38 Comments
Posted by JonesDeini

I'm likely going to have to drop another book to check this out...but then again, Snyder's likely going to give me all the Batman I need in my life. I mean do any of us really need this dearth of books with Bruce in them? I'm looking at potentially reading Batman, Batman and Robin, Nightwing, and possibly this now...it's just too much. 

Posted by Blurred View

Good to see DC is having a writer write one of their books instead of an artist in at least this case. On the other hand, it's Paul Jenkins. So I still probably won't read it. I guess it's just a babystep in the right direction. Now if only DC could stop chasing off writers like Brian Wood...

Posted by JonesDeini
@Blurred View said:
Good to see DC is having a writer write one of their books instead of an artist in at least this case. On the other hand, it's Paul Jenkins. So I still probably won't read it. I guess it's just a babystep in the right direction. Now if only DC could stop chasing off writers like Brian Wood...
Wow, you not down with Jenkins?
Posted by Blurred View
@JonesDeini said:
Wow, you not down with Jenkins?
Ten years ago I liked some of his stuff. Since then? I've hated pretty much all of his work for the past several years. Sentry, Penance, Hiro-Kala, Front Line... I think he writes like an amateur and constantly mishandles potentially good ideas. He's a writer I try to avoid now. If this is the start of him leaving Marvel for DC, then it's just another writer shift where Marvel benefits as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by shroudofsorrow

I planned on checking this title out when Finch was writing it but if Jenkins is taking over...I may have to rethink that choice.
 
What was wrong with Finch?  I thought he did a good job with Batman: The Dark Knight.

Posted by JonesDeini
@shroudofsorrow said:
I planned on checking this title out when Finch was writing it but if Jenkins is taking over...I may have to rethink that choice.  What was wrong with Finch?  I thought he did a good job with Batman: The Dark Knight.
Ugh, Finch's writing was terrible to me. He wanted to be Jeph Loeb soooooo bad.
Posted by FadeToBlackBolt

Oh my God, I couldn't be happier with this news.  
 
I LOVE JENKINS. **** yeah!

Posted by JonesDeini
@FadeToBlackBolt
I'm glad to hear he's writing this and his goals sound like something right up my alley. I think I'll more likely Read his 5 issue Deadman mini though. I'm kind of Batmaned  out at the moment, folk. 
Posted by FadeToBlackBolt
@JonesDeini: This is the first time I've been genuinely excited about a comic book since the Return of Bruce Wayne, thanks so much for posting this. Gah, so awesome ^___^ 
Posted by The Mighty Monarch

I mean, yeah the first issue of B:TDK read A LOT like Hush, but it was done pretty well, I thought the writing was actually quite great. Even the second issue wasn't bad, but 3 and 4 went downhill fairly fast, but 5 wrapped things up at least competently. David Finch isn't 'bad' but he's not 'great.' He's at least a competent writer, and he can handle his story better than Tony Daniel, who can write good dialogue but needs a LOT of work on good story. (The man's artwork however is gorgeous and intense.) 
In the end this news doesn't really affect me because I have a decent opinion of Finch, and absolutely no opinion of Paul Jenkins. 
As for Finch's art, he can do some pretty damn fine artwork, and I like his ability to vary his style, at least on covers, but in B:TDK it just looked like a smoother version of Jim Lee's art, yet another thing making him look like a Jeph Loeb/Hush wannabe.

Posted by JonesDeini
@The Mighty Monarch said:
I mean, yeah the first issue of B:TDK read A LOT like Hush, but it was done pretty well, I thought the writing was actually quite great. Even the second issue wasn't bad, but 3 and 4 went downhill fairly fast, but 5 wrapped things up at least competently. David Finch isn't 'bad' but he's not 'great.' He's at least a competent writer, and he can handle his story better than Tony Daniel, who can write good dialogue but needs a LOT of work on good story. (The man's artwork however is gorgeous and intense.) In the end this news doesn't really affect me because I have a decent opinion of Finch, and absolutely no opinion of Paul Jenkins. As for Finch's art, he can do some pretty damn fine artwork, and I like his ability to vary his style, at least on covers, but in B:TDK it just looked like a smoother version of Jim Lee's art, yet another thing making him look like a Jeph Loeb/Hush wannabe.
LOL you recall my review for issue 1
Posted by CombatSpoon86

sounds cool, but id rather just do one bat book (snyder's run) and Batwoman and see how this run is b4 jumping aboard. 
Finch not writing Dark Knight anymore is a positive for this run

