k4tzm4n's forum posts

#1 Posted by k4tzm4n (39714 posts) - - Show Bio
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#2 Posted by k4tzm4n (39714 posts) - - Show Bio

@lurkero said:

But when the heck are new episode of the current TMNT show going to air? You're hurting me, Nickelodeon .

This does look adorable though. I'll check it out.

Aug 2nd.

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#3 Posted by k4tzm4n (39714 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho said:
@k4tzm4n said:
@newecho said:
@gaztacular said:

@newecho: Cyber caught Wolverine's strike. By the claws. While hanging from a tree. Missing an eye. On his blind side. Even if you're Spider-fast, that's a skill showing and a half, man.

I knew that one but wolverine isn't as fast as either of these guys... Cyber is out of his league in my opinion and the poison is the thing that will help him more than his skill.

No one is saying Cyber and Wolverine are faster or even on par with Agent Venom and Kaine in terms of speed. We are, however, saying that Cyber's record proves he at least has the reflexes to possibly land a slash on either of them during a close encounter.

That's cool,, I get what you guys are saying. Another thing that is being overlooked is the longer the fight goes the more Old venom Flash will become. He won't kill either which is how he is a good guy but he will if I might borrow the rock's phrase and layeth the smacketh down lol.. Its just hard for me to see very many scenarios in which the wolvie rogues win, put up a good fight? yes but win? no..

I'm not overlooking that - I haven't even been debating about who I think should take a majority and why! I'm not here to convince you team Wolverine villains should win; I've just been trying to help people better understand Cyber's capabilities.

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#4 Edited by k4tzm4n (39714 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho said:
@gaztacular said:

@newecho: Cyber caught Wolverine's strike. By the claws. While hanging from a tree. Missing an eye. On his blind side. Even if you're Spider-fast, that's a skill showing and a half, man.

I knew that one but wolverine isn't as fast as either of these guys... Cyber is out of his league in my opinion and the poison is the thing that will help him more than his skill.

No one is saying Cyber and Wolverine are faster or even on par with Agent Venom and Kaine in terms of speed. We are, however, saying that Cyber's record proves he at least has the reflexes to possibly land a slash on either of them during a close encounter.

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#5 Posted by k4tzm4n (39714 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: He did get impaled by a 80 tonner's Blade and survived, While i'm sure Gorgon could cut him, I doubt it would even mean much or even last long.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Gorgon's attacks would be felt by an in character Agent Venom. I'm not saying Gorgon is probably going to kill Agent Venom, but I do believe - given Agent Venom's showings - that he has what it takes to inflict some major damage.

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#6 Posted by k4tzm4n (39714 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho said:
@k4tzm4n said:
@sirfizzwhizz said:

@k4tzm4n: Educating like a boss.

The class is Cyber 101. Your instructor is Casey Jones k4. But really, I hope that helped at least a few people get a better read on the character before voting.

What are cyber's actual feats? I only know of like 4 things he has done and they were all from wolverine origins. I know Logan has trouble with him and he has even bested logan before but to be fair kaine and venom both outclass wolverine by a good margin in terms of strength, speed, agility, and long ranged attacks.. Could they not web him up and throw him or bang him from side to side? Maybe it would have to be venom doing it as cyber could break thru kaine's webbing with his strength and claw.. Also what are his skill feats besides helping train daken and hanging with wolverine?

I've already stated webbing would be a possible way to defeat Cyber. Y U NO READ, NEWECHO?!? His skill feats are primarily getting the better of Wolverine - he's had no problem dodging his attacks and even catching his wrist after an attack is thrown. Aside from that, he's used his might to smack around other characters. He doesn't have many showings, but the few he does have strongly imply he's a very talented hand-to-hand fighter and capable of delivering hallucinogens/poisons with a scratch.

@k4tzm4n has the right idea. The question isn't "can Cyber beat either Venom or Kaine?" He probably can't. The question is "can Cyber stand up to one of them for as long as it takes Gorgon to beat the other one?" He certainly can. This guy can catch Wolverine's claws in his hand or catch a train to the face and walk away from either.

Thanks. Seeing as Agent Venom isn't immune to cutting damage and he's in character, I see him having some major trouble with Gorgon.

