kenshiroo

Stop running every second word through a thesaurus thanks, the internet intellectual role doesn't suit you and very little of what you're saying actually makes sense. You don't know what an ad hominem is, you don't know what a strawman is, and you don't know what a cherry picking fallacy is.

This literally doesn't make sense. Stop using thesauruses to try and sound smart.

More bunch of ad hominem fallacies.

You're actually agreeing with me at this point. The dimension was being ripped apart as a consequence of the featless Cyttorak aspect dying. That's all there is to it, it is not a good strength feat. I'm not "cherry picking" anything I'm literally showing you exactly what is said in the scans.

Nope, it's the other way, even for this you lie shamelessly. Now you say "yes, he ripped apart" when you previously denied it by giving hits on your chest, good Kid. And yes you use cherry picking and straw man fallacies to that.

Juggernaut was able to shatter a featless corrupted aspect of Cyttorak with one punch.

To say “featless corrupted aspect” is an absolutely false claim of yours.

The manifestation of a part of Cyttorak’s destructive power doesn’t work like a physical being who destroys everything with hands and feet because he is an abstract mystical entity, you should know this.

Therefore, his power works only through the use of his mystical energies, whether if it wielded by his avatar, the Juggernaut, by being invoked by powerful magic users such as: Zom, Dormammu, Umar, Baron Mordo, etc., by being plundered or by being released through a magical portals which implies the corruption or destruction of other realities. For example:

Like a mystical hurricane of destruction he obliterated bunch of villages (off-panel).

Portions of his energies were stolen by D’Spayre to control the very fabric of space-time of Earth-616 Universe.

A certain amount of his destructive energies released from Juggernaut's body ripped a hole apart in the space-time fabric of Trion's universe, which was leading to an utter expansive void.

Cyttorak destructive aspect nullified 1/5 of Phoenix power without any effort with a mere thought (within CC).

It. Has. No. Feats.This isn't a complicated thing, it's a single corrupted aspect that destroyed some villages off panel, then depowered Juggernaut tanked multiple hits from it and as soon as he was infused with the binding energies of the Ruby he one shot the aspect.

False, it was debunked above, and you contradict yourself here, just by destroy villages counts as a feat (not many extra dimensional beings and much less Eternals aliens like Thanos have managed to successfully perform something similar on Earth [without getting external sources of unlimited power such as: CsC, IG, HOTU, God Quarry, etc]).

Except you can't just cross Cain's feats over to the corrupted aspect.

What Juggernaut does counts as a feat for Cyttorak’s destructive aspect.

They are very clearly not the same level of power, given human Cain tanked his punches and then literally shattered him with one punch after getting amped back up.

Wrong, the Juggernaut’s power stems from Cyttorak, they aren’t two different powers as you wrongly say.

He wasn't hurt, you're straight up lying at this point. He gets up in one second completely fine. Crying about "cherry picking" isn't going to do anything when I'm literally just showing exactly what happens in the scans.

False, again, if a blow to your nose causes you pain, it means that it hurt you. The expression of pain on Stranger’s face revels he was hurt by the Juggernaut’s punch on his nose (independently he got up unharmed seconds later). The problem is that you always omitts that Juggernaut hurt him and knocked him down briefly and you try to trivialize it as if it were a feat that everyone can do, so you are lowballing the feat. There is your cherry picking fallacy.

Telling you to read scans is not ad hominem.

Accusing me of lack of compression, yes it is an ad hominem fallacy of yours.

Dude, no. Is it really that difficult to read the scans? He spent over a month traveling underground and caused a long fracture over time. He didn't just stomp his foot once and crack the entire tectonic plates. There is no argument to be had here.

False, you are the one who should read the panel again, Juggernaut caused "jagged fractures within the tectonic plates… dozens of fractures". It was not a long fracture as wrongly you say, they were multiple fractures.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume English isn't your first language.

More ad hominem fallacies

It's hyperbole and doesn't relate to the damage being caused, again there is no argument to be had here.

Sorry, it was a fight of titanic proportions (that's what the writer exclamation refers to) and it is related to the damage caused.

Again... do you not know what a freaking island is? He punched a damn hole in a wall, you visibly see rocks flying out, so his shockwave powdered what, a couple of pebbles? That is not a good feat.

Wrong, again, many of those island rock granite (which composed that damn wall) were powdered by the shockwaves of his tremendous blow. It was a good feat. That your pretends lowballing it doesn't diminish the feat at all.

He was not forcedto do anything. He was not beaten after 3 punches. After the three punches he knew he needed to change up his strategy because he couldn't face Juggernaut head on, so he reverted to a child form to trick him. Again with the "cherry picking fallacy" bullshit, I'm literally explaining exactly what happened on panel.

