kilowog52

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kilowog52

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I greatly preferred Kreisberg and Sokolowski's run to Percy's and would have preferred if they had been allowed to stay on. Everything before Lemire was garbage, yes. Lemire's run was awesome, yes. To those we can all agree. But I have a pretty good idea where Kreisberg and Sokolowski were taking the book and it would have been awesome. I find Percy's run lackluster. Definitely better than the muck pre-Lemire, but not very compelling. Unfortunately Kreisberg and Sokolowski were booted off the book due to unwarranted fan outcry that the writers of the Arrow TV show were making the book a copy of the Arrow TV show. It was nothing of the sort. The events of Lemire's run had still occurred in its continuity. These were drastically different from the backstory of the TV show. And let's not forget that it was our beloved Lemire who was the one who introduced a comics version of John Diggle.

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kilowog52

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So you don't think any of the New 52 runs on Aquaman, Azzarrello's Wonder Woman, or Lemire's Green Arrow were good. None of those stories could have been told in pre-Flashpoint continuity. Still, I would have preferred to not have the reboot to begin with and miss out on these stories than have the reboot, in exchange for having these stories. Also, I'm sure Johns, Parker, Azzarrello, Lemire, and the rest would have been perfectly capable of telling equally compelling stories given the maintenance of previous continuity.

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kilowog52

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I really enjoyed Geoff Johns' The Flash: Rebirth. As good as some of the New 52 Flash stories are, they take big steaming crap on this important piece of Flash lore, and I will never be able to forgive whoever decided they were doing the New 52, for that and many other reasons.

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kilowog52

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The whole concept of the New 52's Earth Two was the brainchild of James Robinson. Robinson is one of those rare writers who can make you care about anything. He took a lesser-known villain and wrote a very compelling story about him in the 2011-2012 The Shade miniseries. I really didn't care much about the Fantastic Four, but picked up his recent run because his name was attached to it, and really enjoyed it. Also really digging his current Squadron Supreme book.

Anyway, I'm not sure what DC editorial did to alienate Robinson, but he suddenly left. This is when Tom Taylor took over. Tom Taylor was eventually replaced by Daniel H. Wilson, who was recently replaced by Dan Abnett. Anyway, under Taylor and under Wilson (Some of this actually started in issues with Robinson's name still attached, but it would make more sense that that was because of editorial's demands, which eventually led to his departure.) the Earth Two title became this constant battle for survival in the fight against Apokalips with characters getting killed off left an right. This direction may have had some exciting moments, but removed the original magic of Robinson's dream. Robinson had been crafting this long game of slow and steady world building that I'm sure would have had significant payoffs. And many, myself included were greatly enjoying the ride along the way.

However, whether DC editorial .(I'm not going to speculate on what force within the organization is to blame. Though people like to blame Didio or Harras, we, the fans, really don't know what goes on within the machine of the publisher. It could have been someone from their parent company, one of their own vice presidents, a group editor, anyone.) thought that the story was moving too slowly, or just wanted to shoehorn in the whole war with Darkseid, the Earth Two series really suffered quality-wise from this decision.

I also really enjoyed what the JSA was doing pre-Flashpoint and maintain that removing these characters from the mainstream DCU is another symptom of what was wrong with the September 2011 New 52 reboot. Now with Rebirth on the horizon, I am getting mixed signals. There is a new Earth Two series coming out. There are also rumors that new versions of Golden Age characters will appear on the main DC Earth explained as time-travelling forgotten heroes from the past, or something. I certainly hope this rumor holds no weight. However, with the announcement of a new Earth Two series, it seems unlikely that at least this aspect of the DCU will revert to normal pre-Flashpoint status.

Best case scenario, pre-Flashpoint continuity is completely restored and continued upon. (Though with how difficult this will be to achieve at this late a juncture, this seems very unlikely.) In the new Earth Two series, James Robinson returns and tells the Earth Two story the way he originally intended picking up after the Tower of Fate story arc. The truth is the versions of Earth Two, Earth Three, and others that came forth out of Infinite Crisis were not especially beloved versions by anyone and can easily be replaced.

However, if there is no reverting to pre-Flashpoint on any level, doesn't Rebirth seem pointless. Would they pull another reboot? My guess is they will bring back aspects of pre-Flashpoint continuity, keep some aspects of New 52 continuity, and make up other aspects as they go along. Hopefully the end result will be something we can live with.