Posted by JonesDeini
@CombatSpoon86 said:
sounds cool, but id rather just do one bat book (snyder's run) and Batwoman and see how this run is b4 jumping aboard. Finch not writing Dark Knight anymore is a positive for this run
Snyder's Batman's a must read for me. I'm dropping Blue Beetle for Lemire's Frankenstein book and I'm likely not going to pick up Nightwing in Favor of Tomasi's Batman and Robin because he's more tested. But If I do decide to read Rucka's Punisher I just may drop that book off my list. I'm trying to condense my pull list so that I don't spend too much money. Mystery Men ends in September and The Red Wing Ends soon as well, so I can theoretically float two or so more titles but I'd rather not. With Rucka's book I KNOW what I'm getting. With B&R/Nightwing it's a wildcard, I may just chill on both books until I hear feedback from friends/trusted reviewers. 
Posted by CombatSpoon86

Yeah I know what your saying. I decided not to do Batgirl and Nightwing and just wait to here good reviews. Pretty much those slots were taken by Daredevil and now Punisher. 
I'm sticking to 6 books, Action Animal Man Batman Batwoman Justice League Dark Swamp Thing.

Posted by JonesDeini
@CombatSpoon86 said:
Yeah I know what your saying. I decided not to do Batgirl and Nightwing and just wait to here good reviews. Pretty much those slots were taken by Daredevil and now Punisher. I'm sticking to 6 books, Action Animal Man Batman Batwoman Justice League Dark Swamp Thing.
Animal Man, Batman, Swamp Thing, JLD, Stormwatch are all auto buys for me. Frankenstein, Batman and Robin,& Static Shock are strong maybes. Resurrection Man and Nightwing are based on reviews. 
Posted by CombatSpoon86

Are lists are pretty much similar. with the exception of like 1 or two titles.

Posted by shroudofsorrow
@The Mighty Monarch said:
I mean, yeah the first issue of B:TDK read A LOT like Hush, but it was done pretty well, I thought the writing was actually quite great. Even the second issue wasn't bad, but 3 and 4 went downhill fairly fast, but 5 wrapped things up at least competently. David Finch isn't 'bad' but he's not 'great.' He's at least a competent writer, and he can handle his story better than Tony Daniel, who can write good dialogue but needs a LOT of work on good story. (The man's artwork however is gorgeous and intense.) In the end this news doesn't really affect me because I have a decent opinion of Finch, and absolutely no opinion of Paul Jenkins. As for Finch's art, he can do some pretty damn fine artwork, and I like his ability to vary his style, at least on covers, but in B:TDK it just looked like a smoother version of Jim Lee's art, yet another thing making him look like a Jeph Loeb/Hush wannabe.
Wow.  My thoughts exactly. 
Posted by The Mighty Monarch
@JonesDeini said:
@CombatSpoon86 said:
sounds cool, but id rather just do one bat book (snyder's run) and Batwoman and see how this run is b4 jumping aboard. Finch not writing Dark Knight anymore is a positive for this run
Snyder's Batman's a must read for me. I'm dropping Blue Beetle for Lemire's Frankenstein book and I'm likely not going to pick up Nightwing in Favor of Tomasi's Batman and Robin because he's more tested. But If I do decide to read Rucka's Punisher I just may drop that book off my list. I'm trying to condense my pull list so that I don't spend too much money. Mystery Men ends in September and The Red Wing Ends soon as well, so I can theoretically float two or so more titles but I'd rather not. With Rucka's book I KNOW what I'm getting. With B&R/Nightwing it's a wildcard, I may just chill on both books until I hear feedback from friends/trusted reviewers. 
I'm feeling good about Nightwing since Higgins worked on Gates of Gotham, and I need to pick up Blue Beetle because it's drawn by Ig Guara and ever since Grodd of War I've LOVED his art, and haven't seen him on much. Rucka's Punisher is pretty good. It's not my favorite of the few Marvel titles I'm getting, but it's a solid book so far. 
But frankly, I'm likely going to try out all 52 series, so I'll let you know how they stand up to me.
Posted by TheGoldenOne
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Posted by JonesDeini
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
Posted by JonesDeini
@The Mighty Monarch:  
All 52? Goodluck with that I have kids to feed, son :P
Posted by The Mighty Monarch
@JonesDeini: Eh. It's only about $40 a week. And I get a 10% discount at my LCS, so more like $36.
However don't point out that I'm also buying a few Marvel and Image titles. I choose not to think about that or it'll make me sad.
Posted by Roldan
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Posted by The_Tree
@Roldan said:
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Who is this most famous?
Posted by RainEffect

What's with all the Finch hate? I really enjoyed Finch's run. He really got into the psyche of Bruce during those four issues. Not to mention it was nice for Bruce to finally feel an attraction to a supposedly normal woman (Dawn).