Again, Skaar was forced to change his strategy, trick o whatever you call it because he was physically beaten, overpowered by Juggernaut in three punches, ie, he couldn't stop him. Until now, you haven’t refuted anything I said. You just try to make it look less humiliated than he was with your cherry picking fallacy.

No. Alternate realities are not canon to Earth-616, especially when it's not even an alternate timeline but completely different backstories.

False, it is canon because is an alternate reality to Earth-616 and is not completely different backstories, I've explained before.

No, they are demonstrably different in terms of power. Again, comparing Colossonaut's multiple page, difficult fight with Thing against Cain 3 shotting Thing is evidence enough of that fact. No, like I said before it is blatantly obvious that they have different levels of power, there wasn't any special context to it - Cain was able to drop Thing with 3 punches, Colossonaut had to fight him for multiple pages while Thing was struggling with lack of oxygen and barely won.

Colosusnaut's fight with Thing was casual and he was merciful, he didn’t want to hurt him badly, much less kill him. Otherwise, Cain's fight against the Thing was with all the intention of defeating him to get at Beyonder and try to kill him, as a part of the task assigned to him by Mephisto.

They are two different situations and motivations as I said before. Also the Juggernaut’s power is one and the same, regardless of whom is it host or wielder. Stop still keep appealing ad consequentiam fallacy.

Stop using terms that you don't know the meaning of.

More ad hominem fallacy.

A high tier struggling to put down someone they should one shot is not a good feat.

A high tier struggling, are you kidding?? Nope, again, despite the unexplained Venom's amped durability, Juggernaut mocked and toyed him all the time until he finished him up in one shot. It was a good feat.

I don't think you understand how fights work. Thanos punched Surfer a few times, Surfer was KOd. Juggernaut has never replicated a feat on that level. End of discussion.

Thanos used concussive cosmic blasts to cowardly punch SS and KO's him, totally different from doing it without using these energies, they are two different things. This fight is not based entirely on physical strength and it's totally derisory to what Juggernaut has done. Sorry.

Lmfao. Juggernaut's punches didn't even cause earthquakes over the planet, they were localised.

False, because his punches were not directly landed against the ground but on the Bannertech shield. Even so, Juggernaut caused large cracks opening up the entire ground of the battlefield, ie, earthquakes of 8 or more degree magnitude on the Richter scale over the planet. Stop lowballing the feat.

So it is perfectly plausible to suppose if he hit the ground directly with such force or lot more, he could cause more powerful earthquakes over the planet that even would put it at risk of a total collapse. Juggernaut has the potential to do that due the feat above and because he has no limits in his striking power. Therefore, unlike Juggernaut, Thanos has not done this on any planet and much less with characteristics similar to the Earth.

Durability doesn't contribute to being knocked down, especially against someone who's literal power is to be unstoppable in motion.

Out of context.

Again, your best feat is Juggernaut 3 shotting Thing

I debunked this before.

(Someone Thanos has one shot in the past, mind you).

Thanos used his concussive energy blast to knock out Thing in one shot.

As proof of this, we can be seen how Ben's body gives off smoke as result of Thanos's concussive energy blast. It was not a physical punch with a fist and much less a physical strength feat.

Why do you keep using terms you don't know the meaning of?

More ad hominem fallacies.

Thanos stomping Surfer with 6 punches isrelevant to his striking power, what the actual shit are you talking about?

It was energy manipulation or energy projection feat, not a strength feat. Also is insignificant feat compared to what Juggernaut has done.

No. I'll just chalk this one up to you not understanding English very well, because I don't have the patience to explain it to you.

More ad hominem fallacies.

Can you stop lying please?

He physically ripped the core of a star apart.

Wrong, I’am not lying, the problem is you don’t even know what a star is. Again, ripped out a core of little star through an energy blast is not a strength feat. The core of star is pure hot gases in fission and combustion, has no solid mass. Sorry, but this doesn’t count as a physical strength feat but as an energy manipulation feat.

Not mention Thanos needs the power of the Soul Gem and build a Stellar Projector to bend its power at his will in order of being able to destroy the Sun.

Thanos can’t destroy stars of solar systems (like the Sun) by his own means (cosmic energies), much less the classic Drax (who just ripped out the core of a little star via energy manipulation).

Until now, all posted here about Thanos are energy manipulation feats. This doesn’t count as a physical strength feat.

Then you're acutally blind.

No way.

I'm not going to keep repeating this. Thanos punch Surfer. Surfer go down. Thanos punches = strong. Understand?

Wrong, it was an energy projection feat, not a strength feat.

I literally just pointed out what the best strength feat you showed is. That is not what a strawman is. Google is your friend.

Again, they are not a strength feat but are energy manipulation or energy projections feats.

