kenshiroo's forum posts

#1 Posted by kenshiroo (922 posts) - - Show Bio

damn, light years went since I went through here.

#2 Edited by kenshiroo (922 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall said:

) that Infinity Gem destroying the Crimson Cosmos

It wasnt even the full power of the Infinity Gauntlet, but a fraction of its true power that was unleashed as a Nemesis wave destroyed Crimson Cosmos during Avengers and Ultraforce story arc:

)LT stopping the IG

) Cytorrak's high-end feats

Not a big fan of Cyttorak and haven't seen any impressive feat, at least as long 7am was here he would blow him out of proportion, he doesn't come often after i repeatedly caught him mis-representing scans and corrected him on 4 thread , and interestingly few other started using the same instances and asking him too many question. Out of answer he convinently disappeared.

I think must make major corrections here, first, this is a scan from the Arc New All Exiles (All New Exiles Infinity, 1995) second, Juggernaut was not wiped out from reality or destroyed by Nemesis, the Infinite Gauntlet or some lies or bullshit that few have created about this scan without even reading the comic.

Juggernaut was teleported to the reality 93060 (Ultraverse) by two agents of Landau, Luckman, and Lake (Zoe Culloden and her associate) (the panel is noted on left corner when he was teleported in Wolverine # 93, 1995), but he was not the only, each member of what will be the Exile team was teleported into an alien planet as part of the Gameworld. This occurs when huge simultaneous power expenditures by Siena Blaze and Amber Hunt throw them and the people they were fighting into the void between dimensions where Juggernaut was trapped.

The scan where appears Juggernaut, shows the time where he was dropped into the Red vortex (generated by Firewalker's energies, an interdimensional entity connected with Amber who lives in the maelstrom barrier between Earth 93060 or Ultarverse and Earth -616) but the same moment big explosions of energy released by Siena and Amber were intertwined with Firewalker’s energies by generating a disruption of space and time between dimensions in which they were teleported into the Red vortex as well. Juggernaut arrived first into the strange Reality (see the scans), then Amber and Siena after collide and the rest of team arrived into the planet as well. They were attacked by dinosaurs who turn out to be robots. After the battle, Reaper runs into Tradesman who apparently suggests how they can teleport again. Reaper forms a circuit between Amber and Siena with his energy channeling sycthe (without warning or permission) and the entire group is again transported but a New York.

It must be remembered this issue is part of the Black September, event where Marvel crossed over the existing Marvel Universe characters with the Ultraverse characters. Juggernaut, Siena Blaze, and Reaper are Marvel Universe characters. Amber Hunt, Shuriken, 'Strike are Ultraverse characters. Here in order the scans

Wolverine # 93, 1995

All New Exiles Infinity, 1995

The All New Exiles 01, 1995

All New Exiles vs. X-Men, 1995

This event has absolutely nothing to do with War Infinity neither the Avengers vs Ultraforce Arc.

#3 Posted by kenshiroo (922 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment said:
@tron_bonne said:
@Chaos Prime said:

Not read all the posts but some of the arguments are that Cyttorak is all powerful because of the power he gave to Juggs.. 
Well yes that is a great feat but then wot about the Galactus Engine?  That Beast was taking down abstracts & celestials.. 

The Galactus Engine should be a moot argument considering that Death defeated it and sucked the entire Cancerverse into Oblivion (non-existent). However, apparently, Oblivion/Death could not obliterate Juggernaut so how suppose is Death or Oblivion able to obliterate Cyttorak. Let alone, a Galactus Engine being able to defeat something that can not be obliterated. 
It was already shown to you in this thread that Oblivion simply killed the Juggernaut, toyed around with his soul, put him back together and spit him back out simply for his own amusement The Galactus engine or anything of a high stature from the Cancerverse would have Killed The Juggernaut as well. You got owned in this thread along time ago, why are to still clinging to it as if you have proven any points thus far?
 
 

It was not pointed in any panel this “ Oblivion simply killed the Juggernaut, toyed around with his soul, put him back together and spit him back out simply for his own amusement

It is wrong , in the original arc, Oblivion was unable to kill the Juggernaut, it just considered him a kind of "bacteria" because it could not get rid of him, Oblivion just proposed Juggernaut to take his memories of spells in change to back him to his dimension. Oblivion just aged him because it could not destroy the Juggernaut, otherwise it would have not proposed a human deal with Cain .

