jaywray

Do you have any evidence or anything to support that claim? Statement.. anything?

I didn't take it out lol OP did.
The only time I said Naruto would speed blitz is when he's in Sage (he can in Kyubi as well), i was just continuing our conversation by explaining how easily Naruto could buy time to go into Sage mode pretty easily.

You seem to have gotten what I said mixed up lol, I never accused you of any of that, I was simply using them as an example.

My point is, as you said link is able to take out 1 shot able clones, and that's fine, the only issue is he isn't going to insta-win against 3 of them at the same time, all of whom could easily have Rasengans, that's my issue, Link may be able to take out a shadow clone easy enough, but he isn't going to take 3 on at the same time with Rasengans and not get hit by one, and 1 Rasengan WILL finish Link.

"Sageis ridiculously funny because it's so obvious and nobody else thought to mention it (or at least put it in the thread). I was thinking the same thing, that, along with that depending on the setting, Naruto could could make things really hard on Link."

Haha, I can see why you wouldn't bring it up lol, but Sage is out of this, so it doesn't matter lol.

"Naruto wouldn't go Sage first thing, he'd rush Link down himself first and get a feel for how he fights; second he'd throw in a few clones, and third is when he'd start thinking."

Yeah, and the second part, the part with the clones, is where he dies, seriously, Naruto is reckless sure, but you cant think he's just going to run in and not think about the fact that Link is using a sword and be ready for that?

Naruto is perfectly capable of dodging link for a while and he'd be able to escape, it's only really Narutos clones that ever actually are really reckless since Part 2 really.
Ship Naruto himself is often quite cautious in fights when it's him fighting, he's not getting hit with link, he'll jump back, then the clones come out and Link is finished with a single Rasengan.

"he would "massacre" the only time I said that was when talking about Sage mode link.

" Kakashi would thrash one tail Naruto...so would Jiraiya, Asuma, Pein, and everybody else."

Are you really saying that as if it's a bad thing? they'd all mash Link like he wasn't even there as well.

You can't just say how it was shown doesn't count in part 1 because you don't like to think that it was impressive, we calculate feats based on on panel showing all the time.

I mean if you want a pretty solid Naruto feat for part one, it'd be surviving many Gaaras sand shuriken that were slicing clean through trees.
Again, this was in base.

Durability wise that's much more than Links arrows can do.
Hell part 2 Naruto could take large ground shattering attacks in base from Pain.

If Naruto is really desperate even in part one he could summon Gamabunta (that fricken huge frog) who'd simply crush Link. It'd be out of character though so we'll not use it, since he doesn't have to.

"How does Link stop multiple Kunai being thrown at him? Dodging would be the first thing I think of, but Link's spin attack is an area of technique that he can whip out very quickly, and so it Din's fire and Nayru's love which would just block everything."

Link doesn't have the speed to dodge so many thrown. Links spin attack doesn't have in-game mechanics, Naruto can attack from all angles, Links sword doesn't create a barrier or anything of the like for all over coverage.
The Hurricane spin in WW would be an excellent example of this.

To accurately debate this we'd need more specifics since Link has so much variation per game, some of links forms I wouldn't be surprised if there is a spin attack with all angle defense, but a lot don't, at least from what I've seen.

Continue this in a bit - (computer issues)

@lvenger:

Sweet. god. Damn. Jesus.

Can any of you Superman mega fans read. Any of you, please.

Show me where I said Goku was better than Superman, please.

Don't lecture me, on something, I didn't say.

I never said Goku was better, I said it was laughable Superman being the greatest Superhero of all time, I clearly have a different way to rate heroism than you Superman fans who get your standards directly from Superman yourselves, I've already said I think the few stories that Superman does get wrote in a manner than I appreciate I enjoy him a lot.

Another thing I've already said is that I don't want relatablity for the last time. I just want an interesting personality, and Clark sorely lacks that for me.

Again, Goku has flaws, yes, please say where I disagreed, I just find the one "He lets people fight at their strongest so he puts people in danger"

That's what makes Goku interesting, his childish innocent behavior rarely thinking ahead and planning, but it's always interesting when he shows a new side of himself (taking things really seriously and planning ahead etc instead of just going the normal way , which again, i my opinion Superman lacks.)

