jaywray's forum posts

#1 Posted by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahhh thank you for the clarification, so he's faster than all the materialization processes.

I can gladly take that.

Yeah, which on panel took the one zeptosecond it also took for him to tune every radio on Earth, lol. Human Race Wally is the fastest thing ever.

I just don't like words basically losing meaning to extremes, if something is instant then it should be treated as such, but I can take the materialization process taking longer :)

#2 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@needlebay said:

@jaywray said:

Vash, While Deadpool may be impossible to kill, Manga Vash could shoot black holes with 1 square kilometre of mass intake.

So he'd win via Deadpool being basically sealed away for ever.

Do you have a link to this? Sounds cool.

It might be a bit hard to see it from this but it's the best I can do right now as I'm not at my own computer right now, I can't find the square kilometer statement right now though!

#3 Posted by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

Vash, While Deadpool may be impossible to kill, Manga Vash could shoot black holes with 1 square kilometre of mass intake.

So he'd win via Deadpool being basically sealed away for ever.

#4 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray said:

@alexman113:

We're getting a bit off topic, and once again, I agree, Flash wins.

Saying he was faster than instantiation movement is blatant WIS, unless Flash was reversing time that's fundamentally incorrect, or that species doesn't actually have true instantaneous movement.

If Flash was however turning back time there, then okay, I know that's within his powers to do so.

If Flash runs 500 trillion times the speed of light, he'd still be slower than true instant movement without time travel.

Ill happily concede if we're using Flash time travel though :)

That scan is from The Human Race story arc, where, at that moment, flash had taken the speed of every single being on Earth, both superbeings and normal people, AND the speed of an entire race of people made out of radio waves who are, by their own nature, incredibly fast. He basically covered the entire universe in a zeptosecond, which was faster than the Gamblers could materialized despite their distance covered being instant.

Basically, Flash was so fast that he was instantaneous, but didn't have the limit of having to materialize through his means like the Gamblers.

Ahhh thank you for the clarification, so he's faster than all the materialization processes.

I can gladly take that.

#5 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray: You put so much stock in the name, yet don't realize the reality of the even it self. Perhaps, I should just stick with the fact that The Flash is faster than Goku/ This is the bottom line. However, by prox, this makes him faster than IT. Why? Because Goku has to actually use it.

1)Take the scan above of Flash and Superman. Superman saying that his senses are speed up to match the flash in a causal setting and it's like the world has stopped. What does this imply for Goku/IT? That before Goku can think to use IT, Flash could have hit him millions of times.

2)Goku never moves place to Place with IT. He moves energy source to energy source. Which means he has to a)Think to use it b)find a source c)lock on d)telelport. Too slow

3) I have never said that Goku can't go God mode. Never. Much like SSJ1-SSJ4 it always takes time to actually do. But Even beyond that, goku has to actually make the decision that "Hey, this a tough fight, I better go God mode" and from there go though whatever time it takes for him to actually do this. Again, too slow. Flash could IMP him in the time it takes him to consider the gravity of the fight.

4)I haven't see the newest movie. And honestly, I want to just so I can be in the loop of these new debates. So if you have a link, please do send it.

Unless you are talking about old movies in which they are not canon.

Ah, there's where we were talking about 2 different things, I was purely saying IT travel speed is quicker, and yes Flash would be more than quick enough to catch base Goku and 1 hit KO him, I just don't think I've ever seen Flash do that at the start of a fight, or if he has it's been against street levelers.

He can infact move place to place now, much like in the Cell fight when he IT without any prep or thinking, just did it. Also God mode just like SSJ1-3 can be done almost instantly, it's a quick "RAAGH" and it's there.

Again, please read this. I've said it many times now Flash wins I haven't said other wise, once. I simply don't think it's in his character at all in the slightest to go all out from the very beginning, if that's the case then the instant the fight starts Goku would be in SSJG, which again, wouldn't make sense at all, you're having double standards here.

Ill have a look around for the SSJG Goku vs Bills fight, but they get taken down off Youtube all the time @neongamewave seems to have a few of them.

#6 Posted by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray said:

That's a nice durability feat though, but was it the for of a star or simply the gravity similar to what a star would produce? Don't get me wrong, both are nice feats it's just that the former is more impressive.

Again though cheers for the scans Killemall, Plutonian actually seems like a solid character!

No problem, happy to help :)

And Betty's power is gravity manipulation, Modeus in her body takes pills to increase her power, when fighting plutonian the gravity is distroting space.

Everything points to it being the latter, gravity of the star as opposed to entire power of the star.

After all what else would you expect from an extremely amped up gravity manipulator?

Well, after reading through all the scans, in my opinion, Bills wins but would be impressed with Plutonian, hell Uis would probably offer Plutonian the title of god of destruction for when Bills retires haha :)

But if Sun gravity levels can hurt him, Solar system busting is on another level is all. Still seems like a pretty awesome character.

#7 Posted by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray said:

@killemall:

Thanks for the clarification Killemall :)

No problem glad to help, although while i am very well versed with Plutonian i know little about Bills.

Looking at how his powers work, and the feats he's capable of, Id say the result of this fight depends entirely on the state of mind Plutonian is in, is that fair to say?

I dont think Plutonian state of mind has anything to do with it, he could potentially be omnipotent, "only if" he understood his power, point is he doesnt.

He has been beaten, my Modeus (in his GF's body), by Charybdis (one of his team mate) so its entire possible to beat him, he doesnt really have strength feats above Superman level being, he doesnt have reaction feats above Superman level being, he doesnt have skill feats about superman level being, what he however has is pretty awesome durability feat (i.e. not dying when Modeus was punching him with gravity of an entire star, to the point the gravity itself was warping reality around it), although to be fair Modeus loves him wanted to be his soul mate so i dont think killing him was ever in the agenda .

