Thanos v. [Insert Superman-type Character]

Okey dokey, well this is a topic I have seen many times but rarely from people actually versed in all the characters. So I thought I'd give my ten cents.

This is a straight fight, no plot-induced stupidity on either character's part. If they have a power they use it and use it right. As a baseline, I am using an Annihilation Wave/Post-Infinity War Thanos who is killable. The Thanos Quest version was basically indestructable and immortal, and I'm not really sure of the limits of his abilities as he was pretty much only used against god-like beings with undefined power levels.

  1. v. Golden Age Superman
    Thanos would vaporise GA Superman with an energy blast. Thanos 100/100
  2. v. Silver Age Superman
    I don't know that Thanos could actually hurt Silver Age Superman. Though Thanos' intellect usually gives him an edge in the few people that out-class him he doesn't have jack on Silver Age Superman's intelligence. SA Superman 99/100
  3. v. Byrne-era Superman
    Byrne's Superman barely survived a nuclear explosion, and it wasn't even a large one. Thanos pops him like a grape. Thanos 95/100.
  4. v. late Post-Crisis Superman
    While Superman amped up his speed, strength and brains by leaps and bounds during this period he was no match for the Titan in either intellect or physical strength. His speed advantage is negated, because Thanos can clearly move at near light-speed if he sees fit and that was the limit of LPC Superman's "local" velocity (his TTK was warping space interstellar, useless for close-combat). Thanos 80/100.
  5. v. New 52 Superman
    It is hard to say the limits of this Superman's power, but based on feats (and who has been able to hurt him) I would give it to Thanos 90/100.
  6. v. Early Supreme (Rob Liefeld)
    Supreme is a hell of a fighter and dreadfully powerful in his initial incarnation, about as powerful as New Earth Superman plus a huge amount of adaptability/flux. I'd say Thanos 70/100, based on brains and raw power.
  7. v. Later Supreme (Rob Liefeld)
    This was a much-reduced character, and Thanos takes this 90/100.
  8. v. Supreme (Alan Moore)
    A less-arbitrary version of Silver Age Superman in many respects, I would give this to Supreme 90/100.
  9. v. Mr. Majestic (Wildstorm/Image)
    Majestic showed great control over his energy blasts, virtually unlimited physical strength and awesome intelligence and super-speed. I would say the Titan is noticeably smarter, but not enough to enable him to Deus Ex Machina defeat Majestic. 50/100 for both fighters, a solid match-up.
  10. v. Miracleman/Marvelman (Alan Moore)
    This incarnation of MM was seemingly indestructable, but as Kid Marvelman showed their powers suffer from a fatal weakness in that it is a body changing and force-field based ability. Thanos stomps, 100/100.
  11. v. Miracleman/Marvelman (Neil Gaiman)
    This version of the character had incredible abilities, such as bestowing powers and talents on others. An upgrade from Alan Moore's I still don't see the intelligence or experience with Thanos-level threats. Thanos 90/100.
  12. v. Gladiator (Marvel)
    Gladiator is a very powerful guy, but the source and limits of his powers have never visibly exceeded, really, Byrne-era Superman in most of his appearances. He lacks the brains to take on the Titan, in any case (not that he's dumb, but come on, Reed Richards is dumb to Thanos).
    Thanos, 100/100
  13. v. Count Nefaria Fully Upgraded (Marvel)
    Theoretically, if in-story claims can be trusted, Count Nefaria would become more and more powerful almost without limit over time. This means he could eventually beat Thanos with one punch. Of course, the same is true of the Hulk - and that ain't happenin'. Also, Count Nefaria was one dumb-ass super-scientist, so Thanos 99/100.
  14. v. Sentry
    I'll try to control my annoyance at what might be the worst Superman pastiche ever to objectively evaluate him. Not impressed. Very weird energy manipulation and shapechange abilities, but he didn't put up nearly the fight Thanos has (and, frankly, Thanos only loses to himself). He was also a crackhead lunatic who didn't fight effectively because he spent most of the time freaking out and talking to himself.
    Thanos 90/100.
  15. v. Captain Marvel (DC)
    This is basically equivalent to New Earth Superman. Thanos is a sorcerer of some skill himself, and is not vulnerable to magic. And Thanos is smarter than Solomon. So, Thanos 80/100
  16. v. Black Adam
    I think Teth-Adam is a better fighter and a much more experienced god-man than Captain Marvel. He is also more intelligent, and fights to kill most of the time.
    Thanos 70/100.
57 Comments
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Posted by agentxx

Looks good to me.

Posted by chaos-soul

mr. majestic would win 6/10 imo

Edited by whydama

aprroves

Posted by Khadija

@chaos-soul said:

mr. majestic would win 6/10 imo

I might agree with you if we had more Majestic feats, but as it is I don't think he has enough in-panel invulnerability to match the Titan (though that is offset by his freakin' awesome strength and speed, thus I made them even).

