@comicstooge: Thank you for the complement but I'm really no more intelligent than most people, my arguments simply come from experience and years of observation which I like to call the gift and curse of internet forums. Because of the anonymity that we get on forums, it brings out the worst in people. Some users will rarely think before posting because they don't have to worry about the consequences or humiliation that one would garner from having a discussion face to face.
But I digress, as I said it's a personal observation, and it's why I rarely come to forums anymore, because for every reasonable person I meet there are 10 dingle berries waiting to gang troll you than run back to the flock claiming a victory
@cerberusprime3k: actually is not a bad feat king kais planet is 10x gravity that of earths so is more dense ,with a simply bunch he pretty much destroyed it but yea i agree that superman would rape vegeta
King Kai's planet that had 10x gravity blew up, the planet in BOTG is a new planet where it is unknown if it has 10x gravity
I'm sorry, but I can understand when people say Super Saiyans and Saiyans have the power to destroy a planet and all and can take some damage, but can any of them take a punch from someone like Superman? I remember when Goku gets hit in the stomach, he just goes down easy and those punches look like they're 30 ton hits the most, I guess. But Superman is a planet buster with his fists. Can any of them take that hit and live?
Characters like Buu, 18 and Cell have all decimated Vegeta with physical attacks and none of them possess Superman's striking power, so there isn't any reason to assume DBZ characters can tank those hits
@comicstooge: There's more inconsistency than a flat void of logic in DBZ. Nappa was able to nuke a city, but Future Trunks used every bit of his power and destroyed only a mountain. Cell was supposedly able to destroy a solar system but Buu had to use a large energy attack to destroy the Earth.
One thing I can objectively agree on is that DBZ characters have impressive energy based destructive powers. I'm more than open to the idea that characters at Super Saiyan levels and above can probably nuke a planet, but their ultimate downfall is their lack of speed, strength, and durability. Because while their powering up their planet/Solar system busting attacks, there isn't anything stopping a character like Superman from punching their heads off, and none of them have shown durability to withstand those level of hits.
Of course the thing that's most lulz worthy is the fact that DBZ fans are still sorely butthurt over Goku losing the Deathbattle.
@thc: My proof is the fact that Namek's year is supposedly longer than Earth's, but lets forget about Namek for a minute
Goku is at about Hulk level here as portrayed by his jumping.
Hulk at his weakest aka Savage Hulk starts off at about 90 tons before he can go into the multi million ton range as his anger grows. Goku before the World Tournament was struggling with 40 tons in his base form. By that accord Goku in base form after the Cell Saga does not possess 1/2 of the physical strength that Savage Hulk in a calm state has, so I'm not sure where you got the idea that Goku at that point was Hulk's level.
If Supreme Kai stated his planet to be "durable" that is different than King Kai specifying "gravity and mass ten times that of Earth."
That's the entire point, if it's smaller and more durable than by the laws of physics that you initially brought up, gravity would be more dense and Satan and his dog wouldn't have been able to run around the planet. The entire point is that DBZ heavily abuses gravity as a means for training and not a measurement of how dense a planet is, so there's no reason to believe that King Kai's planet has 10x Earth's mass or density.
And again it's irrelevant, even if King Kai's planet did have higher density than Earth, that planet is long gone and the planet that Goku is fighting Bills on is a new planet, unless it states in the film that King Kai's new planet has 10x greater than Earth's density, than as far as I'm concerned Goku essentially put a hole in a small planet, whoop-die doo
That moon that Superman destroyed must have been pretty dense for it to even be considered, as Cell destroys moon-sized asteroids as "warm-up" without moving a muscle.
I'm sorry but this really p*sses me off. We've reached the point where people defending DBZ will essentially make things up.
Cell never destroyed anything remotely close to moon sized. We in the anime we saw him smash small asteroids, than a large one that was no where near the size of a moon, with a ki attack, and you know what the irony is? This wasn't even present in the manga making it filler
I also hope Superman wasn't trying very hard when he punched through this teeny tiny moon of presumably pitiful density, because as you can see in the video I posted Goku and Bills were clearly holding back a ton yet Goku's punched clear through a planet of incredible density. If Superman destroyed a little moon, good on him, but that just shows lack of control.
Another lulz worthy post, you're arguing about Superman not exerting control, neither was Goku. He was clearly p*ssed because Bills was toying with him and Goku starting swinging and attacking blindly. I'll also take a teeny tiny moon over a teeny tiny planet that's not even a mile in diameter where a moon is over 2k miles in diameter, and once again unless you show King Kai's new planet having 10x normal gravity, your argument can be thrown out the window.
DBZ clearly doesn't have a different take of gravity its scaling presence throughout the series.