Again, I don't give a single shit whether you think I'm being respectful or not. I'm literally just explaining the context for the scans exactly as they are, if that hurts your feelings then too bad. Spamming "THIS IS A FALLACY! THIS IS A FALLACY! THIS IS A FALLACY!" on everything I say isn't an argument (ironically that's called the Fallacy fallacy, although that's not completely accurate because I didn't use any fallacies to begin with). Take some time, Google some terms before posting them, stop using a thesaurus on every second word to try and sound intelligent, and maybe you might have the basis for an actual argument. For now, don't bother replying if you're just going to repeat the same shit as you did here.

I don't think you understand what ad hominem is.

I see you can fall lower pretending dementia after discredit the interlocutor.

Yes, the destruction of the aspect after the energy used to bind the aspect to the Ruby was given to Cain was what caused the pocket dimension to be destroyed and Cain to be expelled.

Nope, after Tar and Gomurr used Cain as a conduit (via incantation) that binds Cyttorak’s destructive aspect to the Ruby, Cain was able to punch Cyttorak, shattering him into pieces. This created a dimensional rift from which he was expelled.

As we see, by destroying Cyttorak's destructive aspect with a physical blow, Cain could escape, but in your cherry picking fallacy you intentionally omit all this.

No, he said a dimensional rift has opened. Not that Juggernaut opened one or ripped anything apart.

Nope, the dimensional rift was not open alone; Juggernaut opened such dimensional rift by destroying Cyttorak’s destructive aspect in one punch. Stop your cherry picking fallacy.

What? The aspect was already a physical thing and it was bound to the pocket dimension inside of the Ruby. Yeah, a completely depowered Cain. Insane feat there, hurting a normal human.

You show a daring ignorance by assuming that Cyttorak’s feats are reduced and limited to a casual corporeal manifestation of one of his aspects.

No, the aspect has literally 0 feats except for it destroying a bunch of villages off panel and then hurting a depowered Cain.

Kid, the feats of Cyttorak’s destructive aspect are based mostly on his avatar, the Juggernaut, who is the physical representation of his destructive power on Earth.

Shattering with a punch a Cyttorak aspect by using his own power, is an impressive feat of the Juggernaut’ striking power, which can't be accomplished neither surpassed nor replicated by any other Marvel character. So stop your cherry picking arguments and lowablling Cyttorak.

Excellent reading comprehension there my friend. His power is to not stop when charging, he charged into someone, knocked him over, and they got up 1 second later completely unharmed. That is not a good strength feat.

Are you intentionally ignoring the point I'm making or what? Knocking someone down or back does not mean you hurt them.

False, you are intentionally ignoring that Strange was briefly hurt by the Juggernaut’s punch in his nose (panel reveals the expression of pain on his face) and the astounding strength he required to do that and knock him down (no matter if it was for a few seconds). I suppose that eeeeeveeeeeeeryone in Marvel can do this to a cosmic entity (on a par with Galactus). Stop your cherry picking arguments and lowablling the feat, please.

No, please read your own scans next time.

More ad hominem fallacies.

He dug his feet into the bedrock to get traction and spent over a month traveling through aggregate, rock, clay, and stone.

Initially he dug over the bedrock (rockhead), later within on it and finally got into the base of Earth's crust where he fractured the tectonic plates.

...and? That's not a rebuttal to what I said. 'Never has such fury been unleashed upon the natural world' is still hyperbole, and fury is not synonymous with collateral damage.

It is not a hyperbola since the collateral damage is notoriously visible.

Wut? Do you know what an island is? He punched a hole in a damned wall...You can literally see a bunch of rocks flying out from the punch.

Read the panel again: “The punch hits home with unimaginable force, ITS SHOCK WAVES hammering thru the ancient granite… shattering the rock, POWDERING IT, slamming ever outward”. Many of those island granite were powdered by the shockwaves of his tremendous blow. Stop your cherry picking fallacy.

He wasn't 'forced' to do anything, you're literally lying at this point. It was a trick to launch Juggernaut into the air and their fight continued for several more pages.

I know the whole fight, the point here is Skaar was forced to use this trick (reverted to child form) due he was physically beaten by Juggernaut in three punches, ie, he couldn't stop him in H2H combat. Even Banner warned him, previously. Stop your cherry picking fallacy.

Are you trolling? It's an alternate universe that's not canon to Earth-616. It's not even an alternate future like What If?s which can be argued to an extent as being legitimate, it's literally an entirely different backstory and everything.

Wrong, as I said before, it is a canon by itself because is an encompassed reality within the Marvel Multiverse and an alternate reality to the mainstream Earth-616. Obviously, the context must vary because it is an alternate reality, but it retains all the aspects of their characters backstory and their rivalry.

You assume it's the standard version of a character unless otherwise specified, which is Cain, and either way the version pictured is Cain. It's not a composite Juggernaut from all alt realities and all other hosts.