We probably won't see ANY of his feats in the future, because he seems to have been merged with Superman in the DC/Wildstorm blender (I can't believe no one has mentioned this - umm, he's got alien Super-armor and his arch-enemy is Helspont?)

Edited by whydama

@Khadija said:

btw does Silver age Superman have any energy manipulation feats? If not incap by a block of pure force trumps all Supermen

Posted by chaos-soul

@Khadija said:

@chaos-soul said:

mr. majestic would win 6/10 imo

I might agree with you if we had more Majestic feats, but as it is I don't think he has enough in-panel invulnerability to match the Titan (though that is offset by his freakin' awesome strength and speed, thus I made them even).

We probably won't see ANY of his feats in the future, because he seems to have been merged with Superman in the DC/Wildstorm blender (I can't believe no one has mentioned this - umm, he's got alien Super-armor and his arch-enemy is Helspont?)

but his brain is really big lol. and they merged? WHAT???? i missed a lot

Posted by Jayfournines

I disagree on early Plot Device Supreme, I think he would take 80/100

Posted by chaos-soul

@whydama said:

@Khadija said:

btw does Silver age Superman have any energy manipulation feats? If not incap by a block of pure force trumps all Supermen

he once absorbed some magic that was being used against him. does that count?

Edited by Khadija

@whydama said:

@Khadija said:

btw does Silver age Superman have any energy manipulation feats?

Silver Age Superman could not control energy like Vulcan or an Eternal can, but he was able to use combinations of his ray-vision and intellect to change energies and convert them into other types. He also had the infamous tendency to pull powers out of his cape. Which, by the way, was not 'inventing' powers, but simply a power he didn't have to use before (in canon). Also, he was pretty much totally indestrucable; even attacks that stunned him (like the Great Darkness Darkseid's bitchslap) didn't actually leave any visible wounds, bruising or bleeding. I just don't think Thanos has the sort of attacks to effect him in terms of sheer power; though a *sneak attack* using combined Red Sun/Green K radiation (if Thanos can produce that, probably yes the former maybe no the latter) could theoretically put SA Superman down. Thus the 1/100 I tossed to Purple Puss.

SA Superman's strength and speed were also infinite. He could fly through time, fly through dimensions, fly into Heaven and potentially fly so fast and so hard he destroyed the Universe. When he was a teenager he could drag galaxies full of planets with one hand at full speed. So, really, he could just crack Thanos open with a single punch.

The only dudes I see realistically putting SA Superman down are other Silver Age DC characters (Dr. Fate, Starbreaker, Darkseid) and even that is iffy. Or Jim Shooter's Solar: Man of the Atom, who was omnipotent.

Posted by whydama

@Khadija:

How is SA Superman stronger than the power gem? Thanos will still contain him in a block of pure force. SA Superman cant do anything if he doesnt have energy manipulation

Posted by stonerthps

Thanos would take Majestic. 10/10 Thanos is darkseid's level if you think majestic is taking darkseid 10/10 so be it.

Posted by agentxx

@whydama: which he can get, one of his powers is the power to get certain powers to free/help him from his predicament

Posted by Strider92

You forgot Plutonian! Who would most likely consistently beat Thanos.

Posted by whydama

@agentxx said:

@whydama: which he can get, one of his powers is the power to get certain powers to free/help him from his predicament

LOL. Every superhero seems to have that,. They are constrained to win.

Edited by Khadija

@stonerthps said:

Thanos would take Majestic. 10/10 Thanos is darkseid's level if you think majestic is taking darkseid 10/10 so be it.

Post-Crisis Darkseid (including New 52 Darkseid) was a Jobber far below Thanos. Superman beat him blind in no-time flat when he abducted Steel. Pre-Crisis Darkseid was vastly more powerful than Thanos (or Superman) and would annihilate Thanos or Majestic with a single Omega Beam

I think Majestic is much more powerful than PC-Darkseid and PC-Superman, so I give him 50/50 odds with the Mad Titan.

How is SA Superman stronger than the power gem? Thanos will still contain him in a block of pure force. SA Superman cant do anything if he doesnt have energy manipulation

Thanos doesn't ordinarily have the power gem, for starters. I'm not setting him up against Infinity Gauntlet Thanos, who is virtually all powerful (though SA Superman with the Sword of Superman curbstomps IG Thanos).

I've never seen anyone with *just* the power gem do anything comparable to SA Superboy/Superman in terms of strength feats. I mean, it's pretty much canon that SA Superman was infinitely strong, fast and durable *except* against equally freaky SA gods. I wouldn't be surprised if Kal-El could BREAK the power gem in his palm.

Posted by agentxx

@whydama: lol :P

so much PIS.

Posted by whydama

@Khadija:

Power gem also grants you infinite strength. What about Planet busting attacks by Champion? Champion one shots a planet with the power gem. Planet is smashed so completely that its centre of gravity disappears.

When Thor used it, Thanos still imprisoned him in a block of pure force. So, unless Superman comes up with something to counter that, he will get incap.