On the other scan Cain said he died in a metaphorical sense because he was aged and was indefinitely floating within Oblivion’s dimension without any purpose and due Oblivion could not destroy him then it proposed him a deal to return him to Earth in exchange for his memories of spells.

#4 Edited by kenshiroo (922 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenshiroo said:

@Prince CortSether said:

@Chaos Prime said:

Not read all the posts but some of the arguments are that Cyttorak is all powerful because of the power he gave to Juggs.. 
Well yes that is a great feat but then wot about the Galactus Engine?  That Beast was taking down abstracts & celestials.. 

Kenshiroo refuses to acknowledge the Galactus Engine and anything shown in Thanos Imperative because it completely wrecks him when he says Cyttorak has greater feats than Shuma.

I suggest you calm down and wait for my rebuttal of your post, there you will get your response.

*Yawn* I think you're the only one here desperate enough to try and get people to believe your Cyttorak claims. 
boy, you are so bad that you're assuming desperately a lot of false things and nonsense about me, stop being silly and don't trolling me.
#5 Posted by kenshiroo (922 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
@Chaos Prime said:
Not read all the posts but some of the arguments are that Cyttorak is all powerful because of the power he gave to Juggs.. 
Well yes that is a great feat but then wot about the Galactus Engine?  That Beast was taking down abstracts & celestials.. 
Kenshiroo refuses to acknowledge the Galactus Engine and anything shown in Thanos Imperative because it completely wrecks him when he says Cyttorak has greater feats than Shuma.

I suggest you calm down and wait for my rebuttal of your post, there you will get your response.

#6 Posted by kenshiroo (922 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
@kenshiroo said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@kenshiroo said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@kenshiroo: I already stomped you. Save yourself the embarrassment by just leaving the thread alone, lest you want to be laughed at again. Besides, we all know that your rebuttal is going to be 95% of your own assumptions and a flawed history of Marvel Universe, rather than evidence from actual panels.
 

No matter how long is your gross post because are 132 pages of text with your blatantly new flawed, twisted and false arguments totally questionable, very detachable and discreditable again. My fiercely rebuttal of your post will wait because I don’t have time for the Vine in these moments but prepare youself I will debunk your moribund last post, soon. ; )

Uh huh, yeah. You're just digging yourself into a deeper hole the more you fill up the page with your nonsense.
 Save your fear and grow up boy, this is a forum battle for debate and it will resolve in this way.
Unfortunately you don't know how to debate. You've already shown this.
  again , save your fear and wait for my rebuttal of your post.
#7 Posted by kenshiroo (922 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
@kenshiroo said:
@Prince CortSether said:
@kenshiroo: I already stomped you. Save yourself the embarrassment by just leaving the thread alone, lest you want to be laughed at again. Besides, we all know that your rebuttal is going to be 95% of your own assumptions and a flawed history of Marvel Universe, rather than evidence from actual panels.
 

No matter how long is your gross post because are 132 pages of text with your blatantly new flawed, twisted and false arguments totally questionable, very detachable and discreditable again. My fiercely rebuttal of your post will wait because I don’t have time for the Vine in these moments but prepare youself I will debunk your moribund last post, soon. ; )

Uh huh, yeah. You're just digging yourself into a deeper hole the more you fill up the page with your nonsense.
 
Save your fear and grow up boy, this is a forum battle for debate and it will resolve in this way.
#8 Posted by kenshiroo (922 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
@kenshiroo: I already stomped you. Save yourself the embarrassment by just leaving the thread alone, lest you want to be laughed at again. Besides, we all know that your rebuttal is going to be 95% of your own assumptions and a flawed history of Marvel Universe, rather than evidence from actual panels.
 

No matter how long is your gross post because are 132 pages of text with your blatantly new flawed, twisted and false arguments totally questionable, very detachable and discreditable again. My fiercely rebuttal of your post will wait because I don’t have time for the Vine in these moments but prepare youself I will debunk your moribund last post, soon. ; )

#9 Edited by kenshiroo (922 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:

@Boobster said:

@Prince CortSether said:
@CapitolPunishment said:
@Prince CortSether: Nothing has changed,, Shuma-Gorath still stomps.
I bumped it only to keep it close in sight. My next post debunking Kenshiroo's fantasy is coming really soon.
WTF, your "opposite" seems to have fun trolling you and calls me and CapitolPunishment his low life friends ?
Yeah, it's obviously Kenshiroo on another account acting bitter.
@Prince CortSether said:

Alrighty. I've already won this debate, but to entertain Kenshiroo, as I'm sure he's just one with not much to do other than dream about  Juggernaut's buff bod, I'll respond to his agonizingly long post.  I've left out his scans in my response because quoting the scans would take up at least 100 pages and just make everything a jumbled mess. If you wish to go to look at his scans, just open up his argument in a separate window or something.
 
