Magic

well here goes

i am actually quite uneducated on who wields magic and who doesnt (so i will miss many!) plz let me know who i have missed

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Posted by Referee
Posted by kidman560

@referee said:

Nice so far, but there are so many more

Just for starters, But so far so good.

thanks bro this is the kind of input i need. any more you can recall ill be happy to put them.

Posted by Cable_Extreme

What about Thor? His hammer is magical.

Posted by kidman560

What about Thor? His hammer is magical.

and he does display magical abilities, so Beta Ray Bill and masterson Thor would also fit so would Valkyrie

Posted by Referee
Posted by kidman560

@referee: does Etrigan count though. see thats the question because if Etrigan counts shouldnt Ghost Rider? or Damian Hellstorm?

Posted by Referee

Good point, I'm not sure, I always assumed creatures from hell had what was called magic.

Posted by kidman560

@referee said:

Good point, I'm not sure, I always assumed creatures from hell had what was called magic.

see thats what makes magic so difficult because sure they have knowledge of magic (no doubt) but most of there powers are supernatural (sometimes that fits under magic, sometimes not!) a prime example is the penance stare, it doesnt appear to be magic but then again i have no idea what kind of attack it is!

Posted by Cable_Extreme

@cable_extreme said:

What about Thor? His hammer is magical.

and he does display magical abilities, so Beta Ray Bill and masterson Thor would also fit so would Valkyrie

What about Scarlet witch?

Edited by Referee

I don't know what to say. it is a tough question. You should post a thread about it on the General Discussion board. I'd be interested in seeing the response.

Posted by kidman560

@kidman560 said:

@cable_extreme said:

What about Thor? His hammer is magical.

and he does display magical abilities, so Beta Ray Bill and masterson Thor would also fit so would Valkyrie

What about Scarlet witch?

another one of those fine lines. she is actually a reality warper but she uses chaos magic. i suppose that one would fit though

Posted by darkseid1006

@cable_extreme: HoM had chaos magic and was near classic strange if not on par or even above him

And you might want to add some sky fathers

E.g.odin Zeus and many more

Posted by kidman560

@darkseid1006: actually Scarlet Witch herself wields chaos magic. but in HoM she used it to her full potential she was good (but strange put her down like a b!tch)

Posted by Referee
Posted by darkseid1006

@kidman560: true but IMO she is good enough to be on this

Posted by ShadowSwordmaster
Online
Posted by kidman560
Posted by darkseid1006

I would also say phantom stranger and Black Alice although the last one is just potentially due to her magic steeling

Posted by ShadowSwordmaster
Online
Posted by kidman560

I would also say phantom stranger and Black Alice although the last one is just potentially due to her magic steeling

no she fits. and so does Phantom Stranger and Klarion the witch boy

Posted by The_Red_Viper

Constantine being out of this list really degrades you as far as I'm concerned, my friend.

There's also Etrigan, Mister E, Tannarak and Sargon.

Posted by kidman560

Constantine being out of this list really degrades you as far as I'm concerned, my friend.

There's also Etrigan, Mister E, Tannarak and Sargon.

well is Etrigan a real magic person cuz if so wouldnt that make Ghost Rider, and Damian Hellstorm also belonging here. (and plz John Con gets owned by LOKI!)

Posted by The_Red_Viper

@the_red_viper said:

Constantine being out of this list really degrades you as far as I'm concerned, my friend.

There's also Etrigan, Mister E, Tannarak and Sargon.

well is Etrigan a real magic person cuz if so wouldnt that make Ghost Rider, and Damian Hellstorm also belonging here. (and plz John Con gets owned by LOKI!)

No he does not.

And Etrigan the Demon possesses Jason Blood who is a human.

Posted by kidman560

@the_red_viper: yes he does (i can prove it!)

Ghost Rider possesses Johnny Blaze, or Dan Kutch so we are still debating that whole Etrigan and GR thing. but i did forget Dormammu

Posted by The_Red_Viper

@the_red_viper: yes he does (i can prove it!)

Ghost Rider possesses Johnny Blaze, or Dan Kutch so we are still debating that whole Etrigan and GR thing. but i did forget Dormammu

I'm not a huge expert on Etrigan but I think he uses magic regardless. You should ask @joygirl.

Posted by The_Red_Viper

Oh, and you forgot Alan Scott. His ring is magic-powered.

Posted by kidman560
Posted by The_Red_Viper

@the_red_viper: john con was added did you see?

Keep thinking that Loki beats a guy who made an Archangel his b!tch and has a house that can warp reality and make Phantom Stranger look like an amateur.

Posted by Joygirl

@kidman560 said:

@the_red_viper: yes he does (i can prove it!)

Ghost Rider possesses Johnny Blaze, or Dan Kutch so we are still debating that whole Etrigan and GR thing. but i did forget Dormammu

I'm not a huge expert on Etrigan but I think he uses magic regardless. You should ask @joygirl.

Yup he uses magic. Loads of it.

Posted by kidman560

@kidman560 said:

@the_red_viper: john con was added did you see?