Edited by Khadija

@Strider92 said:

You forgot Plutonian! Who would most likely consistently beat Thanos.

I only went with characters I am very well versed with. However, given how often the Plutonian's enemies *almost* succeeded - and they were no Supermen - I just haven't seen the feats to match it.

One I did forget was Mark Milton Hyperion from Supreme Power. Thanos 100/100. The Supreme Power-verse was much lower-key than Marvel or DC, though Hyperion was pretty insanely powerful and got more powerful as time went on (as Supermen almost inevitably do).

Edited by whydama

@agentxx said:

@whydama: lol :P

so much PIS.

What??? And he just gave everyone invulnerability?

Posted by agentxx

@whydama: lol yep, just like tat XD

Edited by Khadija

@whydama said:

@Khadija:

Power gem also grants you infinite strength. What about Planet busting attacks by Champion? Champion one shots a planet with the power gem. Planet is smashed so completely that its centre of gravity disappears.

When Thor used it, Thanos still imprisoned him in a block of pure force. So, unless Superman comes up with something to counter that, he will get incap.

SA Superman can blow out suns. And restart them with his heat vision. And drag galaxies full of planets. I don't trust claims of 'infinite' anything unless it's got panels to show it. SA Superman has about 40 years of such panels.

Also, just as a matter of form criticism/genre SA Superman is god. Not like 'a god' in the Marvel sense, but pretty much the Big Boss Man of the DCU. The whole point of SA Superman was that he was unbeatable and infallible. And Super-hilarious.

Red Kryptonite also made SA Superman King of the Ants, which is useless against Thanos but Pym better watch his job.

Posted by whydama

@Khadija said:

@whydama said:

@Khadija:

Power gem also grants you infinite strength. What about Planet busting attacks by Champion? Champion one shots a planet with the power gem. Planet is smashed so completely that its centre of gravity disappears.

When Thor used it, Thanos still imprisoned him in a block of pure force. So, unless Superman comes up with something to counter that, he will get incap.

SA Superman can blow out suns. And restart them with his heat vision. And drag galaxies full of planets. I don't trust claims of 'infinite' anything unless it's got panels to show it. SA Superman has about 40 years of such panels.

So, .... Wont SA Superman then beat Infinity Gauntlet by that logic?

Posted by Strider92

@Khadija: He took multiple punches where the equivalent to a star-system and wasn't KO'd. I think thats a pretty good damn feat.

Edited by Khadija

@whydama said:

@Khadija said:

@whydama said:

@Khadija:

Power gem also grants you infinite strength. What about Planet busting attacks by Champion? Champion one shots a planet with the power gem. Planet is smashed so completely that its centre of gravity disappears.

When Thor used it, Thanos still imprisoned him in a block of pure force. So, unless Superman comes up with something to counter that, he will get incap.

SA Superman can blow out suns. And restart them with his heat vision. And drag galaxies full of planets. I don't trust claims of 'infinite' anything unless it's got panels to show it. SA Superman has about 40 years of such panels.

So, .... Wont SA Superman then beat Infinity Gauntlet by that logic?

Thanos and others with the IG have legitimately remade the Universe, killed half the people off, etc. So that does have a credible 'near omnipotence' stamp by actual feats. As opposed to the Cosmic Cube, which mostly seems to grant the ability of extreme stupidity.

@Khadija: He took multiple punches where the equivalent to a star-system and wasn't KO'd. I think thats a pretty good damn feat.

It is, but we've seen Thanos take blasts of reputedly similar power from guys like Silver Surfer and pummelings by Superman-powered guys. In terms of invulnerability Thanos is pretty ridiculous. Not that Majestic isn't, too.

Posted by stonerthps

SA Supes was also scared of lightning.

Posted by whydama

@Khadija said:

@whydama said:

@Khadija said:

@whydama said:

@Khadija:

Power gem also grants you infinite strength. What about Planet busting attacks by Champion? Champion one shots a planet with the power gem. Planet is smashed so completely that its centre of gravity disappears.

When Thor used it, Thanos still imprisoned him in a block of pure force. So, unless Superman comes up with something to counter that, he will get incap.

SA Superman can blow out suns. And restart them with his heat vision. And drag galaxies full of planets. I don't trust claims of 'infinite' anything unless it's got panels to show it. SA Superman has about 40 years of such panels.

So, .... Wont SA Superman then beat Infinity Gauntlet by that logic?

Thanos and others with the IG have legitimately remade the Universe, killed half the people off, etc. So that does have a credible 'near omnipotence' stamp by actual feats. As opposed to the Cosmic Cube, which mostly seems to grant the ability of extreme stupidity.

@Khadija: He took multiple punches where the equivalent to a star-system and wasn't KO'd. I think thats a pretty good damn feat.

It is, but we've seen Thanos take blasts of reputedly similar power from guys like Silver Surfer and pummelings by Superman-powered guys. In terms of invulnerability Thanos is pretty ridiculous. Not that Majestic isn't, too.