There will never be a final rebuttal from you if it concerns your buddies Cyttorak or Juggernaut. But let us get a few things straight. Firstly, just because one has a different opinion from another doesn't mean he is trolling (at that particular moment). Considering I started this thread many months ago and have provided much of the discussion within this thread, I am not at all trolling - especially considering that with the evidence provided more people here have come to support Shuma-Gorath than Cyttorak. Secondly, in order for my argument to have been destroyed you would have had to make it so I would have absolutely no counter to your claims. But that is not the case. You see, 98% of the evidence you post for Cyttorak is not evidence at all. Rather, it's unofficial opinion used with hyperbolic evidence to try and increase mediocre feats to that of something extraordinary. Now that that's out of the way, let's get started. 

 

Wow, do try to disguise your embarrassment of losing was absolutely worthless for you, already all reasonable people on the Vine are noticed you’ve lost this debate long before and thus, all your credibility as a debater was dumped down into the drain, so due this you was pissing me off. So is pretty easy to see how in your last post you’ve boasted of distorting and mixing a whole lot of stuff evidenced by the simple fact that your flawed argument contradicts completely each of very well distinct Marvel's definitions about Omniverse, Magical Dimensions, Outer Planes, Cosmos, Extradimensional, Multiverse and a singles Universes, like the mainstream Marvel Universe 616 or Earth 616. Second is quite evident how you distort the panels at your convenience by expressing flawed and incoherent interpretations handled it towards the opposite direction it was intended to be read correctly the panels, not mention it was evidenced how you merely responds to my explanations in the same twisted way and with simple disagreement opinions. All this reflects you awfully flawed perspective of grasping the context of the scans that you posted and your inability to debunk my arguments as well.

Besides, you obviously by incurring in a whole lot of blatant hypocrisy, all sorts of slanders out of context of this debate and even create multiple accounts in collusion with others kid-trolls to try (very childishly) to defame and trolling me in this and other threads with false accusations only reveals, pitifully, your mediocrity attitude to debate, is as if everything you did it in this is reflecting just your mental derangement. Not mention how desperate, traumatized and silly you do appear yourself assuming all sorts of hypocritical attitudes as result of your extreme degree of frustration and discomfort as well in your evident failure to debunk my arguments based on Cyttorak’s panel evidences and Marvel’s authorities statements about his superiority over Shuma.

Maybe I will take the task to correct all your post which blatantly stripes in most profound ignorance and awful misrepresentation about comic panels. It would take some long time due to my strong work commitments and others priorities I do have to attend in these moments, but I will entertain me, at the extent of my time, by debunking your evident and simple bunch of flawed and false points in order to clear some definitive points for the readers.  ^___^

#10 Edited by kenshiroo (922 posts) - - Show Bio
@lord_oraculous016 said:

as much as you dislike the idea that all of your assumptions with Cyttoraks are all incorrect, that is just the whole truth my good man..                                                          

My explanations have already been proven with panels evidences on page 5 of this thread, for the rest, you should consider for yourself.
 

@lord_oraculous016

said:

no he does not.. there is no such feat or description ever shown in canon comics that he is.. Cyttorak does not represent the concept of good and evil.. nor does he is an abstract.. he is just a A GOD BANISHED FROM EARTH EONS AGO.. that is the one proven fact.. titles are just tiltes.. 
 

Everything about abstract condition of Cyttorak was shown in this thread on page 5, there are the panels evidences and all the explanations about this by Lance Bastro and mine. It is not necessary to repeat Cyttorak is a magical abstract being over and over again. Either way, the simple answer to deny and ignore the facts does not help you at all to refute what we have explained with panel evidences, much less to prove something that goes beyond your mere opinion of disagreement.
 

@lord_oraculous016

said:

i am very much aware of what is the definition of an abstract.. and no.. Cyttorak for intents and purposes does not represent GOOD and EVIL.. much more CREATION and DESTRUCTION, which is already established by Marvel itself to be personified by the Phoenix Force..  Cyttorak does not poses any immediate threat to the Marvel Continuity..  no one of the great forces of the universe seem to even care about him.. the Watcher doesn't even spare him a time.. Cyttorak doesn't even compare to the great power of the universe.. 
 

