Preview of Batman And Robin #1

I for one totally loved Tomasi's 3 issue arc and if this "Nobody" cat's as interesting a villain as The White Knight was, then I should thoroughly enjoy myself! Take a peek and drop your own thoughts. 

And yes, I'm fully aware this is the cover for #3
21 Comments
21 Comments
Posted by RainEffect
@JonesDeini: Is the Robin still Damian? 
 
If they retcon the whole Talia/Bruce relationship, I will murder someone.
Posted by cattlebattle
@RainEffect said:
@JonesDeini: Is the Robin still Damian? 
 
If they retcon the whole Talia/Bruce relationship, I will murder someone.
Yup Damian is still Robin
Online
Posted by RainEffect
@cattlebattle: Phew! *Wipes forehead ... and puts away hunting rifle*
 
Thanks for the confirmation!
Posted by JonesDeini
@RainEffect:  
Honestly I wouldn't mind that relationship being retconned. Morrison admittedly made a mistake with the whole "rape baby" origin for Damian. He wanted to bring Son of The Demon in as cannon, but hadn't read it in so many years and wrote Damian's origin based on what he thought happened. Damian's definitely still around though...for better or worse. 
Posted by cattlebattle
@RainEffect said:
@cattlebattle: Phew! *Wipes forehead ... and puts away hunting rifle*  Thanks for the confirmation!
LOL, I was hoping for something else honestly, I hate Robian (yeah, thats what I call him). I guess going through all the retcon nonsense would be more troubling than its worth though
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Posted by RainEffect
@JonesDeini said:
@RainEffect:  Honestly I wouldn't mind that relationship being retconned. Morrison admittedly made a mistake with the whole "rape baby" origin for Damian. He wanted to bring Son of The Demon in as cannon, but hadn't read it in so many years and wrote Damian's origin based on what he thought happened. Damian's definitely still around though...for better or worse. 
I hate that they made the Damian thing a rape scenario. It's ridiculous. The relationship between Talia and Bruce is by far my favourite comic book relationship of all time, and having it spat on like that is an massive insult.
Posted by JonesDeini
@RainEffect:  
Yeah, me no likey Batrape...or how Morrison Handled Talia at all to be honest. 
Posted by shawn87

At first I was going to pass on this series (strictly due to money) but now I think I'm gonna pick it up. I like Tomasi a lot. He's a pretty awesome writer 

Posted by entropy_aegis
@RainEffect said:
@JonesDeini said:
@RainEffect:  Honestly I wouldn't mind that relationship being retconned. Morrison admittedly made a mistake with the whole "rape baby" origin for Damian. He wanted to bring Son of The Demon in as cannon, but hadn't read it in so many years and wrote Damian's origin based on what he thought happened. Damian's definitely still around though...for better or worse. 
I hate that they made the Damian thing a rape scenario. It's ridiculous. The relationship between Talia and Bruce is by far my favourite comic book relationship of all time, and having it spat on like that is an massive insult.
Time to move on,Talia and Bruce have'nt been in a relationship since the 80's,infact i challange you to find an incontinuity comic from the last 15-18 years where they kiss each other,exculding Hush and flashback scenes. I ship her with other people now(Kobra,Deathstroke,Bane)
@JonesDeini
said:
@RainEffect:  Yeah, me no likey Batrape...or how Morrison Handled Talia at all to be honest. 
LOL,i would like to clear something.Morrison actually was'nt wrong in thinking that Talia may have forced Bruce to sleep with her.The actual marriage between Talia and Bruce took place in DC special series Batman spectacular,and there Batman was unconscious during the ceremony(LoL).Son of the Demon had Batman accepting that particular marriage as being legit,something which he had refused to do initially. 
 