And now a word about Flashpoint #5. When Barry Allen was trying to restore the DCU to how it should be after screwing up the timestream in the events of Flashpoint, Pandora appeared to him and told him that he needed to merge the DCU with Vertigo and Wildstorm in order for the universe to be at full strength to counter a coming threat. It was later revealed that Pandora was manipulating him in some twisted scheme to be released from the Trinity of Sin. (It has been established that the Trinity of Sin remain unchanged by and aware of such changes to reality, despite the fact that their origin ties into characters who could only exist post-Flashpoint.) The resetting of continuity and all such effects were results of this action. Putting that aside what, the Vertigo imprint publishes have always been either stories that already exist within the DCU (Swamp Thing, Deadman, Doom Patrol, Sandman, Hellblazer, House of Mystery, etc.) or creator-owned properties that each inhabit their own universe and aren't currently and most likely never will be incorporated into the DCU (Fables, American Vampire, Y: The Last Man, etc., etc.) Therefore nothing was really folded into the DCU on the Vertigo side. As for Wildstorm, hollow, almost unrecognizable versions of Wildstorm characters were added to the DCU. If they wanted to add these characters into their universe, they could have done it quietly with a merging of reality such as what they did with the Milestone characters several years before. Except, no that wouldn't have worked, for the very reason what they attempted did not work. Because after all, what is a character besides what that character's history makes them. What they did was take that all away, and try to make it work. They took away the essence of Stormwatch to tie it into the Demon Knights idea. Granted yes, the reason they did this is because the history of say, the Authority, is incompatible with that of the JLA. They could not have both happened. Therefore, the only way the integration of Wildstorm characters would have worked is if there were characters who survived that universe's destruction in Worldstorm and randomly ended up in the DCU and had to assimilate into a new Earth that had its own altruistic super-powered protectors. I'll end my off-topic ramble there.

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kilowog52

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Shoot! I just found out that most of my pulls for this week got delayed!

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kilowog52

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#7  Edited By kilowog52

Marvel has already announced about sixty new series coming out after Secret Wars, with more probably on the way. My concern is that when DC tried to publish fifty-two at once, they were obviously incapable of doing so, as the number waxed and waned constantly well below their previously established quota. If DC couldn't do that many series, I do not have much hope Marvel can maintain a larger number of series. I think it is most likely, they will see what sells well then cancel twenty plus series after not too many issues. But who knows, maybe they can. That would show DC who's top dog. (I don't mean this as saying Marvel is better. I am primarily a DC fan, but if Marvel can do something more than something DC couldn't do, that is sort of a display of competence. A feat.)

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#8  Edited By kilowog52

I really don't see any reason for any Bat-character to be using the Nightwing moniker when the names Nightwing and Flamebird stem from ancient heroes of the planet Krypton. Grayson became Nightwing when he was not on good terms with Bruce and needed something to call himself, so Superman let him use the name. Especially since Bette Kane is apparently no longer calling herself Flamebird, give these identities back to the Superman family. Let Chris Kent / Lor-Zod and Thara Ak-Var continue to use them.

The purpose of Dick becoming Nightwing, and of becoming an agent of Spyral, is to bring him out of Batman's shadow. However, since he was originally created as Batman's original sidekick, neither he nor any other Bat-character will ever escape Batman's shadow. The best way to bring him out of Bruce's shadow would be to make him Bruce's equal by having them both be Batman simultaneously. And then the international members of Batman Incorporated should all be called Batman, with identical costumes, instead of Nightrunner, Batwing, Mr. Nobody, etc. I always thought the Batman Incorporated thing would be a good route to give Bruce and Dick a chance to both be Batman so a Batman gives enough time to both protecting Gotham City and running the international scope of Batman Incorporated. A similar route worked for Wally West. Lots of fans prefer Wally as their Flash. I'm not saying Flash is as iconic as Batman, but I think Jay, Barry, and Wally, can and should all be the Flash at the same time, and likewise Bruce, Dick, and the international Batmen should all be called Batman. There would be special insider knowledge within the Batman Incorporated group that there was this secret 'original' Batman.

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kilowog52

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@drthanos91: @z3ro180: I too was thinking this might mean the return of the other Multiversal Avengers as well. Let's keep our fingers crossed!

@lemuel15: However, there are like twenty different versions of Hyperion. It could be a different one.

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kilowog52

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@ravenvice01: I'm rather certain that pre-Flashpoint, Morrow was definitely a villain. He created Reddy to infiltrate and destroy the JLA, but the android turned on him and sided with the League. Red Tornado also bonded with the spirit of the benevolent Tornado Champion from planet Rann, giving him a soul. Anyway, yes, in the New 52, Morrow works with Silas Stone at STAR Labs, but that is a stark departure from the pre-Flashpoint version.