No amount of super strength would counter the block of pure force. Thor was bloodlusted with Warrior Madness and power gem. And that didnt help him. SA Superman is heading for the same fate.

Posted by Khadija

@stonerthps said:

SA Supes was also scared of lightning.

Electricity is one of the things all incarnations of Superman are most likely to be stunned by, but they are pretty much never hurt by it. It's a tactical consideration, not a mortal one; it wouldn't be irrelevant in a fight but, again, Thanos just doesn't have the physical chops to put the SA Man of Steel down even if he was like asleep.

Edited by Khadija

@whydama said:

@Khadija said:

@whydama said:

@Khadija said:

@whydama said:

@Khadija:

Power gem also grants you infinite strength. What about Planet busting attacks by Champion? Champion one shots a planet with the power gem. Planet is smashed so completely that its centre of gravity disappears.

When Thor used it, Thanos still imprisoned him in a block of pure force. So, unless Superman comes up with something to counter that, he will get incap.

SA Superman can blow out suns. And restart them with his heat vision. And drag galaxies full of planets. I don't trust claims of 'infinite' anything unless it's got panels to show it. SA Superman has about 40 years of such panels.

So, .... Wont SA Superman then beat Infinity Gauntlet by that logic?

Thanos and others with the IG have legitimately remade the Universe, killed half the people off, etc. So that does have a credible 'near omnipotence' stamp by actual feats. As opposed to the Cosmic Cube, which mostly seems to grant the ability of extreme stupidity.

@Khadija: He took multiple punches where the equivalent to a star-system and wasn't KO'd. I think thats a pretty good damn feat.

It is, but we've seen Thanos take blasts of reputedly similar power from guys like Silver Surfer and pummelings by Superman-powered guys. In terms of invulnerability Thanos is pretty ridiculous. Not that Majestic isn't, too.

No amount of super strength would counter the block of pure force. Thor was bloodlusted with Warrior Madness and power gem. And that didnt help him. SA Superman is heading for the same fate.

Nah. Superman would just counter the force field with some weird use of his heat vision. Also 'pure force' doesn't actually mean anything, so it's moot. Stopping a 90s/2000 Thor is jack compared to the stuff Starbreaker could do. And even he was a little afraid of Big Blue.

I'm not trying to discount Thor by any means. I'd put him on a par with New Earth Superman, a bit slower and more versatile with the energy manipulation.

Posted by whydama

@Khadija said:

@whydama said:

@Khadija said:

@whydama said:

@Khadija said:

@whydama said:

@Khadija:

Power gem also grants you infinite strength. What about Planet busting attacks by Champion? Champion one shots a planet with the power gem. Planet is smashed so completely that its centre of gravity disappears.

When Thor used it, Thanos still imprisoned him in a block of pure force. So, unless Superman comes up with something to counter that, he will get incap.

SA Superman can blow out suns. And restart them with his heat vision. And drag galaxies full of planets. I don't trust claims of 'infinite' anything unless it's got panels to show it. SA Superman has about 40 years of such panels.

So, .... Wont SA Superman then beat Infinity Gauntlet by that logic?

Thanos and others with the IG have legitimately remade the Universe, killed half the people off, etc. So that does have a credible 'near omnipotence' stamp by actual feats. As opposed to the Cosmic Cube, which mostly seems to grant the ability of extreme stupidity.

@Khadija: He took multiple punches where the equivalent to a star-system and wasn't KO'd. I think thats a pretty good damn feat.

It is, but we've seen Thanos take blasts of reputedly similar power from guys like Silver Surfer and pummelings by Superman-powered guys. In terms of invulnerability Thanos is pretty ridiculous. Not that Majestic isn't, too.

No amount of super strength would counter the block of pure force. Thor was bloodlusted with Warrior Madness and power gem. And that didnt help him. SA Superman is heading for the same fate.

Nah. Superman would just counter the force field with some weird use of his heat vision. Also 'pure force' doesn't actually mean anything, so it's moot. Stopping a 90s/2000 Thor is jack compared to the stuff Starbreaker could do. And even he was a little afraid of Big Blue.

I'm not trying to discount Thor by any means. I'd put him on a par with New Earth Superman, a bit slower and more versatile with the energy manipulation.

Most of SA Superman's feats make no sense either. That negates them too going by that logic. You can push a planet because that would break the planet apart.Why should "pure force" not be a factor?

Posted by Killemall

@Khadija said:

Post-Crisis Darkseid (including New 52 Darkseid) was a Jobber far below Thanos. Superman beat him blind in no-time flat when he abducted Steel. Pre-Crisis Darkseid was vastly more powerful than Thanos (or Superman) and would annihilate Thanos or Majestic with a single Omega Beam

I think Majestic is much more powerful than PC-Darkseid and PC-Superman, so I give him 50/50 odds with the Mad Titan.