Posted by The_Tree
@RainEffect said:
What's with all the Finch hate? I really enjoyed Finch's run. He really got into the psyche of Bruce during those four issues. Not to mention it was nice for Bruce to finally feel an attraction to a supposedly normal woman (Dawn).
I really liked it too, if it would've been put out on a monthly basis, I would've loved it. 
I think that's one of the main reasons it gets a lot of hate.
Posted by Roldan
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Who is this most famous?
Frank Miller.
Posted by The_Tree
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Who is this most famous?
Frank Miller.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. I hate that guy. xP
Posted by Roldan
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Who is this most famous?
Frank Miller.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. I hate that guy. xP
He still did Batman Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. And they are consider the 2 best Batman books of all time.
Edited by The_Tree
@Roldan said:

@The_Tree said:

@Roldan said:

@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Who is this most famous?
Frank Miller.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. I hate that guy. xP
He still did Batman Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. And they are consider the 2 best Batman books of all time.
I know, they just aren't considered to be the best by me.  
Posted by JonesDeini
@Roldan said:
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Arguable, yes. But let us also remember that in all cases there are statistical outliers or exceptions to the rule. For every Frank Miller there are 100 or so Tony Daniels. 
Posted by The Mighty Monarch
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Who is this most famous?
Frank Miller.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. I hate that guy. xP
He still did Batman Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. And they are consider the 2 best Batman books of all time.
They considered 2 OF the best. They are not the 2 very best of all time unanimously.
Also the difference is his artwork to be absolute shit. It's the main reason I had to struggle to read TDKR. That book was fucking ugly.
Posted by Roldan
@The Mighty Monarch said:
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Who is this most famous?
Frank Miller.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. I hate that guy. xP
He still did Batman Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. And they are consider the 2 best Batman books of all time.
They considered 2 OF the best. They are not the 2 very best of all time unanimously. Also the difference is his artwork to be absolute shit. It's the main reason I had to struggle to read TDKR. That book was fucking ugly.
Well that seems to be more your opinion. The general consensuses is that those 2 are considered the 2 best and that's not only because they are 2 great books but because of the effect they had on the bat books and comics in general. I wouldn't agree since i like The Long Halloween and Arkham Asylum more but still. And we're not here to discuss how great those books really are all i said was the most famous bat writer started of as an artist.
Posted by The Mighty Monarch
@Roldan said:
@The Mighty Monarch said:
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Who is this most famous?
Frank Miller.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. I hate that guy. xP
He still did Batman Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. And they are consider the 2 best Batman books of all time.
They considered 2 OF the best. They are not the 2 very best of all time unanimously. Also the difference is his artwork to be absolute shit. It's the main reason I had to struggle to read TDKR. That book was fucking ugly.
Well that seems to be more your opinion. The general consensuses is that those 2 are considered the 2 best and that's not only because they are 2 great books but because of the effect they had on the bat books and comics in general. I wouldn't agree since i like The Long Halloween and Arkham Asylum more but still. And we're not here to discuss how great those books really are all i said was the most famous bat writer started of as an artist.
His art being shit is my opinion, yeah, but in my experience I still wouldn't say that it's general consensus that Year One and TDKR are considered the 2 best. Honestly I think your opinion is probably closer to the generally accepted 2 best.
But what I really think is that it's far too hard to come up with a widely enough accepted 'Best 2' or even 'Top 3' Batman comics. There's too many, with too different themes, and too many people with widely varying opinions. To say that any are 'The Absolute Best' is hard enough, but to say that the general opinion of 2 being the absolute best is even harder.
(Although I probably could personally consider Arkham Asylum to be 'The Best' overall. But at the same time it's not as easily understood as others like Long Halloween and Hush.)
And I know plenty of people who would say that Year One, while very important and influential, isn't exactly the greatest thing around when judged only on its own value.
I would say that perhaps Year One and TDKR are also possibly the most famous Batman comics, which did seem to be your point. But I still think that's a little debatable. I would say A Death in the Family is certainly in the same league, as is The Killing Joke.
Edited by JonesDeini
@The Mighty Monarch said:

@Roldan said:

