@deaditegonzo: Your biggest issue is clearly that you dont know what subjectivity is. Because you dont think Wonder Woman is portrayed equally doesnt mean she isn't. The fact you dont have a problem with how ANY other character is written in Batman's presence shows your bias. I know I have a bias, I admitted my opinion is based on perception, you still hold the delusion that your biased opinion is somehow fact.
I need to ask you, when did I say that I didn’t have a problem with the portrayal Batman/WW relationship? Go back and look. I never said anything any such thing. I clearly stated that their relationship was the superior way of handle trinity pairing.
Theres a big difference in what we are debating, because you still figured havent figured out that your opinion is just that. Just as an example, are you denying that she had better combat feats in the last two books than Superman? Are you denying that Superman was the one fawning over Wondy, and not the other way around? Or are you just trying to continue creating strawman version of my argument?
I only have the first issue digitally. The rest are physical copies. I’m been planning on doing a complete analyst when the arc is finished. I'm going to make a blog post of all my probelms with it. As well as when I have the scans to back them up my claims. You can choose to continue this debate then. Until then I'm going to hold off this part and focus on the BM/WW. Which, seem like what OP originally wanted to know. If you really care you can go through my old posts in my profile to see some accounts on the inequality that you may had missed.
We dont have one, so it is based on assumption, which is based on the historical evidence we do have. Supes has looked like a punk in all the team up books he's had with Batman. So did Green Lantern. So has Lex Luthor and Bizarro. Want me to keep going? My opinion is, if every other character has suffered with Batman, why would I want any more of my favorite characters put on the line by being paired with Batman? And dont argue something I didnt even say, respond to exactly what I am saying.
Or you can base an opinion on how there non-romantic relationship is shown. You based your argument using moments with every character that is not Wonder Woman. Correct? How can you possibly say that is a proper way of making a judgment call? Isn’t this point here in your argument based around ignorance? Their competitive feats are usually in her favor. (Like they should be.) I’ve posted earlier images showing how their interactions are shown. And how the differ from other characters involved with Batman. Actually, it’s harder to find moments of Batman having the upper hand, in both the confrontational and non confrontational moments.
This is all subjective as well. How can you expect anyone to debate what basically amounts to you saying "I am enjoying Batman Superman". Uh, ok, have fun reading it, I guess? for what its worth, I loved the first arc, the second arc with Mongul was just ok (it was sort of campy for my taste), and the last one was pretty good, except the Batforce was in full effect. So, cool we compared our notes on how good Superman/Batman is. Back on topic, out of three arcs, Superman has already been made a fool of once. Supes is one of my favorite characters, Wondy is another personal favorite, I dont like seeing Supes get jobbed, but I definitely dont want it to happen to Wonder Woman as well.
I could argue that everything is subjective. So we just have to agree to disagree. I didn’t even want to debate their interactions anyway. If wasn’t related to the original topic at hand. Actually, I’m going to discredit anything from the future, just so the thread doesn’t get more derailed.
I also think you've built up your own vision of what the DC universe is, and you dont realize that your version of DC isnt the canon one (case in point, you dont like the current Superman, and yet he is the version the actual world builders are using). In a debate with another human being, may I suggest mentally compartmentalizing your preferences from actual facts? Because in every statement, it seems that you have the idea that your version of the universe should be/ is the factual one, when in fact it is not. Arguing what you believe "SHOULD BE" is absolutely fine in my book, but make sure you present it as such, presenting it from an objective standpoint is intellectually dishonest.
Thanks for the advice. However, didn't you say and I quote; "Batman is a plot black hole, anyone with him is immediately sucked in. They stop having any characterization and become plot devices for him", earlier in this thread? Is this objective? Certainly doesn't sound like it. But, maybe I am wrong.
My whole point has been the negative impact Batman has on other characters. I dont know what you think you're debating. I believe Wondy will be horribly treated because every other character is. And I do think it is severe. Which is why ive said it before and i'll say it again: its perception. What in your mind is totally acceptable may not be to anyone else. You might think it was ok for Batman to for example, pull an armbar on Wonder Woman like BP did to Silver Surfer, but I wouldnt (its just an example).
I understand that. However, I don’t see how it is relevant to the matter at hand. You basing an argument on how one character will be treated, from the interactions of a completely different character. That like saying Batman’s encounters with green arrow is good indicator of how his relationship would be written with Black Canary. Should I base an opinion on how Batman and Batgirl’s relationship will be from how he interacts with Nightwing? Or maybe instead of that, I should base an opinion on how they interact with their previous actual encounters together? What kind of logic is that? It doesn’t relate to their relationship in the slightest. Those are not even valued points. That is called stereotyping. This is argument drench ignorance. Other heroes might get the short end of the stick with Batman. But, Wonder Woman rarely ever does, at all. You have to base your opinion on how their actual relationship is portrayed in the comics. Regardless of what it is. And if you know anything with them that is in the comics, you would see that your assumption is wrong.
EVERYONE IS BIASED! Everyone wants their favorite heroes to look cool. I dont look down on people who are Batman fans, even when they are fans of the honest to goodness BatGod. I do however look down on people with a false sense of enlightenment. The most enlightened thing a person can say they are just human, with human thoughts and opinions.
However it does seem like there is a connection between the two. I defended Batman and you insinuate and insulted my intelligence, saying that I don’t know any better because of my “Batfadom.” That’s does sound like you are A.) Looking down on me. And B.) Because of involvement with Batman.
Perhaps if you don’t want the unnecessary attention you shouldn’t go around calling people that defend Batman, Batfanboys.
You said I shouldn’t present my opinions as facts. However, what is considered a “false sense of enlightenment?” It seems to me that could mean very different things. As well with very different outcomes of opinions. It seems that you think that there is only one true way of thinking. That doesn’t sound like you fallow your own advice.
If you dont think im fit to have an opinion, then it's easy, dont reply. You sure seem concerned with everything I have to say for thinking im not fit to have an opinion.
I feel just same as you do. You present your opinions as facts, so I responded. It that simple and I will continue if there’s something I don’t agree with. Just as I’m sure you will.
A big problem with Batman is one that Neil Gaiman pointed out before me, I will let you do some research, its called: running the asylum. Have fun expanding your opinions.
I can’t find it. If you could provide a link, or maybe summaries that would be nice. Having said that, one man’s opinion does not define a character. However, it is interesting to hear other people interpretations on these characters. Every character can easily have their flaws pinpointed. Just look at the opinions of Superman and Aquama.. Doesn’t make it true, it doesn’t make not true.
Perhaps your next post should focus on the actual portrayal of their friendship, partnership or Romantic relationship. Until then, I don't see how your agrument has any merit to it.
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