Except that...they do...considering smaller more dense planets like the Supreme Kai's world don't end up crushing puppies and humans to death. Try harder
After his training with King Kai, his Spirit Bomb technique is stated to be planet busting, and is easily weaker than Vegeta's Gallick Gun (Vegeta states it is planet-busting, and in anime filler he uses it to bust a planet), which Goku's x4 Kaioken Kamehameha overpowered.
lololololol Goku hit Frieza with a spirit bomb that garnered energy from multiple planets. Guess what? It didn't destroy Namek ...
So please show much something above planet-busting for Superman, and him surviving something more than a Supernova. Because Frieza is a casual planet-buster, destroyed a planet with 10x the mass of Earth with ease, with a fraction of 1% of his power, he was beaten to a pulp and left to die on a planet's surface that then exploded portraying obvious above planetary durability to blasts; yet Goku's physical punches were crippling his body and causing him to cough up blood. Perfect Cell is a casual solar system buster; and those two were easily swept aside by Goku in base form before the universal martial arts tournament. After the world's martial arts tournament Vegeta proved to be arguably slightly above Goku in SSJ2 form, which when Gohan first used it was 100 times more powerful than SSJ1. Given how much SSJ1 form was evolved, there's no telling how much more powerful Vegeta and Goku were than Gohan was despite the fact that Gohan didn't train and thus was about equal to Dabura, who Vegeta stated he could dominate.
How about showing a DBZ character actually blowing up a solar system because the only thing I've heard so far are character statements.
So lets analyze this for a second, Cell states he can blow up the solar system?
Gohan is capable of matching Cell's solar system busting power while in a weakened state. Here's the hilarious part, if two solar system busting attacks collided with each other, the entire planet would of been vaporized. You could argue about control all you want but no amount of control would stop the impact of these two attacks at the very least leveling the area wound them, at the very best it leaves a smaller crater in the ground
But ok, lets assume Cell can truly destroy a solar system by his own admission
By Superman's own admission he's capable of destroying planets with his punches. The greatest striking feat in DBZ was the one you showed from Battle of the Gods were Goku punched a small hole in a small planet that isn't even 1 mile in diameter, and since it no longer has 10x normal gravity being a new planet, it isn't impressive at all.
Superman's destructive power would be less than a supposed solar system buster, but here's the kicker. Superman doesn't have to charge up his energy and yell out the name of his attack, so while Cell or any DBZ character is charging up a kamehameha wave, final flash or w/e, Superman is free to beat them to death. All the destructive power in the world means nothing if you can't get your attack off before getting wasted, and no one in DBZ has shown durability to withstand this level of physical force
Cell doesn't possess anywhere near enough physical strength or striking power to destroy a planet, or even shatter a moon. The only retort you've shown is that Cell destroyed asteroids, not only were they no where near the size of a moon as you claimed earlier, but it's filler making it non canon.
Of course you might try to argue that Vegeta was much weaker here than in the Buu saga but here it is again
Buu, another character who can't destroy planets or shatter moons with his fist, one hit and Vegeta starts bleeding profoundly. The bottom line is this, If several characters who do not possess a 1% of Superman's striking power can injure and maim him, it doesn't matter how much destructive power you think he has, with that level of durability Supes can and mostly would one shot Vegeta.
@king_bradley: king Kai's planet is more dense then the earth and the moon. Also superman has a wide spread burst damage, while in dbz, they tend to focus all their power in one area to do more damage.
Movie is Canon
Evidence of the movie being canon please
I'll watch it when it's up on youtube but from what I read it stated that the planet was once part of a larger planet, about 100x so until Bills destroyed it and King Kai collected one of the fragments, if anything the mass, density and gravity all stayed the same when King Kai collected the fragment.
edit: someone stated that Akira Toriyama stated it was canon so I can't argue with that.
edit: I just thought of something, Cell destroyed King Kai's planet and was brought back later, so we'd need evidence of this new planet having 10x greater gravity than Earth
@thc: Unfortunately for you Vegeta isn't in that scene, also unfortunate for you punching a hole in King Kai's planet doesn't compare to shattering the moon as a side effect. Goku punched King Kai's planet directly and put a hole in it, Superman didn't directly attack the moon [which is 1/4 the size of the Earth] and shattered it
Not only that but I'm not even sure if the new DBZ movie is canon, not that it matters.
But hey, at least you tried ;]
True but it facilitates his claims for DBZ characters hitting that hard.
King Kai's planet has 10x the mass of Earth and Goku punched a hole directly through it with ease.
Focus and control are key aspects to martial artists no matter how powerful they are. This planet-shattering feat is groundbreaking for the DBZ series - despite the fact that anyone with a brain knows they have enormous destructive capabilities - because the series is effected by its huge fanbase in North and South America since the late 90's and 2000's. In truth, it is not a good feat at all; all it does is show Goku slightly losing control for an attack, which is quite uncharacteristic for him. It is explainable though, as he said he becomes more primal in SSJ3 form the first time he used it against Buu.