Quite the contrary Pre-Crisis Darkseid has little feats to put him above post crisis darkseid specially if we look at him at the power level potrayed during Fourth World Omnibus days. People tend to use the feats from The Great Darkness Saga to show Pre-Crisis Darkseid is mega powerful, but that takes places 1000 years in the future and he was mega amped. He had the power of Darkness, stole powers from Modru and powers from Time Trapper and performed said feats. Granted his omega beams have never been withstood pre-crisis he hasnt done it against character vastly powerful either.

Also i consider myself very well versed with Thanos and i do not agree Thanso being "vastly more powerful" than Darkseid , like at all. If anything Darkseid is more powerful. He has soloed entire Justice League twice on his own accord (Justice League Annual 09, and Action Comics 650), he has also soloed Legion of Superheroes during Legion of Superheroes : Foundation, he's even soloed entire Greek Pantheon in his solo series.

So if you are going to look at all his feats, there is no way Thanos would be "vastly more powerful" than Darkseid, and thats coming from a hard-core Thanos fan, who has virtually read every Thanos issues.

I can understand people thinking Thanos could beat Darkseid but saying he's vastly superior is not doing justice to Darkseid.

Thanos doesn't ordinarily have the power gem, for starters. I'm not setting him up against Infinity Gauntlet Thanos, who is virtually all powerful (though SA Superman with the Sword of Superman curbstomps IG Thanos).

I've never seen anyone with *just* the power gem do anything comparable to SA Superboy/Superman in terms of strength feats. I mean, it's pretty much canon that SA Superman was infinitely strong, fast and durable *except* against equally freaky SA gods. I wouldn't be surprised if Kal-El could BREAK the power gem in his palm.

I think he was pointing to the fact that Thanos has fought and done well against Power Gem Thor taken over by Madness during Thor: Blood and Thunder Arc but thats a different matter, i dont think Thanos can normally beat SA Superman, but since Thanos's powers are magical in nature, it has been stated on panel after he resurrection before IG saga that death mystically increased his powers, and thats the reason why he was killing Cancerverse people who normally cant die with his blast. So Thanos can hurt SA but probably would lose every time.

Power gem users have some nice feats thought, after getting infinity gauntlet during IG saga , Adam Warlock demonstrates Dr. Strange the power of the gems one by one. He was juggling planets and re-arranging starsystems so i would assume thats comparable to Sa Superman, although he still has better feats.

Edited by Khadija

Most of SA Superman's feats make no sense either. That negates them too going by that logic. You can push a planet because that would break the planet apart.Why should "pure force" not be a factor?

I mean the same thing I meant about the Power Gem. A block of Pure Force can stop a beefed up recent Thor. But saying something is invulnerable or infinitely powerful doesn't prove it is. Most comic book claims are lies that are never lived up to (Sentry is a great example). SA Superman was the exception; in fact he vastly exceeded every benchmark they put on him year after year. If this block of 'Pure Force' had constrained Hyperstorm we'd be having a different conversation, but as it is the only feat we have is a Norse God of great but really sub-SA Silver Age Thor power levels - and that's definitely Sub-SA Superman power levels.

Also, many of Thanos' abilities are greatly variable because he's a cyberneticist and technophile. He can't always do the same things. The same isn't true of SA Superman, I mean he had all kinds of super-technology but mostly just 'invented' powers. I am not convinced he could actually do this ordinarily, since he only ever did it once and it seems pretty damn useful.

These are characters from two different genres, in many senses. It's like pitting Galactus against Thomas Aquinas' God. The latter wins, by definition.

Posted by Killemall

@Khadija said:

Most of SA Superman's feats make no sense either. That negates them too going by that logic. You can push a planet because that would break the planet apart.Why should "pure force" not be a factor?

I mean the same thing I meant about the Power Gem. A block of Pure Force can stop a beefed up recent Thor. But saying something is invulnerable or infinitely powerful doesn't prove it is. Most comic book claims are lies that are never lived up to (Sentry is a great example). SA Superman was the exception; in fact he vastly exceeded every benchmark they put on him year after year. If this block of 'Pure Force' had constrained Hyperstorm we'd be having a different conversation, but as it is the only feat we have is a Norse God of great but really sub-SA Silver Age Thor power levels - and that's definitely Sub-Superman power levels.

Well actually we have proof that the block cant contain powerful character, Odin effortlessly broke through it in the same arc.

Posted by Khadija

People tend to use the feats from The Great Darkness Saga to show Pre-Crisis Darkseid is mega powerful, but that takes places 1000 years in the future and he was mega amped.

You are right on this. But, even supposing Post-Crisis Darkseid was more powerful than his 4th World version, Thanos still has much more impressive showings against Superman-level threats. So, not disagreeing, just saying it doesn't make a difference for my purposes.

Darkseid doesn't use all his supposed powers very often, and Thanos does. Thanos has more feats. Darkseid beating the Justice League isn't much more than Darkseid beating Superman IMO.