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#7 Posted by k4tzm4n (39714 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Educating like a boss.

The class is Cyber 101. Your instructor is Casey Jones k4. But really, I hope that helped at least a few people get a better read on the character before voting.

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#8 Edited by k4tzm4n (39714 posts) - - Show Bio

My memory's a little fuzzy on Murphy's exact feats, but I feel like team Marvel has the physicals, skills, weaponry, and environment needed to pull a win here.

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#9 Edited by k4tzm4n (39714 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: He could and I imagine that would keep Cyber for the count and probably kill him, too. Because of that, I imagine Kaine wouldn't do that since, last I knew, he was strongly against killing and this fight doesn't have circumstances that would justify him being full of rage and unleashing like that against Cyber (kind of like the way he did against Kraven). I imagine he'd be much more likely to try and win via webbing.

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#10 Posted by k4tzm4n (39714 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho said:
@k4tzm4n said:
@newecho said:
@k4tzm4n said:
@newecho said:
@super_soldierxii said:
@newecho said:
@highaccuser said:
@k4tzm4n said:
@highaccuser said:

I appreciate the tag. As for who wins I don't know enough about Cyber. Gorgon beats Kaine but loses to Venom.

Feel free to post any questions you may have about Cyber and I'll answer them when I have time later.

I know he gave Wolverine problems and his adamatium makes him hard to hurt so I guess I'd have to ask what if anything has ever been able to hurt him? Also how strong is he physically? Would he be able to break webs or tendrils?

Cyber doesn't approach kaine or venom in strength. I think at his strongest he is a 10 tonner. He got beat pretty easily by wolverine in that particular suit... I mean I know he gave him a little trouble but nothing to say he would hang with kaine or venom. Is the gorgon faster than either kaine or venom? that's the only reason why I would even give him a chance against them.

I kind of disagree insofar as downplaying Cyber's "formidability" as a Wolverine antagonist.

Wolverine only ever really defeated Cyber via plot.

Cyber's not just a dumb adamantium coated brute either. He's a top hand to hand fighter ... Silas Burr has nearly the same breadth and depth of military and combat training as Logan himself (well over a century old). Though not quite the same accomplished martial artist as Wolverine, he's still no slouch. Fast enough to tag Logan too, so he's fast enough to keep the Spider's on their collective toes.

He may be billed as a 10 tonner, but it's really not his strength that matters in this fight. Much like Wolverine, it's the claws they'll need to be worrying about. His real advantage are the toxins and hallucinogens he coats his claws with. Wolverine's healing factor is barely able to cope. He lands one little scratch, and the Spider's will be thrown for a loop.

He is completely coated in adamantium as well. I mean, only his mouth is vulnerable which he protects fairly well. I wouldn't try to downplay Silas too much here ... he is easily a very dangerous match for the Spiders in question.

The problem with this is Logan is slower than both Kaine and Venom and Logan doesn't punch near as hard as them either as both are well over 30 tonners. They also have long distance fighting in their favor as they wouldn't have to get close to him. He should never touch them. Will they knock him out quickly? No. But he is exposed at the chin and they would be fast enough to hit that specific weak point. His fighting skills don't really amount to much against opponents like kaine and venom when they have every other advantage. Cyber is no slouch which is true but he isn't fighting street levelers with no powers or low level powers either...

How do his fighting skills not amount to much against them? We've seen skilled opponents get their hands on Kaine and Agent Venom in their own series - it's important to remember they're in character, not unleashing - and a simple scratch can hinder their performance. I'm not saying Cyber should beat either, but he definitely has what it takes to keep them occupied while Gorgon either wins or loses against his opponent. Also, like I said in other posts, Cyber has durability feats that go well beyond being okay after a slash in the face - he's gotten back up after being smashed square in the face by Strong Guy, after all.