That being said if Bill has any claim to being a solar system buster or above Plutonian is outgunned, let alone Galaxy level that i have seen people claim.

Unless he has some examples of extreme combat speed Id say Bills wins if he doesn't play around and doesn't want Plutonian to reach full potential, but it's in his character to do so, it's a difficult one.

I can show you what his reaction feats are like, you make your own judement (he really doesnt have anything in terms of combat speed that should reasonably put him above Superman, apart from travel speed and essentially ability to go from 0 to light speed in no time for travel purpose).

You have seen the picosecond instance, here are others. I might have missed one or two minor reaction feats done for like 1 panel or so but apart from that, these are pretty much all his speed feats


Well to be honest not many on this board actually truly know too much about Bills since none have seen the movie, much less had a chance to actually sit down and examine it.

But from the long and detailed synopsis on Kazenshuu (http://www.kanzenshuu.com/movie/battle-of-gods/synopsis/ here it is in case you want to read it) we can basically confirm Bills is a Solar System buster, it's not statements from Bills himself, but from King Kai/Bills more powerful master Uis, 2 reliable sources IMO, there's another one going around where apparently Piccolo states the Galaxy will be wiped out, but I personally think that's just hopeful fans looking for some debate ammo.

It's difficult to say what his combat speed is from the clips I've seen, but according to a few who've actually seen the movie his combat speed is FTL, and his travel speed is certainly MFTL since his job is basically the same as Galactus (Id imagine on a smaller scale of course)

That's a nice durability feat though, but was it the for of a star or simply the gravity similar to what a star would produce? Don't get me wrong, both are nice feats it's just that the former is more impressive.

Judging from the scans that you provided the "picosecond" instance seems to be somewhat of an outliner in contrast to his other feats which id put him at very high Hypersonic speeds still, just that the Picosecond one seems a bit out of place amongst them lol.

I wont deny that he has FTL reaction speed, but it'd be like saying Kid Goku was FTL since he out raced Tiens Solar flare light attack haha.

Again though cheers for the scans Killemall, Plutonian actually seems like a solid character!


@slimj87d said:

It says something happened in a picosecond. It's either the signal would reach its destination in a picosecond or Plutonian had a battle that took place in a picosecond. Regardless, both results prove that he has picosecond or above reaction time. There no no other way to interpret this. It's that simple.

If you have a battle that took place in a picosecond, you're FTL.

If a signal left a device and it was going to reach its destination in a picosecond and the signal LEFT before you did and you reacted to it and matched its speed. You're FTL. It's that simple, there's nothing more complicated about it.


I never said he wasn't I just wanted clarification for the difference between FTL and MFTL.

As Killemall said though, Picosecond is a measure of time, not distance, so that feat is quite debatable.

Although as I said, seems like a clear outliner if it really was.

#8 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray said:

I realise it's psionic, but even in the scan that Killemall provided it says he

thinks

he's strong, so at least on some level he's only as strong as his mind lets him, imo the way to defeat a character like that is to totally out match him before he gets the chance to have positive thoughts on the fight.

Is Plutonian himself aware of the fact that if he thinks he's strong, he is? because if so that would also strengthen the idea that if you outclass him early on you'd make him mentally weak.

If he says to Bills he can become stronger or somehow Bills realises he has huge potential then it would be very in character for Bills to let him reach that.

If not Bills gets bored after the first couple of seconds and blows the planet away.

Some people said that his power is entirely psionic, some people said that his power is physically set, but I think somewhere in-between. He was mind-controlled and is out-cold once and he still retains his invulnerability, although I could argue that his subconscious control over

"giving himself" strength is weaker than when he was under full control. I'm not good at putting this into word, but this is my thought.

I get what you mean about it being difficult to put into words, I myself don't quite know enough about the character to straight up say it's one way or the other, so Ill wait for someone who knows him better to have their say :)

... *wink wink nudge nudge* @killemall

#9 Posted by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@alexman113: We're getting a bit off topic, and once again, I agree, Flash wins.

Saying he was faster than instantiation movement is blatant WIS, unless Flash was reversing time that's fundamentally incorrect, or that species doesn't actually have true instantaneous movement.

If Flash was however turning back time there, then okay, I know that's within his powers to do so.

If Flash runs 500 trillion times the speed of light, he'd still be slower than true instant movement without time travel.

Ill happily concede if we're using Flash time travel though :)

#10 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray said:

@killemall:

Thanks for the clarification Killemall :)

Looking at how his powers work, and the feats he's capable of, Id say the result of this fight depends entirely on the state of mind Plutonian is in, is that fair to say?

Unless he has some examples of extreme combat speed Id say Bills wins if he doesn't play around and doesn't want Plutonian to reach full potential, but it's in his character to do so, it's a difficult one.

It's psionic, but his power seems to work mostly subconsciously because he don't know how his power work. Because his power works subconsciously, he can still retains his invulnerability even when loosing conscious.

Just like John Bryne trying to explain Superman's strength is a form of tactile telekinesis, when he lift, he exert it physically but what's really happens is psionic.

I realise it's psionic, but even in the scan that Killemall provided it says he thinks he's strong, so at least on some level he's only as strong as his mind lets him, imo the way to defeat a character like that is to totally out match him before he gets the chance to have positive thoughts on the fight.

Is Plutonian himself aware of the fact that if he thinks he's strong, he is? because if so that would also strengthen the idea that if you outclass him early on you'd make him mentally weak.

If he says to Bills he can become stronger or somehow Bills realises he has huge potential then it would be very in character for Bills to let him reach that.

If not Bills gets bored after the first couple of seconds and blows the planet away.