time dc does reboots. Dc will continue to do more reboots as seen in the recent Stormwatch reboot and the recent Green Arrow reboot.

Edited by Teerack

who is that next to Namor? and who is to the left of Robin? Also I didn't know Ben Riley was the Spider-Man in DC vs Marvel.

Posted by ccraft

seem you were just naming good stuff for Marvel

Posted by The Stegman

Although the New 52 has many flaws that irk me, most of them continuity wise, as a whole I enjoy a lot of the stories. At the end of the day, some people have just reasons for complaining, others just want something to rebel against.

Online
Edited by Veshark

@teerack said:

who is that next to Namor? and who is to the left of Robin? Also I didn't know Ben Riley was the Spider-Man in DC vs Marvel.

Jubilee, I believe. Left of Robin is Aquaman (90s look) and Superboy (90s look)

Posted by colonyofcells

Thor vs Captain Marvel, Jubilee vs Robin, Spider Man vs Superboy. Marvel right now has more popular characters and Dc needs to try harder to compete with the x-men franchise and Guardians of the Galaxy. Dc's other icons are also losing badly such as Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Hawkman, etc.

Edited by FlashDamn

@krspacet:Gambit and Red She Hulk are officially cancelled now.

Posted by Teerack

@veshark: OOOH! Jubilee duh... it looked like they had a yellow cloak and I thought they were a dude :P

And forgot all about Aqua man's 90's look cuz I didn't ream most of DC's 90's because the artist were all just discovering cocaine and it showed :P

@flashdamn: Gambit is? I thought Red She-Hulk was and everyone wanted Gambit canceled instead.

Posted by colonyofcells

X-men are doing ok as team titles. Maybe Marvel should just try doing more Hulk comics instead of the other color Hulks. In dc, Supergirl and Superboy are also not selling well.

Posted by krspaceT

@flashdamn: Hmm, wonder why there isn't an article on it, or did it come up in the 20 minutes I was out. If not, I claim conspiracy from Comic Vine to be Pro Marvel! CONSPIRACY I SAY!

@ccraft said:

seem you were just naming good stuff for Marvel

I had to show I didn't view Marvel as bad on principle. It makes me feel more legit

Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose

Anyone else think it's a little odd that Eaglemoss is on that percentage list?

Posted by ccraft

So why is the title called "Why the constant hate on the new 52"?

Posted by krspaceT

@ccraft: Because I am calling attention to some of the complaints with logical counter arguments that are pro New 52

Posted by Queso6p4

@krspacet: Very nice breakdown. My complaints are mostly for bland writing, editing snafus, and continuity nonsense. I have enjoyed a handful of titles but have dropped or lost faith in about the same number of issues, sadly.

Posted by ccraft

@krspacet:

I don't mean to come off as someone who doesn't like the new 52, but I don't get much from DC except Batman and JL related books. I get even less Marvel books, Savage Wolverine, Avengers, New Avengers. <- and those I haven't even collected all the issues.

I guess I'm just trying to say is Marvel seems like a better company comic title wise, and I might start getting more of Marvel.

Posted by Primebonnick

the only issues i have with the new 52 are the new lobo, that shocking interpretation of lucifer morningstar in hell knight and the lack of wally west and donna troy (i hope they appear down the line). People will just always have something to complain about in comics i guess