Getting their hands on and beating them are two different things. Kaine and even venom aren't stupid, they will fight with him for a few and know they can't just knock him out and the martial arts advantage doesn't mean anything if he can't knock them out. I have never seen cyber use pressure points or anything like that and don't think he could pressure point either of the spideys even if he does know how to use them. His skill really is president on helping train Daken? and going toe to toe with wolverine. What other skill feats does he have? Also how many punches to the face could he take? I mean he only took one from strong guy. He is below in durability, quickness, strength, punching power, and the fact he is long distance challenged should be enough for either of the spidey's beating him. How fast? I don't know, I think Venom beats him faster than Kaine in my opinion... The gorgon is a completely different animal as he does have tools in the bag to compete even though he does not have the actual strength or punching power to compete...

What about my post implies Kaine and Agent Venom are stupid? I point out they're in character, so going in close is something they won't avoid doing - at least not at first for some period of time, especially if they're capable of smacking him around. Once they see doses of blunt force won't suffice, that's when they'd likely switch to other options, and even then, he won't be easy to remove due to his tactics and claws. And literally nothing about his skill has to do with him landing pressure points or the force behind his punches - it's about the fact his claws are laced with powerful hallucinogens and poisons. Considering he's caught Wolverine's wrist before (note: this obviously isn't saying Wolverine is faster than Kaine or Venom, but he is more skilled and he isn't slow), I'd say that's proof he's hardly someone with shoddy reflexes. Given Agent Venom and Kaine's history of fighting in character and the multiple times I've seen them tagged by less talented opponents, they aren't untouchable and Cyber getting even just a single slash is hardly far-fetched. I'm not sure why you're downplaying the Strong Guy feat. He got violently smashed in the face by Strong Guy, then thrown, and got back up and was totally fine. Even if you think the villain team loses - which is fine - his durability isn't something that should be overlooked and I'd say it's his most important quality here because it'll give Gorgon extra time in his fight. To me, Cyber isn't here to win (because I don't believe he'd take a majority over either); he's here to buy Gorgon time. He'd try to win, but I don't think he would. I do, however, think he has the durability, skill, tactics, and game changing hallucinogen that could allow him to keep someone busy as Gorgon possibly defeats his enemy.

But would the spike effect venom? It would effect kaine, I am pretty sure. Btw I never said it would be easy for either of them to beat him, I just said he doesn't belong in the fight because of exactly what you said. He is just biding time before he gets defeated. Another thing on the Gorgon, while he is as fast maybe even faster than the spideys and has the mental and stone stare powers(which I am still not convince work on Venom), does he have the punching power to beat either without his other powers working on them? Again I think Kaine can be defeated by the gorgon in certain scenarios but Venom is completely different..

I never lowballed the strong guy feat either, I just asked if he could take multiple shots. IF strong guy got him pinned down and punched him 5 to 10 times, Could he take it? it was a question not a down play.

Yes, Kraven proved that Agent Venom isn't immune to poisons and cutting/stabbing damage (something that'll help Gorgon)... which is odd since Brock was. Seeing as the hallucinogens worked on Wolverine, it's safe to assume they would with Agent Venom as well. As for him not belonging in the fight, I strongly disagree. Seeing as Gorgon is such a beast (I'd say he's the MVP), having an equally impressive combatant on his team would make things unfair for team anti-hero. Cyber brings different advantages and different factors to the fight - it makes things more interesting and more balanced, I believe. Just because I don't think he'd take a majority over either opponent doesn't mean he doesn't belong in the fight - he can still give either character hell and his weaknesses help balance Gorgon's very, very impressive strengths. Biding time doesn't mean he'd necessarily lose, either. He can still be in it when Gorgon defeats his enemy, then it's 2v1. Or, Cyber can make his opponent suffer with the hallucinogens, making them less effective if they beat him and move on to help their teammate. There's a lot of cool variables in this one.

Seeing as you said he "only" took one punch to the face by Strong Guy and then stated he "is" below in durability, yes, I viewed that as downplaying Cyber's durability. We've never seen Cyber knocked out via blunt force, so there's no way of knowing his limits. Everything that's hit him in the face, he's felt but he quickly recovered. I imagine Kaine and Agent Venom can KO him with punches to the face, but they'd need to really unleash if they want to win that way. I'd say it's doable, but overall, he's still ridiculously durable. While they're slugging away, he could give them just a simple stratch and that'll hinder them for the rest of the fight. It wouldn't be out of character since he's proven he can still react while taking pain (e.g. him catching Wolverine's hand immediately after getting clashed in the face).

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