As for this preview,i'm honestly not sure what to think,Brightest Day,GL:corps and Black Adam:the dark age were all very average.Tomasi's Nightwing was off to a great start but it ended abruptly due to Bruce's death.His Batman and Robin arc was okay but it was only Dick whose characterization was spot on.
Posted by RainEffect
@entropy_aegis said:
@RainEffect said:
@JonesDeini said:
@RainEffect:  Honestly I wouldn't mind that relationship being retconned. Morrison admittedly made a mistake with the whole "rape baby" origin for Damian. He wanted to bring Son of The Demon in as cannon, but hadn't read it in so many years and wrote Damian's origin based on what he thought happened. Damian's definitely still around though...for better or worse. 
I hate that they made the Damian thing a rape scenario. It's ridiculous. The relationship between Talia and Bruce is by far my favourite comic book relationship of all time, and having it spat on like that is an massive insult.
Time to move on,Talia and Bruce have'nt been in a relationship since the 80's,infact i challange you to find an incontinuity comic from the last 15-18 years where they kiss each other,exculding Hush and flashback scenes. I ship her with other people now(Kobra,Deathstroke,Bane)
@JonesDeini
said:
@RainEffect:  Yeah, me no likey Batrape...or how Morrison Handled Talia at all to be honest. 
LOL,i would like to clear something.Morrison actually was'nt wrong in thinking that Talia may have forced Bruce to sleep with her.The actual marriage between Talia and Bruce took place in DC special series Batman spectacular,and there Batman was unconscious during the ceremony(LoL).Son of the Demon had Batman accepting that particular marriage as being legit,something which he had refused to do initially.  As for this preview,i'm honestly not sure what to think,Brightest Day,GL:corps and Black Adam:the dark age were all very average.Tomasi's Nightwing was off to a great start but it ended abruptly due to Bruce's death.His Batman and Robin arc was okay but it was only Dick whose characterization was spot on.
Go to her Comicvine Page, and then go to her Personality section. I added that entire section to her Wiki and I referenced comics aside from Hush that back up my point.
Posted by entropy_aegis
@RainEffect: All right i'll take a peek but what point are you backing up?
Posted by entropy_aegis
@RainEffect:  
Checked it,i honestly tried very hard to find something i did'nt already know,however i would be interested to find out when she was regarded as Dick Grayson level in agility,i have yet to come across a comic where she had to bend/flex her body even minimally.
Posted by RainEffect
@entropy_aegis
You said - "Time to move on,Talia and Bruce have'nt been in a relationship since the 80's,infact i challange you to find an incontinuity comic from the last 15-18 years where they kiss each other,exculding Hush and flashback scenes." 
 
I provided two instances that aren't Hush where they've shared intimacy or there has been a representation of intimacy. In fact, during Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul, there's a moment that they blatantly lock eyes with each other intimately. I don't know how to scan a CD Image Display file, but I can tell you that it occurs after Bruce stitches up a wound of hers and he asks her if she's alright. They stare at each other in one panel, the next one, Bruce smiles. 
 
So, that's my answer to your challenge. 
 
As for the Dick Grayson thing, it wasn't canonly 'proven' to my knowledge. There are a variety of scans from Gotham City Sirens of her moving with outstanding agility. The reason I made the connection between the two of them is that she was trained in Ninjutsu. Combine that with her heightened physical aspects provided from continuous use of the Lazarus Pits and it makes sense. To be fair, I don't know of Dick Grayson too well, aside from his gymnastics background. If you can provide me with a decent argument against the agility comparison, I'll change it.
Posted by higher_evolutionary
@JonesDeini: who raped talia, batman ?
Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt
@higher_evolutionary said:
@JonesDeini: who raped talia, batman ?
other way around
Posted by entropy_aegis
@higher_evolutionary said:
@JonesDeini: who raped talia, batman ?
@Avenging-X-Bolt said:
@higher_evolutionary said:
@JonesDeini: who raped talia, batman ?
other way around
LOL@RainEffect said:
@entropy_aegis
You said - "Time to move on,Talia and Bruce have'nt been in a relationship since the 80's,infact i challange you to find an incontinuity comic from the last 15-18 years where they kiss each other,exculding Hush and flashback scenes." 
 