Cyttorak represents Creation and DESRUCTION by Marvel. Pretending to ignore the fact which Cyttorak posed a threat to the universe 616, when D'Spayre stole a portion of the energies of Cyttorak (turning himself into an Omnipotent Reality Warper) to control the very fabric of the Universe 616, in which he opened the gateway to Oblivion on Earth, on the one hand , also the fact a fraction of Cyttorak energies caused the Void Stage or Entropy of an unearthly physical Universe (destroyed the very fabric of the space of time of Trion Universe by ripping a growing hole), most impressive than Universe Earth 616, and which is ruled and is oneself with the very powerful Trion Gods (creators of the powerful Triple Evil capable of nearly infinite feats), don’t allow you to refute that Cyttorak is a magical abstract being who represents the supreme idea of ​​ the Outer Void (in its destructive aspect) and is above all the physical laws which govern matter and therefore all the abstract cosmic entities that rule those physical universes. The Cyttorak’s power used or well-taken in small fractions of his limitless magical energy through or via his avatar (The Juggernaut) by itself it was enough to do any destruction on a Universal scale and it have proved his power is more than a simple threat to the physical Universe 616 and all its abstract cosmic entities altogether. In addition, the Watchers are cosmic abstract beings who don’t have any idea what is Cyttorak because he is a magical abstract being from another dimension (extradimensional origin) different than Earth 616 and which is absolutely governed by magic and totally different from all the physical alternate dimensions or universes from Earth 616 and others physical universes as well (The Multiverse), so he can not be understood by them, only be associated vaguely to the idea of ​​ what is known as a god, demon or alien in those lower planes or physical universes .

@lord_oraculous016 said:

Do you have any proof of what you are saying..

It was already pointed on page 5.
 

@lord_oraculous016

said:

the Crimson Cosmos is one of the many dimensions adjacent to that of the Earth's.. the Living Tribunal has jurisdiction over all these planes as shown, that he has jurisdiction over the Splinter Realms which is even farther that the Crimson Cosmos..    

Wrong, The Outer Planes are magical dimensions which include a host of physical representations of a particular moral or ethical alignment in which the abstract mystical entity that dwells there embodies the traits of those ideas related to that alignment. The Outer Planes are dimensions magical in origin unconcerned and unrelated to the Earth 616. Living tribunal has jurisdiction only in those universes/dimensions which are physical in origin and so where there are hierarchies of abstract cosmic entities, however, the Outer Planes like Cyttorak, there no exist abstract cosmic entities because they are ruled 100% by magic of the abstract magical being which is oneself with that dimension and is extradimensional in origin. The Inners Planes are directly connected to the Earth 616’s dimension and the Splinter realms are realms that are connected to the Underworlds of Earth's dimension. The Outer Planes are not connected with the Earth 616's dimension except when the extradimensional entity wants in its attempt to prey it, conquer or destroy it, as Cyttorak does through his avatar, the Juggernaut. Cyttorak's avatar proved to be the strongest avatar of the Principalities (Wager of the Octessence).

According to Official FAQ of Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe ( http://www.marvunapp.com/ohotmu/appendixes/index.html ) the definition of each groups of magical dimension:
 
1) The Inners Planes of Pantheon of Gods (Elders Gods, Skyfathers, etc) related with Earth 616’s dimension origins, are dimensions composed of the same basic elemental components (earth, air, fire, water) that make up the physical planes and obey of the same physical laws of Earth’s dimension because they all were formed with materials from the Earthly plane.

 

2) The Outers Planes are magical dimensions where the laws of the physical world fall away, revealing a landscape of colorful abstractions. All the material in these dimensions are composed of mystic radiant essences. Unlike of the Inner Planes, the residents of the Outer Planes are not connected to or concerned with what happens in Earth 616’s dimension or the mainstream Marvel Universe.

Cyttorak is located here:

3) Splinters Realms are different branched planes shattered from a single massive plane and are connected to Earth 616’s underworlds. In these dimensions, the Earth’s physical laws often do not apply; there is no gravity as we know it, time moves in different ways and are ruled by a myriad of warring mystic entities (Lords of Splinter Realms) who seek to expand their territories.

Source:
http://www.marvunapp.com/ohotmu/appendixes/mdapp.htm

Having said differential means about each classification of magical dimensions, the Outer Planes are extradimensional origin:

Extradimensional

“(1) A being from a different dimension.