Edited by whydama

@Killemall said:

@Khadija said:

Most of SA Superman's feats make no sense either. That negates them too going by that logic. You can push a planet because that would break the planet apart.Why should "pure force" not be a factor?

I mean the same thing I meant about the Power Gem. A block of Pure Force can stop a beefed up recent Thor. But saying something is invulnerable or infinitely powerful doesn't prove it is. Most comic book claims are lies that are never lived up to (Sentry is a great example). SA Superman was the exception; in fact he vastly exceeded every benchmark they put on him year after year. If this block of 'Pure Force' had constrained Hyperstorm we'd be having a different conversation, but as it is the only feat we have is a Norse God of great but really sub-SA Silver Age Thor power levels - and that's definitely Sub-Superman power levels.

Well actually we have proof that the block cant contain powerful character, Odin effortlessly broke through it in the same arc.

This shows that energy manipulation is required to by-pass the block. Thor with infinite strength cant do it, while Odin can. The difference between Odin and Thor is that Odin has energy/magic manipulation.

Hence, any character without energy manipulation gets incap by this tactic

Posted by Killemall

@Khadija said:

You are right on this. But, even supposing Post-Crisis Darkseid was more powerful than his 4th World version, Thanos still has much more impressive showings against Superman-level threats. So, not disagreeing, just saying it doesn't make a difference for my purposes.

Actually you mis-understood, i meant Post Crisis Darkseid has better feats than Pre-crisis Darkseid if you choose not to include The Great Darkness Saga, contrary to what you stated earlier.

Darkseid doesn't use all his supposed powers very often, and Thanos does. Thanos has more feats. Darkseid beating the Justice League isn't much more than Darkseid beating Superman IMO.

I do not think thanos has as much feats as Darkseid let alone more feats.

Can you show me a counter feat from Thanos that is more impressive than soloing the Justice League twice?

I dont understand, why isnt beating the entire Justice Legion better than fighting Superman? I am sorry could you clarify that?

Edited by whydama

@Khadija said:

Most of SA Superman's feats make no sense either. That negates them too going by that logic. You can push a planet because that would break the planet apart.Why should "pure force" not be a factor?

I mean the same thing I meant about the Power Gem. A block of Pure Force can stop a beefed up recent Thor. But saying something is invulnerable or infinitely powerful doesn't prove it is. Most comic book claims are lies that are never lived up to (Sentry is a great example). SA Superman was the exception; in fact he vastly exceeded every benchmark they put on him year after year. If this block of 'Pure Force' had constrained Hyperstorm we'd be having a different conversation, but as it is the only feat we have is a Norse God of great but really sub-SA Silver Age Thor power levels - and that's definitely Sub-SA Superman power levels.

Also, many of Thanos' abilities are greatly variable because he's a cyberneticist and technophile. He can't always do the same things. The same isn't true of SA Superman, I mean he had all kinds of super-technology but mostly just 'invented' powers. I am not convinced he could actually do this ordinarily, since he only ever did it once and it seems pretty damn useful.

These are characters from two different genres, in many senses. It's like pitting Galactus against Thomas Aquinas' God. The latter wins, by definition.

Hyperstorm has energy manipulation. The block will not work. If it does, its PIS.

Posted by Killemall

@whydama said:

This shows that energy manipulation is required to by-pass the block. Thor with infinite strength cant do it, while Odin can. The difference between Odin and Thor is that Odin has energy/magic manipulation.

Hence, any character without energy manipulation gets incap by this tactic

Anything to suggest Thor had infinite strength. Power gem gives you infinity strength if you tap into the entire powers , during Blood and Thunder: Thor was suffering from madness i dont see how he would be tapping into its full powers. Not to mention other character that have wielded the gem, namely Champion and Drax the Destroyer where never shown to have infinite strength but rather the potential to have infinite strength should they somehow tap into the power. With infinite strength Champion would have easily broken through Thanos's shield with one hit, which did not happen. Thor should have knocked out thanos with the first hit which also did not happen. Also it was mentioned that the shield do actually weaken , and cannot hold stuffs permanently.

Posted by whydama

@Killemall said:

@whydama said:

This shows that energy manipulation is required to by-pass the block. Thor with infinite strength cant do it, while Odin can. The difference between Odin and Thor is that Odin has energy/magic manipulation.

Hence, any character without energy manipulation gets incap by this tactic

Anything to suggest Thor had infinite strength. Power gem gives you infinity strength if you tap into the entire powers , during Blood and Thunder: Thor was suffering from madness i dont see how he would be tapping into its full powers. Not to mention other character that have wielded the gem, namely Champion and Drax the Destroyer where never shown to have infinite strength but rather the potential to have infinite strength should they somehow tap into the power. With infinite strength Champion would have easily broken through Thanos's shield with one hit, which did not happen. Thor should have knocked out thanos with the first hit which also did not happen. Also it was mentioned that the shield do actually weaken , and cannot hold stuffs permanently.