I provided two instances that aren't Hush where they've shared intimacy or there has been a representation of intimacy. In fact, during Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul, there's a moment that they blatantly lock eyes with each other intimately. I don't know how to scan a CD Image Display file, but I can tell you that it occurs after Bruce stitches up a wound of hers and he asks her if she's alright. They stare at each other in one panel, the next one, Bruce smiles. 
 
So, that's my answer to your challenge. 
 
As for the Dick Grayson thing, it wasn't canonly 'proven' to my knowledge. There are a variety of scans from Gotham City Sirens of her moving with outstanding agility. The reason I made the connection between the two of them is that she was trained in Ninjutsu. Combine that with her heightened physical aspects provided from continuous use of the Lazarus Pits and it makes sense. To be fair, I don't know of Dick Grayson too well, aside from his gymnastics background. If you can provide me with a decent argument against the agility comparison, I'll change it.
I asked for a panel where they kiss,but regardless i never questioned their feelings,i simply stated that they have'nt been a couple in a long time and this is true.There was an instance in Resurrection where she attempted to slap him and later she took Damian and ran away leaving him and the others against Ra's and the LOA. 
No Mans Land is the only story with a decent interaction between Bruce and Talia that comes to mind,he has'nt even met her ever since he returned from the past. 
A lot of people are trained in Ninjutsu in the comics.Dick's agility is off the charts for most human characters,Bruce,Cassandra, and maybe Selina,Shiva and Bane are the only non metas' that can compare.Jason and Tim are good too,but Talia does'nt make it on that level.
Posted by The Stegman
@higher_evolutionary: i think Talia raped Batman....just like how Green Arrow got raped...apparently it's easy to rape crime fighting billionaire vigilantes in the Dc universe 
Posted by Roldan
@The Stegman said:
@higher_evolutionary: i think Talia raped Batman....just like how Green Arrow got raped...apparently it's easy to rape crime fighting billionaire vigilantes in the Dc universe 
Didn't Dick get raped too?
Posted by RainEffect
@entropy_aegis said:
@RainEffect said:
@entropy_aegis
You said - "Time to move on,Talia and Bruce have'nt been in a relationship since the 80's,infact i challange you to find an incontinuity comic from the last 15-18 years where they kiss each other,exculding Hush and flashback scenes." 
 
I provided two instances that aren't Hush where they've shared intimacy or there has been a representation of intimacy. In fact, during Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul, there's a moment that they blatantly lock eyes with each other intimately. I don't know how to scan a CD Image Display file, but I can tell you that it occurs after Bruce stitches up a wound of hers and he asks her if she's alright. They stare at each other in one panel, the next one, Bruce smiles. 
 
So, that's my answer to your challenge. 
 
As for the Dick Grayson thing, it wasn't canonly 'proven' to my knowledge. There are a variety of scans from Gotham City Sirens of her moving with outstanding agility. The reason I made the connection between the two of them is that she was trained in Ninjutsu. Combine that with her heightened physical aspects provided from continuous use of the Lazarus Pits and it makes sense. To be fair, I don't know of Dick Grayson too well, aside from his gymnastics background. If you can provide me with a decent argument against the agility comparison, I'll change it.
I asked for a panel where they kiss,but regardless i never questioned their feelings,i simply stated that they have'nt been a couple in a long time and this is true.There was an instance in Resurrection where she attempted to slap him and later she took Damian and ran away leaving him and the others against Ra's and the LOA. No Mans Land is the only story with a decent interaction between Bruce and Talia that comes to mind,he has'nt even met her ever since he returned from the past. A lot of people are trained in Ninjutsu in the comics.Dick's agility is off the charts for most human characters,Bruce,Cassandra, and maybe Selina,Shiva and Bane are the only non metas' that can compare.Jason and Tim are good too,but Talia does'nt make it on that level.
A relationship doesn't have to be justified by physical contact. The instances I gave on her page are all intimate events that directly contrast the retcon rape and how a major portion of her personality is loyal to Bruce Wayne (but, sadly, more loyal to Damian at the end of the day). 
 