(2) Of or having to do with a different dimension other than Earth-616.”

http://marvel.com/universe/Glossary:E#ixzz1Tc3cxOAA

 
The Cyttorak’s magical dimension/Outer Plane lacks of any abstract cosmic hierarchy due it is completely different (because is absolutely magical) and is not connected to Earth 616’s universe. All said shows itself Cyttorak’s Crimson Cosmos/Outer Plane is from extradimensional origin totally different and independent from the Elder Gods, Elderspawn, Old Ones, Undying Ones, Nameless Ones, Pantheon of Gods, Fallen Gods,  Hell-Lords, Whirldemons, Lord of Splinter Realms, Fear Lords, Nethergods, Demons-Angel hybrid and Para-demons. Therefore, is located within the Omniverse as defined by Marvel.
 
Cyttorak proved to be the most powerful Principality, over Watoomb, Raggadorr, Ikonn, Balthakk, Farallah, Hoggoth, Agamotto, Cinnabus, Dyzakk, Krakkan, Nirvalon, Valtorr, Urzuu, Ryzzanel and Sulfindum. 

Multiverse

“(1) A group of universes which are in some way related.

(2) The Multiverse is the collection of alternate dimensions with a similar nature and universal hierarchy. Earth-616 and the vast bulk of the alternate Earths in the Marvel Universe (which include beings like the Uatu the Watcher, Eternity, etc.) are within the same Multiverse. The myriad realms of Earth-616's Multiverse are overseen by the Living Tribunal. Those realms that lack this hierarchy of power are outside of the Multiverse, but within the larger Omniverse. Further, the realms with a Multiverse are divided into divergent Earths, who share a common history and all diverged at a specific point, and alternate Earths, who are similar, but possess many inherent differences.”

http://marvel.com/universe/Glossary:M

Omniverse (Short Definition)

“The collection of every single universe, dimension, reality, etc. This includes the real world, as well as the Marvel Universe , the Star Trek Universe, the Image Universe, etc. Omniverse is also the conceptual ensemble of all possible universes, with all possible laws of physics.”

http://marvel.com/universe/Glossary:O#Omniverse#ixzz1TcXzdQLm

More detailed definitions about Omniverse, Dimensions, Cosmos, Multiverse, Universe -616- here:

http://www.marvunapp.com/ohotmu/appendixes/omnapp.htm

It’s absolutely clear; all this explains Cyttorak/Outer Plane/Crimson Cosmos is just independent, unconnected and different dimension to the physical Universe 616 or mainstream Marvel Universe (Earth -616-) because is entirely created and ruled by the magic of an abstract magical being, who is extradimensional in origin and is located within the Omniverse. However, Marvel has never revealed how were created the Outer Planes.
 

@lord_oraculous016

said:

i never did ever mentioned that Cyttorak is an Elder God, nor did i ever dare to say such as Elder Gods are clearly beyond his level.. Cyttorak himself originated from Earth my good man.. he was banished eons ago..
 

Wrong, Cyttorak never was originated on Earth; he just had only limited influence on Earth during the prehistory at the moment he was banished under unrevealed circumstances to his point of origin, the Crimson Cosmos, according to Marvel. In addition, each Cyttorak’s panel feat has been shown to be beyond the level of the Elder Gods.
 

@lord_oraculous016

said:

Marvel has never ever hinted any special connotation in Cyttorak's origins..  

And so, do you pretend mistakenly to assume that Cyttorak was created on Earth?

@lord_oraculous016 said:

Cyttorak is an intermediate magical being for he holds both concepts of malevolence and benevolence..

Marvel never mentioned this " intermediary". Cyttorak as an abstract magical being just represents the ideas of good and evil, creation and destruction within humans, aliens and demons.

@lord_oraculous016 said:

as such, he possess both qualities of a god and a demon..

Humans and even Fear Lords can not understand what it means exactly Cyttorak and due this, he is imaginatively displayed in different ways either as a god, demon or alien, according to how they associate him to the notions of good and evil, creation or destruction. Reason Cyttorak as magical abstract is called and adored par excellence, in his destructive concept, as the Lord of Oblivion by Spite.
 

@lord_oraculous016

said:

the scan doesn't prove any of your claims.. and once again, Cyttorak is not an abstract as even without his existence, everything will continue to work normally.. he is not an Elder God, much more an Abstracts as both beings has shown far greater feats Cyttorak can ever hope for.. 


Sorry, the scans and Official Marvel information I’ve pointed out proved my claims. So far , you have not pointed a single evidence to refute the fact (depicted and supported by the authorities of Marvel) about Cyttorak is an abstract magical being, so you've lost strongly here dude.