It's been an issue in Superman comics before where he was saving everyone and it became troublesome, no one would care or worry about anything because "Superman'll do it!"

So the idea of just helping everyone is a double edged sword.

I've read about 300 Superman centered comics I had a folder on my computer all for Superman, I did it to try and learn what id missed since I was sorta late into comic book reading (about 2 and a half year ago) and had a lot of history obviously revolves around Superman.

I don't dislike him I just think he is highly overrated. It's too be expected really, Goku is the same on anime sites. Ill probably actually start defending Superman a bit since

That ^

That's a pretty weak argument bro, it's a plot device, it'd be like someone saying Goku's weak because he can get killed by a "heart virus".

He doesn't, standard gear, eg what's in almost every game. Bow, sword, shield, boomerang, bombs.

If you're going to give him the beast stuff he gets late game then surely 9-tails should be allowed and he'd get blitzed in a random encounter, hell even Sage mode would blitz him.

In what?

Also, you make it out as if Superman doesn't take radiation like it's slightly dirty water all the time. Id like to know how severe the Kryptonite was, so id like to know the story please, scans would be nice.

Oh okay that's cool about the speech then.

I had a feeling Death of Superman would be brought up, I was actually going to mention it myself but I wasn't even sure if it was canon or because I thought it got retcon'd?

Oh woah, SUPERMAN. had an arm broken, woah, poor fella.

I never said they were heroes, I said they had conviction to win regardless of the situation.
You seem to not really respect actual Martial artists, that's fine, just pointing out it seems that way, and I highly doubt you'd think the same if you got hit by someone who wasn't even a pro fighter, just trained in it from time to time.

I'm sure there are exceptions where Superman has done EXACTLY what I'm talking about, probably on the dot, and id likely really enjoy it too, it's just too bad only 1 / 100 writers have the sense to make do anything actually inspiring.

I'm not at all inspired or moved or impressed by a guy who has no limits except for self imposed ones, beating people who are termites to him.
Then, every once in a while people like Darkseid come along to put him in his place, but Superman never really gets beat down regardless, he rarely ever has to actually grow as a character from a loss, or a beating, or persevering when everything looks bad for him or others, Superman just does it and it's done.

Although if death of Superman is canon then gg there's a good moment, that's all I asked for really, watching a kid burn ants isn't inspiring or interesting, watching someone push themselves passed their own limits is what makes something inspiring.

How.

@comicstooge said:

@jaywray said:

Can you think of a moment where you were amazed at Supermans conviction?

I actually can't be bothered with this because it's been many posts with many people and it's just taking a lot of time.

I'm not even getting my own point across well probably because I'm trying to get on to the next person.

I take back what I said about people being stupid saying he's the greatest of all time.

Clearly my criticism isn't shared by some.

I personally find him to be possibly the most boring 1 dimensional characters in history to become successful. (Again, aside from some truly amazing side stories)

But Id just like to know, can you think of a moment where Supermans conviction to do good, or to save someone, was of worth to be remembered?

What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and The American Way?, Ending Battle, Kingdom Come, The Emperor Joker storyline and this really impressed me, too:

I've truthfully only read Kingdom Come / Emperor Joker... Neither of them have anything at all coming to mind for me.

That picture you posted... really? That's what you'd class as good conviction? There are real life people who've taken 100x worse beatings and kept going that that.
Clark's a got a slightly bloody face and a ripped shirt... wow.

Just for the sake of it, fun fact. UFC fighter Rich Franklin broke his arm during a fight, he then proceeded to keep going and knock his opponent out.

Hell, even worse, look up Junior Dos Santos vs Cain velasquez and you'll see conviction to win on a scale that Superman couldn't dream of.

Maybe it's just me, but conviction plays a big role in what I class as a hero.

I never knew that actually, thank you.

Yeah man I know, but a lot of people have often used the idea that because Goku is a Saiyan that he wouldn't be effected by it.
That's why I said it works for sure :)