You forget, Talia's physical skills have been moderately augmented by the Lazarus Pits. They're not on a Super Soldier Serum level, and probably not as augmented as Ra's', but augmented nonetheless. But, you're right, it was a little ambitious for me to match her to Dick; as he is the best gymnast in the Gotham Universe. I'll go and fix it up. 
Edited by entropy_aegis
@Roldan said:

@The Stegman said:

@higher_evolutionary: i think Talia raped Batman....just like how Green Arrow got raped...apparently it's easy to rape crime fighting billionaire vigilantes in the Dc universe 
Didn't Dick get raped too?
Yes  
@RainEffect
said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@RainEffect said:
@entropy_aegis
You said - "Time to move on,Talia and Bruce have'nt been in a relationship since the 80's,infact i challange you to find an incontinuity comic from the last 15-18 years where they kiss each other,exculding Hush and flashback scenes." 
 
I provided two instances that aren't Hush where they've shared intimacy or there has been a representation of intimacy. In fact, during Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul, there's a moment that they blatantly lock eyes with each other intimately. I don't know how to scan a CD Image Display file, but I can tell you that it occurs after Bruce stitches up a wound of hers and he asks her if she's alright. They stare at each other in one panel, the next one, Bruce smiles. 
 
So, that's my answer to your challenge. 
 
As for the Dick Grayson thing, it wasn't canonly 'proven' to my knowledge. There are a variety of scans from Gotham City Sirens of her moving with outstanding agility. The reason I made the connection between the two of them is that she was trained in Ninjutsu. Combine that with her heightened physical aspects provided from continuous use of the Lazarus Pits and it makes sense. To be fair, I don't know of Dick Grayson too well, aside from his gymnastics background. If you can provide me with a decent argument against the agility comparison, I'll change it.
I asked for a panel where they kiss,but regardless i never questioned their feelings,i simply stated that they have'nt been a couple in a long time and this is true.There was an instance in Resurrection where she attempted to slap him and later she took Damian and ran away leaving him and the others against Ra's and the LOA. No Mans Land is the only story with a decent interaction between Bruce and Talia that comes to mind,he has'nt even met her ever since he returned from the past. A lot of people are trained in Ninjutsu in the comics.Dick's agility is off the charts for most human characters,Bruce,Cassandra, and maybe Selina,Shiva and Bane are the only non metas' that can compare.Jason and Tim are good too,but Talia does'nt make it on that level.
A relationship doesn't have to be justified by physical contact. The instances I gave on her page are all intimate events that directly contrast the retcon rape and how a major portion of her personality is loyal to Bruce Wayne (but, sadly, more loyal to Damian at the end of the day). 
 
You forget, Talia's physical skills have been moderately augmented by the Lazarus Pits. They're not on a Super Soldier Serum level, and probably not as augmented as Ra's', but augmented nonetheless. But, you're right, it was a little ambitious for me to match her to Dick; as he is the best gymnast in the Gotham Universe. I'll go and fix it up. 
The retcon rape was afterall a mistake as admitted by the writer himself,what i'm trying to say is that Batman has left her behind and whilst he does care he simply does'nt love her now.The Jason thing actually makes it worse for Talia,if Bruce ever knew about it then he'll prolly forgive Jason but he'll never forgive her after that. 
Btw she is'nt loyal to anyone these days,not even poor Damian.While you're right that a relationship does'nt require physical contact,but here you have to make an exception if you consider his relationship to Selina and even Silver St Cloud.
Posted by JonesDeini
@entropy_aegis:  
I agree they've moved apart from one another. That I'm fine with, but I don't like how it was written if you get me.