If you tap into the power gem, you get infinite strength AND energy manipulation, with that anyone could one shot almost the entire MU. Thor did not tap into full potential. That is the reason that Thanos can contain him. SA Superman will still not cope any better than Thor with power gem.

Posted by Killemall

@whydama said:

If you tap into the power gem, you get infinite strength AND energy manipulation, with that anyone could one shot almost the entire MU. Thor did not tap into full potential. That is the reason that Thanos can contain him. SA Superman will still not cope any better than Thor with power gem.

Ok i think i lost you there, if you agree with me that Thor did not tap into full potential of the power gem, how then can you make a comparision between what happened to Thor and what would happen to SA Superman, given the fact that SA Superman has far better feats like juggling planets ??

Posted by Khadija

Actually you mis-understood, i meant Post Crisis Darkseid has better feats than Pre-crisis Darkseid if you choose not to include The Great Darkness Saga, contrary to what you stated earlier.

No, I understood that, sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't disagree with you. You are 100% correct that 4th World Darkseid is not TGD Darkseid in terms of feats.

I dont understand, why isnt beating the entire Justice Legion better than fighting Superman? I am sorry could you clarify that?

An invulnerability/energy issue. I'm not dismissing the rest of the Justice League, some of whom are Supermanish in their own fields, but because Darkseid is SO strong and tough if Superman can't take him out the rest of the JL doesn't stand a chance (Doctor Fate possibly excepted, but he's more JS).

I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to say Darkseid is a sissy or something. I think he is credibly stronger than Superman and more resistant to energy and toxic attacks. But he has been physically defeated by Superman, who I consider to be nowhere near Purple Puss.

Posted by XImpossibruX

Disagree on the last one, Thanos would beat Black adam 90/10

Posted by jeanroygrant

@Strider92 said:

You forgot Plutonian! Who would most likely consistently beat Thanos.

Posted by Khadija

@XImpossibruX said:

Disagree on the last one, Thanos would beat Black adam 90/10

I can see that, but I always got the impression that Black Adam was physically more powerful than Superman, MM and Captain Marvel; and he's a fierce fighter and expert with the use of his abilities on top of that; I give him better odds.

Posted by whydama

@Killemall said:

@whydama said:

If you tap into the power gem, you get infinite strength AND energy manipulation, with that anyone could one shot almost the entire MU. Thor did not tap into full potential. That is the reason that Thanos can contain him. SA Superman will still not cope any better than Thor with power gem.

Ok i think i lost you there, if you agree with me that Thor did not tap into full potential of the power gem, how then can you make a comparision between what happened to Thor and what would happen to SA Superman, given the fact that SA Superman has far better feats like juggling planets ??

Thor tapped into the infinity gem for just strenght. Strength is not enough to escape the block. As long as Thor tried to escape using strength, he would fail. As long as Superman uses strenght to escape the block, he too will fail. SA Superman has better feats but none of those feats are of energy manipulation, which is required to break the block. So, all of SA Superman feats are irrelevant.

As soon as Thor taps into energy manipulation part of the gem, then he would have broken through the block.

Posted by Killemall

@whydama said:

Thor tapped into the infinity gem for just strenght.

How much strength was he tapping into? He certainly wasnt tapping into infinite strength because that would mean he would have killed Thanos with the first blow. Thats exactly what infinite strength would do.

Strength is not enough to escape the block.

Based on what exactly, Thor couldnt escape it while Thanos himself said he will soon be able to escape. Odin easily broke through it and apart from his eyes glowing which could be him calling upon his strength he broke it with his fist. Now given that its the only 2 times the said block has been used, and neither has it been stated that strength is not enough, nor has that been proved.

As long as Thor tried to escape using strength, he would fail.

thats because Thor's strength was not enough. Just because you have the gem doesnt mean you have infinite strength. You only have the potential for infinite strength, and a lot of other powers provided you tap fully into the gem. Which Thor didnt.

As long as Superman uses strenght to escape the block, he too will fail.

Might i ask why?

SA Superman has better feats but none of those feats are of energy manipulation, which is required to break the block. So, all of SA Superman feats are irrelevant.

Based on ?

that was never stated anywhere in the comics , nor was it proved. If anything we have Odin's action that directly contradict it. Also if it was impossible to break wouldnt Thanos has stated such, he isnt one of the modest characters in comics.

As soon as Thor taps into energy manipulation part of the gem, then he would have broken through the block.

Again, apart from your speculation, anything to substantiate this? Because if Thor taps into complete Gem he should have enough strength to break you. You are going off on one showing, and stretching it way too far.

Posted by whydama

@Killemall said:

@whydama said:

Thor tapped into the infinity gem for just strenght.

How much strength was he tapping into? He certainly wasnt tapping into infinite strength because that would mean he would have killed Thanos with the first blow. Thats exactly what infinite strength would do.

Strength is not enough to escape the block.