Wrong, the Juggernaut’s power is one and the same, regardless of whom is it host or wielder.

The fact that the fight took 8 pages compared to Cain literally 3 shotting Thing (which you yourself already posted) should be evidence enough for you to understand that Colossonaut is significantly weaker.

Ad consequentiam and straw man fallacies. They were different contexts and reasons, besides the Juggernaut’s power is one and the same, independently the host, so is inapplicable that comparison in terms of which the strongest juggernaut is.

Yes, so why in the actual hell are you using it as a feat? Failing to one shot a character that you should be able to kill with a finger flick is not a good feat.

Despite the shit plot, it was a good example of what would happen to a 25-50 ton powerhouse who dares to mess the Juggernaut: simply, he would be killed in one fell swoop. It was a good feat.

Are you actually that incapable of reading?

More ad hominem fallacies.

Thanos fodderised Surfer in 6 punches. Surfer is extremely durable. Juggernaut has never shown the level of striking power needed to 6 shot a character as durable as Surfer. That's entirely what we're discussing.

False. Thanos used his concussive cosmic energy blasts to cowardly attack and weaken SS, to later do it with his fists charged with that energy. What I mean is Thanos took an entirely greater advantage by using more his cosmic energy attack projections in his punches than his physical strength.Either way, this is not impressive since SS was defeated treacherously more with energy attacks than with raw strength.

Cyttorak’s durability outclasses that of Thanos and SS, but Juggernaut was able to shatter his physical destructive aspect with one punch. Thanos has never done anything remotely close to this, much less against an extradimensional God like Cyttorak.

Thanos never caused with his punches highly destructive earthquakes equivalent to 8 Richter scale over a planet with similar characteristics to the Earth.

Thanos has never shown the level of striking power needed to punch, hurt and knock down (briefly) a character as extremely durable as the Stranger (whose durability is by far superior to SS). In fact, Thanos even was not able to physically punch Galactus with his fist because he can’t. Not mention he was physically forced to surrender by him (who is on par with Stranger). No one has been able to punch so hard, hurt (briefly) and topple the Stranger as the Juggernaut did.

As it was proved the level of Juggernaut’s striking power outclasses that of Thanos.

He absolutely has the capability to do it, how easily he stomps heralds with his punches is testament to that and to argue otherwise is moronic.

This does not prove anything.

There was no chain reaction and 0 mention of a chain reaction, it was literally just the shockwaves of their clash that destroyed the planet. Same as the shockwaves destroying the surrounding landscape with Juggernaut vs the Builder, except astronomically more impressive.

False, there was no shockwave and 0 mention of a shockwave. Their grappling just took out from its normal balance the ebbs and tides of the planet, which eventually led to its self-destruction due such instability. Again, they didn't destroy the planet directly, but indirectly.

Not to mention you completely missed the point about the fact that Thanos was able to match Classic Drax, someone who literally ripped the core out of a frickin star with his bare hands, in strength. That again absolutely dwarfs Juggernaut's strength.

Wrong, a star is composed of hot mixed gases, has no solid mass. The destruction of its core was induced by Drax's concussive energy blast projected through his hands. This doesn’t count as a feat of physical strength. Neither destroys planetoids of 10 meters, or at most, the size of a house, is something worthy to stand out.

Not mention, the current Drax is not even the shadow of what he was initially,after his first resurrection. He would be a fly crushed by Juggernaut’s hand.

Again,please work on your reading comprehension.

More ad hominem fallacies.

Surfer has some ludicrous durability feats, Thanos almost killed him in a handful of punches. Nobody is talking about contests of physical strength between the two, we're talking about Thanos's striking ability. You haven't shown a single feat anywhere remotely close to being able to doing what Thanos did.

I only see Thanos using his cosmic energy projected through his hands and punches as concussive blasts to knock out SS in a treachery way. That doesn't prove nothing.

By using more projections of cosmic energy than raw strength to hit, doesn't prove that Thanos has some striking power better than of Juggernaut. Sorry. Until now, there is not a feat that even remotely close to what Juggernaut has done.

Wasn't a chain reaction, please read the scans properly.

Please stop ad hominem fallacies. I explained my point and I rebutted of yours several times.

Hilarious. The best actual strength feat you showed for Juggernaut was 3 shotting Thing.

More straw man fallacies.

I didn't use any fallacies, never insulted you, never lowballed Juggernaut. I literally only showed context to feats that you are either intentionally lying about or don't know about. I couldn't give less of a shit about whether you think I'm being disrespectful or not frankly.

More ad hominem fallacies.

Kid, I don’t think trying to impose me your wrong opinions with argumentative fallacies help you to debate reasonably and much less respectfully with me.