Keep thinking that Loki beats a guy who made an Archangel his b!tch and has a house that can warp reality and make Phantom Stranger look like an amateur.

A. i know for a Fact that John Con did not make an archangel his b!itch without some serious amping or PIS

B. Apply the same thing to Loki, who gave the Void a serious fight. (remember it took all of Marvel Earth to actually kill him!)

C. Has crippled the Mind of Mr. Fantastic

D. has Actually hurt Surtur

E. has Mind F___ed Odin. TWICE!

F. Loki Also is a Time Manipulator

Edited by The_Red_Viper

@the_red_viper said:

@kidman560 said:

@the_red_viper: john con was added did you see?

Keep thinking that Loki beats a guy who made an Archangel his b!tch and has a house that can warp reality and make Phantom Stranger look like an amateur.

A. i know for a Fact that John Con did not make an archangel his b!itch without some serious amping or PIS

B. Apply the same thing to Loki, who gave the Void a serious fight. (remember it took all of Marvel Earth to actually kill him!)

C. Has crippled the Mind of Mr. Fantastic

D. has Actually hurt Surtur

E. has Mind F___ed Odin. TWICE!

F. Loki Also is a Time Manipulator

None of that makes him better than Constantine.

With even a pinch of prep involved, Constantine can demolish a solid majority of comicdom characters.

Edited by kidman560

@kidman560 said:

@the_red_viper said:

@kidman560 said:

@the_red_viper: john con was added did you see?

Keep thinking that Loki beats a guy who made an Archangel his b!tch and has a house that can warp reality and make Phantom Stranger look like an amateur.

A. i know for a Fact that John Con did not make an archangel his b!itch without some serious amping or PIS

B. Apply the same thing to Loki, who gave the Void a serious fight. (remember it took all of Marvel Earth to actually kill him!)

C. Has crippled the Mind of Mr. Fantastic

D. has Actually hurt Surtur

E. has Mind F___ed Odin. TWICE!

F. Loki Also is a Time Manipulator

None of that makes him better than Constantine.

With even a pinch of prep involved, Constantine can demolish a solid majority of comicdom characters.

the Void Bro the Void? and Odin? i am glad you said that because with prep Loki gets to do this

should be fun to see the results on John Con

Posted by The_Red_Viper

@kidman560: You can't attack your opponent during prep, that's the whole point of prep...

An Archangel is > Odin and > The Void...

Posted by HeckTate

Madame Xanadu is a bigtime magic user, and the Endless (Destiny, Death, Dream, Destruction, Despair, Desire, Delirium) are magic entities. The forces of the Red, the Green, and the Rot in the DCU are a kind of magic too, like a combined life-force of all animals, plants, or rot respectively. The major characters who channel that are Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Abby Arcane, and Anton Arcane. There's also Constantine's enemies: Nick Necro, Felix Faust, Mister E, Sargon the Sorceror, his daughter Sargon the Sorceress, and Tala.

Posted by darkseid1006

@the_red_viper: I just think it would be impossible for him to find john when he's in his house because its outside of both time and space there's nothing loki has that can detect him

Posted by kidman560

@the_red_viper: I just think it would be impossible for him to find john when he's in his house because its outside of both time and space there's nothing loki has that can detect him

you do realize Loki has been thrown into the time stream and has started to master it. he absorbed dormmammu's powers! with prep in a few days. by hiding there all you do is give him more time to gather more powers and such

Posted by The_Red_Viper

@darkseid1006 said:

@the_red_viper: I just think it would be impossible for him to find john when he's in his house because its outside of both time and space there's nothing loki has that can detect him

you do realize Loki has been thrown into the time stream and has started to master it. he absorbed dormmammu's powers! with prep in a few days. by hiding there all you do is give him more time to gather more powers and such

You do realize that the House of Mystery exists outside of the time stream and outside of reality. John has dealt with bigger threats than Loki before.

Posted by kidman560

@kidman560 said:

@darkseid1006 said:

@the_red_viper: I just think it would be impossible for him to find john when he's in his house because its outside of both time and space there's nothing loki has that can detect him

you do realize Loki has been thrown into the time stream and has started to master it. he absorbed dormmammu's powers! with prep in a few days. by hiding there all you do is give him more time to gather more powers and such

You do realize that the House of Mystery exists outside of the time stream and outside of reality. John has dealt with bigger threats than Loki before.

hmm tbh he hasnt. but ill let this slide for now i point you to our debate that i will tag you in next post.

Posted by The_Red_Viper

@the_red_viper said:

@kidman560 said:

@darkseid1006 said:

@the_red_viper: I just think it would be impossible for him to find john when he's in his house because its outside of both time and space there's nothing loki has that can detect him

you do realize Loki has been thrown into the time stream and has started to master it. he absorbed dormmammu's powers! with prep in a few days. by hiding there all you do is give him more time to gather more powers and such

You do realize that the House of Mystery exists outside of the time stream and outside of reality. John has dealt with bigger threats than Loki before.

hmm tbh he hasnt. but ill let this slide for now i point you to our debate that i will tag you in next post.