@The Mighty Monarch said:
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Who is this most famous?
Frank Miller.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. I hate that guy. xP
He still did Batman Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. And they are consider the 2 best Batman books of all time.
They considered 2 OF the best. They are not the 2 very best of all time unanimously. Also the difference is his artwork to be absolute shit. It's the main reason I had to struggle to read TDKR. That book was fucking ugly.
Well that seems to be more your opinion. The general consensuses is that those 2 are considered the 2 best and that's not only because they are 2 great books but because of the effect they had on the bat books and comics in general. I wouldn't agree since i like The Long Halloween and Arkham Asylum more but still. And we're not here to discuss how great those books really are all i said was the most famous bat writer started of as an artist.
His art being shit is my opinion, yeah, but in my experience I still wouldn't say that it's general consensus that Year One and TDKR are considered the 2 best. Honestly I think your opinion is probably closer to the generally accepted 2 best. But what I really think is that it's far too hard to come up with a widely enough accepted 'Best 2' or even 'Top 3' Batman comics. There's too many, with too different themes, and too many people with widely varying opinions. To say that any are 'The Absolute Best' is hard enough, but to say that the general opinion of 2 being the absolute best is even harder. (Although I probably could personally consider Arkham Asylum to be 'The Best' overall. But at the same time it's not as easily understood as others like Long Halloween and Hush.) And I know plenty of people who would say that Year One, while very important and influential, isn't exactly the greatest thing around when judged only on its own value. I would say that perhaps Year One and TDKR are also possibly the most famous Batman comics, which did seem to be your point. But I still think that's a little debatable. I would say A Death in the Family is certainly in the same league, as is The Killing Joke.
Excellent points raised. And to bring up another point of Artists-Writers. Very few are consistently excellent at both. I can probably list them on one hand if that. Hickman comes to mind but he's only illustrated two books so that's not a fair track record to work off of. Miller would take my number one spot despite his recent insanity and crappy writing. I'm rather fond of his art work actually. But I can see why you don't dig it, especially in DKR. 
Edited by The Mighty Monarch
@JonesDeini said:

@The Mighty Monarch said:

@Roldan said:

@The Mighty Monarch said:
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@The_Tree said:
@Roldan said:
@JonesDeini said:
@TheGoldenOne said:
I'm glad Jenkins is taking over. Finch wasn't doing a great job writing Batman.
Very, very, very, very few artists are talented writers, folk. 
And yet still the most famous Bat writer started of as an artist
Who is this most famous?
Frank Miller.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew. I hate that guy. xP
He still did Batman Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. And they are consider the 2 best Batman books of all time.
They considered 2 OF the best. They are not the 2 very best of all time unanimously. Also the difference is his artwork to be absolute shit. It's the main reason I had to struggle to read TDKR. That book was fucking ugly.
Well that seems to be more your opinion. The general consensuses is that those 2 are considered the 2 best and that's not only because they are 2 great books but because of the effect they had on the bat books and comics in general. I wouldn't agree since i like The Long Halloween and Arkham Asylum more but still. And we're not here to discuss how great those books really are all i said was the most famous bat writer started of as an artist.
His art being shit is my opinion, yeah, but in my experience I still wouldn't say that it's general consensus that Year One and TDKR are considered the 2 best. Honestly I think your opinion is probably closer to the generally accepted 2 best. But what I really think is that it's far too hard to come up with a widely enough accepted 'Best 2' or even 'Top 3' Batman comics. There's too many, with too different themes, and too many people with widely varying opinions. To say that any are 'The Absolute Best' is hard enough, but to say that the general opinion of 2 being the absolute best is even harder. (Although I probably could personally consider Arkham Asylum to be 'The Best' overall. But at the same time it's not as easily understood as others like Long Halloween and Hush.) And I know plenty of people who would say that Year One, while very important and influential, isn't exactly the greatest thing around when judged only on its own value. I would say that perhaps Year One and TDKR are also possibly the most famous Batman comics, which did seem to be your point. But I still think that's a little debatable. I would say A Death in the Family is certainly in the same league, as is The Killing Joke.
Excellent points raised. And to bring up another point of Artists-Writers. Very few are consistently excellent at both. I can probably list them on one hand if that. Hickman comes to mind but he's only illustrated two books so that's not a fair track record to work off of. Miller would take my number one spot despite his recent insanity and crappy writing. I'm rather fond of his art work actually. But I can see why you don't dig it, especially in DKR. 
Actually I think the absolute crowning example of ability to achieve in both is Mike Mignola. Dear god can that man draw AND write. It's a shame he seems to be doing less of the former lately.
And Tsutomu Nihei. Holy fuck so much win. But he's a FAR GREATER case of Your Opinion May Vary than the rest, and readers of american comics will be less familiar with him as he mostly does manga, but he drew the one Wolverine comic I own and think is awesome, Wolverine: Snikt!
Posted by JonesDeini
@The Mighty Monarch:  
If I allow Manga that TOTALLY alters the field lol And yeah Mignola's an AMAZING artists. I haven't read Hellboy so I can't speak to the quality of his writing, but I hear it's a great book. 
Posted by The Mighty Monarch
@JonesDeini: As I said, I only mention Tsutomu Nihei here because he has indeed written and drawn one miniseries for Marvel. Otherwise, yeah, manga is a whole other thing here.