You won't find DBZ characters causing indiscriminate collateral damage outside of anime filler primarily because manga works differently than comic books and because the series is focused on martial arts; overcoming opponents are the great feats and there is an essence of control about all their fights.
Dragonball: GT is not canon; the new movie is the canon continuation of the real timeline based on the manga written by Akira Toriyama. Get with it buddy.
No, it really doesn't because the feat you showed doesn't come anywhere close to the feat listed for Superman. Even if you did the claim was that Vegeta hit that hard, you essentially showed a feat for Goku and are trying to apply it to a weaker character, it doesn't work like that I'm afraid.
Also, Mass =/= Density.
And if you're assuming that King Kai's planet has greater mass due to it having a higher gravity, you may not be aware that DBZ has a different take on gravity, since Namek was larger and more dense than Earth was but Bulma didn't get flattened when she stepped foot on the planet.
Another example is the Supreme Kai's planet. Old Kai stated that it was more durable than Earth was, yet it was considerably smaller, so with a smaller size and greater density it would of had to have greater gravity than Earth, and yet Satan and his dog were unaffected by it and were running around the planet freely.
It doesn't matter anyway, Cell blew up King Kai's original planet, so unless their is evidence of the new planet having the same level of gravity than as far as I'm concerned Goku kicked a hole through a small planet, nothing special.
Anyone with a brain would know that DBZ characters have enormous destructive capabilities when it comes to energy based attacks. Agreed
Anyone with a brain would also know that when it comes to physical stats, strenght, speed, durability etc that DBZ characters are sub par at the very best. They don't possess planetary striking power, they don't possess faster than light speed or nanosecond reaction time, and most don't possess planetary durability.
You're comment about DBZ being void of causing collateral damage is laughable, blowing up a planet for the lulz is the definition of collateral damage. Even Nappa nuked a city just for fun.
The series was based on martial arts during the early Dragon Ball days, but once they introduced alien warlords, androids, and monsters like Buu that all went out the window. Akira Toriyama is the Michael Bay of the manga world.
@thc: Unfortunately for you Vegeta isn't in that scene, also unfortunate for you kicking a hole in King Kai's planet doesn't compare to shattering the moon as a side effect. Goku kicked King Kai's planet directly and put a hole in it, Superman didn't directly attack the moon [which is 2159 miles compared to King Kai's planet which isn't even 1 ] and shattered it
Not only that but I'm not even sure if the new DBZ movie is canon, not that it matters.
True Superman is very fast but I think Vegeta may be faster at SS4 in short burst in a combat setting! It got to a point when he was battling Fat Buu,as Majin Vegeta he started to move so fast that he basically dissappeared and dents were forming in Buus body with no fist in sight! So Vegeta cango virtually invisable at SS2, and at SS4 leave multiple after images with ease. He called it childs play. I think if you use the Logic of Flash that highspeed makes punches much harder; i think that Vegeta's strike force even if he were a (2,000 ton brick)His punches would feel much harder than what most people would think. Also even using screw attacks numbers for Goku, Vegeta at SS4 would be in the trillion ton range,and his punches would feel much harder! Unlike Goku Vegeta is a tactition, and could methotically break Superman down with energy and physical attacks! Think about this; Frieza was half dead,and Survived a planet blowing up. He also took a very powerful spirit bomb to the face and survived. Now he showed Planetary Durability, but when Goku was punching him, he felt every blow. Same for Superman, who has survived Supernova's and yet he feels punches from Doomsday and Darkseid, are their punches more powerful than Supernovas? Same thing that applies to Superman Applies in DBZ, its the same Lodgic. Superman is much stronger and more durable, and faster in a strait line, but Vegeta can hit just as hard,has more energy attacks,better skilled,and is faster in short burst and in combat speed. I think because Vegeta would realize Supermans strengths much quicker than Goku he would go for the kill rather than enjoy the thrill of the battle. Also at SS4 his body will become immune if the same attack is used twice, so Heat vision if it doesn't kill him will not harm him a second time!
Unless you show me Vegeta hitting so hard that he shattered a moon as a side effect than you have no basis for your claim of Vegeta or any DBZ character hitting nearly as hard. Also unless you can show Vegeta having nanosecond reaction time, than he isn't anywhere near as fast either. Doomsday's punches aren't more powerful than a supernova, but neither is Android 18's kick that shattered Vegeta's arm. Cell doesn't possess 1% of Superman's strenght or striking power and he was able to casually backhand Vegeta and injured him, if that's his durability than a full force punch from Supes would cause Vegeta to explode.
The only advantage Vegeta may have is his destructive power, and even that's debateable since Superman's HV is hotter than the sun, and if he wanted to he could easily lobotomize Vegeta and leave him a drooling mess if he wished to.
edit: Why is anyone using SSJ4? Goku in this form was cut by flipping glass.
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