Based on what exactly, Thor couldnt escape it while Thanos himself said he will soon be able to escape. Odin easily broke through it and apart from his eyes glowing which could be him calling upon his strength he broke it with his fist. Now given that its the only 2 times the said block has been used, and neither has it been stated that strength is not enough, nor has that been proved.

As long as Thor tried to escape using strength, he would fail.

thats because Thor's strength was not enough. Just because you have the gem doesnt mean you have infinite strength. You only have the potential for infinite strength, and a lot of other powers provided you tap fully into the gem. Which Thor didnt.

As long as Superman uses strenght to escape the block, he too will fail.

Might i ask why?

SA Superman has better feats but none of those feats are of energy manipulation, which is required to break the block. So, all of SA Superman feats are irrelevant.

Based on ?

that was never stated anywhere in the comics , nor was it proved. If anything we have Odin's action that directly contradict it. Also if it was impossible to break wouldnt Thanos has stated such, he isnt one of the modest characters in comics.

As soon as Thor taps into energy manipulation part of the gem, then he would have broken through the block.

Again, apart from your speculation, anything to substantiate this? Because if Thor taps into complete Gem he should have enough strength to break you. You are going off on one showing, and stretching it way too far.

Based on Odin escaping the block and not Thor. Lets assume, energy manipulation is not required to escape the block. If so, that would mean that Odin beats power gem empowered Thor with Warrior Madness in a physical battle. I dont see that happening. Hence, the assumption was wrong and energy manipulation is required.

Posted by Killemall

@Khadija: Would you be kind enough to quote me so i can see your reply properly?

An invulnerability/energy issue. I'm not dismissing the rest of the Justice League, some of whom are Supermanish in their own fields, but because Darkseid is SO strong and tough if Superman can't take him out the rest of the JL doesn't stand a chance (Doctor Fate possibly excepted, but he's more JS).

Firstly Dr. Fate isnt a part of Justice League, he's the part of the Justice Society of America , 2 different team. So being 1 person, or being 5 people together is similar feats? Strange.

I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to say Darkseid is a sissy or something. I think he is credibly stronger than Superman and more resistant to energy and toxic attacks. But he has been physically defeated by Superman, who I consider to be nowhere near Purple Puss.

You cannot look at the character's lowest feat to say oh he's lost to Superman. Also Darkseid has only been beaten by Superman twice, once during Superman/ Batman 13 where he was near the sun, and the other during Apokolips Now. If you choose to look at two of his horrible showings against other times he has fought and easily beaten Superman which includes: Superman Confidential 8-10, Superman Man of Steel 116, Adventures of Superman 495, Death of New Gods 03, Action Comics 650, Justice League Annual 09, Countdown to Final Crisis 03.

Also might i add, you will be absolutely hard pressed to show Superman is "nowhere near" as strong as Thanos physically. Apart from his fight with classic Drax where he destroyed a planet we dont have much to go one. Superman certainly has a lot more strength feats than Thanos does.

Also by the same logic i could easily say Thanos has fought Magus twice and struggled both time, has never beaten him in a outright fight, and i consider MAgus no where as powerful as Darkseid.

Drawing a comparison of a character based on few of their lowest showings doesnt do justice to a character.

Posted by OmegaDynasty

SA Superman wins with a super loogie. 
 

Posted by Killemall

@whydama said:

Based on Odin escaping the block and not Thor.

And is there any evidence to show Odin was using energy manipulation?

Isnt its quite obvious that Odin is much more stronger than Thor?

Lets assume, energy manipulation is not required to escape the block. If so, that would mean that Odin beats power gem empowered Thor with Warrior Madness in a physical battle.

1.Thor was under madness and not warrior madness. A common misconception , because the world warrior madness was thrown around during the issue, but Odin confirms he wasnt in warrior madness. However, he certainly was somehow amped.

2. No i dont think Odin can physically beat Thor with power gem. Let me explain.

What power gem does is gives you potential for unlimited strength provided you tap completely into it, which Thor obviously wasnt. As such Thor has done aboslutely nothing during Blood and Thunder that say Odin couldnt easily match. I think Thor at that point was physically weaker than Odin, because an angry Odin going all out of Thanos would have made short work of him.

Why then do i think Thor would win against Odin? What power gem also does is give you near absolutely invulnerability. I dont see how Odin could do any lasting damage to Thor as long as he has the power gem, and while his strength during blood and thunder looked no where close to Odin, its obvious eventually in a fight he will keep getting stronger and stronger, much like Champion vs Thanos. After a point, however long it may take, Thor would surpass Odin in terms of physical strength.

Hence, the assumption was wrong and energy manipulation is required.

I dont see anything that either says the assumption was wrong, nor do i see anything that says energy manipulation was required.

Posted by DocFatalis

@Khadija:Thanks. I agree with, let's say 95% of what is written here.

if only this blog could sign the end of all the battles of that kind.

Thanos is definitely not a common villain or even someone on the superman level. He is a threat that can not be dealt with by a single hero, not even a Sup's level hero.

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