...he has.

Edited by kidman560

@kidman560 said:

@the_red_viper said:

@kidman560 said:

@darkseid1006 said:

@the_red_viper: I just think it would be impossible for him to find john when he's in his house because its outside of both time and space there's nothing loki has that can detect him

you do realize Loki has been thrown into the time stream and has started to master it. he absorbed dormmammu's powers! with prep in a few days. by hiding there all you do is give him more time to gather more powers and such

You do realize that the House of Mystery exists outside of the time stream and outside of reality. John has dealt with bigger threats than Loki before.

hmm tbh he hasnt. but ill let this slide for now i point you to our debate that i will tag you in next post.

...he has.

thats ABC logic though hes never faced anyone like Loki, with Loki's power set and cunning plus his plot devices. Loki has trapped Doc Strange before. and has broke Doc Stranges magic spells twice. (and this is classic Strange!)

no to mention with his norn stones he was able to fight and harm void. something Conman couldnt do if he wanted too

Edited by The_Red_Viper

@kidman560: John killed the First of the Fallen (essentially the devil), made an Archangel his b!tch and made Phantom Stranger look like an amateur. PS is usually considered to be above Strange when it comes to magic, so yeah I'd say John can do whatever he wants to Loki. You need to realize that The House of Mystery is roughly around those OP items that are always banned from tourneys in terms of power. It's a reality-warping house that exists outside of time and space and John is its owner and can command it. Loki is very powerful and smart, that much is true, but he doesn't have anything to counter the HoM.

Posted by kidman560

@kidman560: John killed the First of the Fallen (essentially the devil), made an Archangel his b!tch and made Phantom Stranger look like an amateur. PS is usually considered to be above Strange when it comes to magic, so yeah I'd say John can do whatever he wants to Loki. You need to realize that The House of Mystery is roughly around those OP items that are always banned from tourneys in terms of power. It's a reality-warping house that exists outside of time and space and John is its owner and can command it. Loki is very powerful and smart, that much is true, but he doesn't have anything to counter the HoM.

woah hold on Classic Stranges Magic was getting in the way of LT and had Eternity worried. he was a Multiversal threat and you say Con is higher. if i didnt know better i would say you are trolling me

i am sorry but you will never convince me that John Con can beat Classic Strange it just isnt happening. John Con made an archangel his b!tch, Doc Strange made the LT his. even though both is EXTREME PIS. and in comic vine we get rid of that stuff!

Posted by The_Red_Viper

@kidman560: I didn't say John can beat Strange, I said it's usually agreed that Phantom Stranger is more powerful than Strange. Classic Strange in my opinion is the most powerful superhero that Marvel ever had and it was a very wise move to nerf him, he was rediculously broken. I can count on one hand the number of comics characters that can beat him (I'm not even sure John is one of them).

Loki is a different opera, though. He has no answer to reality warping.

By the way, thanks, I saw this scan once and I looked for it not too long ago but couldn't find it.

Posted by kidman560

@kidman560: I didn't say John can beat Strange, I said it's usually agreed that Phantom Stranger is more powerful than Strange. Classic Strange in my opinion is the most powerful superhero that Marvel ever had and it was a very wise move to nerf him, he was rediculously broken. I can count on one hand the number of comics characters that can beat him (I'm not even sure John is one of them).

Loki is a different opera, though. He has no answer to reality warping.

By the way, thanks, I saw this scan once and I looked for it not too long ago but couldn't find it.

Loki does Reality warp

he turns humans into nothings.

Posted by The_Red_Viper

@kidman560: Looks more like illusions to me. Only logical since Loki is the god of illusions.

Posted by The_Red_Viper

And you still havn't added Tannarak, Mister E and Sargon.

Edited by kidman560

@the_red_viper said:

@kidman560: Looks more like illusions to me. Only logical since Loki is the god of illusions.

did you read it. he said he would fix them later. cant fix an illusion that isnt broken!

Mister E from where there are like 3, one from DC, one from Marvel, one from somewhere else.

Posted by The_Red_Viper

@kidman560: That... doesn't mean it's not an illusion. He also didn't "turn them into nothing" he made them look like blank white sprites. And it was an illusion.

MIster E from DC, he's an enemy of John's. I never knew there were more Mister E's, actually.

Posted by kidman560

@kidman560: That... doesn't mean it's not an illusion. He also didn't "turn them into nothing" he made them look like blank white sprites. And it was an illusion.

MIster E from DC, he's an enemy of John's. I never knew there were more Mister E's, actually.

its funny you can tell me for sure what it was. it was not an illusion it was him turning people into blank nothings.

how do you explain him making a car into Ice cream. so he can matter manipulate and reality warp. dang

this is turning into a respect thread for Loki.

Loki can also turn things into animals.well jeesh either that is matter manipulation on a grander scale than SS or its Reality warping

Posted by The_Red_Viper

@kidman560: Even if it's reality warping... how can he warp something that exists outside of reality?

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