King Saturn's forum posts

#1 Posted by King Saturn (224437 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn said:

I already looked up the passages that's why I said what I said earlier... neither genealogy has Mary as the descendant of David it says Joseph... now you can say that the "Logical Explanation" is that Luke is dealing with Mary lineage... but then why does it not actually say so ?

Because Jewish tradition says lineages are only recorded from the fathers. Furthermore in Matthew 1:16 it said "...Jacob begot Joseph..." while in Luke 3:23 it said "...Joseph, who was the son of Heli,..". "Begot" aka producing a child would mean to say that Jacob is Joseph's biological father, while "son of" can have different meanings because Joseph can, according to Jewish law, become the legal son of someone else by marrying his daughter.

Your first line almost kills your argument... if Jewish Tradition says that Lineages are recorded from the Fathers only then how can Luke be of Mary's Lineage ? Where else in Luke does he ever say that Mary is of David Lineage or even try to ? I mean in Luke 1 : 26 - 27 you have Joseph being called from the House of David and Mary as a footnote. Then again, in Luke 2:4 we have mention of Joseph being of the house of David... my thing is this, if Luke was trying to somehow show us that this lineage is of Mary... then why is it everywhere else where we have evidence of only Joseph being of the House of David ? They can't give any kind of footnote of Mary being of the House of David somewhere in Luke ?

#2 Posted by King Saturn (224437 posts) - - Show Bio

So the assumption is what now ?

#3 Posted by King Saturn (224437 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn said:
@mandarinestro said:

@pooty: @king_saturn:

Pooty, I'll answer the first question since I have the time. The rest will have to wait.

If you haven't noticed before there are two different genealogies of Jesus in Matthew 1 and Luke 3:23-31. You can look up the Bible verses on the internet (too long to paste here) just read the names before Joseph, and you'll immediately notice the difference. Strangely enough, both genealogies say Jesus is the son of Joseph, but with different ancestors? How can this be? The Christian approach to interpreting this would be the genealogy in Luke is Jesus' genealogy from Mary. Yes, both of his parents are descendants of David.

Excerpt from Luke 3:

31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,

This further fulfills Jesus prophecy as both descendant of David and as king, because the line of Solomon (Joseph's line) was denied the throne of the entire Israel (the Old Testament says the kingdom split into the Kingdom of Judah and the Kingdom of Israel) while Nathan's line would still be worthy of the throne.

Man are you trying to play us ? How can Jesus be a descendant of David when the lineage in both Matthew and Luke goes through Joseph ? Joseph was not actually Jesus father as his father was obviously Yahweh... and neither one of these passages show that Mary was a descendant of King David. If so, please show us.

I already told you to look up those verses so you can see what I'm talking about. In Matthew 1 it says Joseph is the son of Jacob, while Luke 3:23 says he is the son of Heli. The difference goes on as it says in Matthew 1 Jacob's father is Matthan while in Luke 3: 23 the father of Heli is Matthat; the genealogy further diverges. If we use Matthew 1 then Solomon, Son of David would be Joseph's ancestor while if we use Luke 3:23 then Nathan, Son of David would be Joseph's ancestor. The only logical explanation would be Luke 3:23-31 is supposed to be Mary's line because in Jewish tradition, Jewishness is inherited from the mother although family would be accounted from the father.

I already looked up the passages that's why I said what I said earlier... neither genealogy has Mary as the descendant of David it says Joseph... now you can say that the "Logical Explanation" is that Luke is dealing with Mary lineage... but then why does it not actually say so ?

#4 Posted by King Saturn (224437 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: @king_saturn:

Pooty, I'll answer the first question since I have the time. The rest will have to wait.

If you haven't noticed before there are two different genealogies of Jesus in Matthew 1 and Luke 3:23-31. You can look up the Bible verses on the internet (too long to paste here) just read the names before Joseph, and you'll immediately notice the difference. Strangely enough, both genealogies say Jesus is the son of Joseph, but with different ancestors? How can this be? The Christian approach to interpreting this would be the genealogy in Luke is Jesus' genealogy from Mary. Yes, both of his parents are descendants of David.

Excerpt from Luke 3:

31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,

This further fulfills Jesus prophecy as both descendant of David and as king, because the line of Solomon (Joseph's line) was denied the throne of the entire Israel (the Old Testament says the kingdom split into the Kingdom of Judah and the Kingdom of Israel) while Nathan's line would still be worthy of the throne.

Man are you trying to play us ? How can Jesus be a descendant of David when the lineage in both Matthew and Luke goes through Joseph ? Joseph was not actually Jesus father as his father was obviously Yahweh... and neither one of these passages show that Mary was a descendant of King David. If so, please show us.

#5 Posted by King Saturn (224437 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17 said:

@pooty said:

@mandarinestro said:

@pooty said:

@mandarinestro: Cool. How do you decide which things are literal and figurative? You brought up the prophecy of Jesus. There were many prophecies a person had to fulfill in order to be the Messiah. Over a hundred. Jesus did not fulfill them all. How can he be the Messiah?

Can't type them all here, so I'll just give you a link.

http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html

Sorry it took so long, too busy with schoolwork.

Thanks. Take your time. No rush. I went through the list and found a few things that make it nearly impossible for Jesus to be the Messiah:

1) Jesus has to be a descendent of David. Jesus was not. Matthew 1:16 states: and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah

Joseph was not Jesus father. So Jesus is not a descendent of David. and there are about 8 scriptures that say the Messiah MUST be a descendent of David. Jesus is not.

2) Luke 1:33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end

Jesus never reigned over the house of Jacob and he never had a kingdom. In fact 1 John 5:19 says: and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one

3) Psalms 100:5 says: " For the Lord is good and his love endures forever". Jesus himself says he is not 'good" at Mark 10:18 Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone

4) though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. Jesus made a whip out of rope and ran the sellers out of the temple. also Jesus had deceit. Jesus said if you believe in him then you will never die. he said if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you can move a mountain. he said ask anything in his name and he will give it to you

There were some other minor ones but the biggest imo is that he is not a descendent of David. But the other ones make good points also. Respond when you can. Thanks

Jesus is descendant from David through Nathan; this is established in the Gospels.

I thought Joseph was the descendant of David through Nathan... and since Joseph is only Jesus stepfather... then how can Jesus be a descendant of David ?

#6 Posted by King Saturn (224437 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmmm... a Marvel Eternity action figure would be Interesting.

#7 Posted by King Saturn (224437 posts) - - Show Bio

Just a quick thought, why is it that when some people make these battles like this... they tend to use multiple characters who can do nothing in the battle but get killed... Black Widow, Hawkeye, Captain America are useless here.

#8 Posted by King Saturn (224437 posts) - - Show Bio

Powerful Titan

#9 Posted by King Saturn (224437 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by King Saturn (224437 posts) - - Show Bio

Trying to scare the sh!t out of us, Russelmania ?