jashro44's forum posts

#1 Posted by jashro44 (19906 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: we'll agree to disagree on the first point. Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from. If not than oh well. On your second point about Electra it isn't just that black panther got hit less but he got more hits in general. Lady bullseye was able to block, parry and dodge a few of elektras strikes. I don't feel like lady bullseye really did the same thing against black panther. All of black panthers hits landed. All though elektra got a mortal wound in that was because she was using weapons where as black panther was unarmed. I feel like he had a knife or something than one of the strikes he landed could have killed lady bullseye.

#2 Edited by jashro44 (19906 posts) - - Show Bio

Physicals: If it were just pre new 52 Slade I would say that they are roughly even. Slade may have an edge due to his healing factor. With both pre and new 52 feats in play deathstroke should have the edge though. Pre flashpoint Slade has some solid feats like getting cassandra cain to admit he's faster than her (someone who has dodged sniper bullets after they've been fired, dodged pistol gunfire effortlessly, etc), blitzing black canary, and moving as fast as he thinks. Black panther on the other hand has moved as a white streak and knocked 2 guys down by passing by them, surprised spider-man with his speed (Peter actually said black panther was faster than him, all though he wasn't necessarily focused on the fight at the time granted), out reacted wolverine, and has combated iron fist faster than human eyes can track while they were both underwater.IN terms of strength pre flashpoint Slade is even with black panther. Pre flashpoint Slade has scaled a building by digging his hands into it, kicked down a steel door, and in the new 52 he ripped a steel door when a plane was going 500 MPH IIRC. Black Panther wrestled a 5 ton rhino and snapped its vertebrate, he held open the jaws of a 20ft long alligator, and he decapitates robots regularly. Both have roughly comparable feats pre flashpoint but with new 52 feats allowed the Nth metal does increase Slades stats. So they go from being roughly on par with each other to Slade having the advantage. And than there is the healing factor to boot for deathstroke as well.

Skill: As mentioned black panther has the advantage. Its been said he has trained in every form of fighting more than once (and he has been confirmed to be a master of all forms of hand to hand fighting). However more importantly he has feats without his enhancements. He's beaten lady bullseye, he had a solid but inconclusive fight with Kraven, and he did beat white wolf without his enhancements.And all though I feel deathstrokes fighting skills are underrated he just hasn't been tested without his enhancements and we have been given some reason to doubt him. Theres the infamous batman fight where he narrowly beat batman, and remarked he probably would have lost without his enhancements, and than theres deathstroke the terminator #34 where he fought Morel. Morel isn't really well known but what happened was he beat deathstroke and said that even though Slade is faster and stronger, he is a grandmaster which is why he beat Slade.

I also feel he's shown more raw technical skills and he's used it more often than Slade does. He used pressure points on luke cage (one of the pressure points he did seemed to cause luke cages muscles to seize up from what I could tell), and he has used sleep inducing pressure points on white wolf. And in general I feel like we see him strike sensitive areas more often. Like in his fight with lady bullseye when they were both depowered we see him kick her in the throat, he's gone for the growing more than once against killmonger, and he also has beaten killmonger before during over the edge with a chop to the ears, and as mentioned he has hit sleep inducing pressure points on white wolf. Slade is highly skilled as he has made zatanna throw up by punching her liver, however I don't think he's shown the same level of knowledge as black panther and I don't think I've seen him strike sensitive areas as often as black panther.

In terms of track record they are pretty even though. Black panther had a stalemate with a bloodlusted iron fist, he beat lady bullseye pretty easily without his enhancements, he has gone toe to toe with captain america, stomped karnak, etc. Slade has beaten batman, defeated nightwing without much trouble on numerous occasions, and has mocked the sword fighting technique of Jean-Paul Valley (who probably does out stat Slade as well), etc. So I do think black panther has the edge but I don't think its as massive as everyone thinks. Yes Slade did say batman was a better fighter but he does need a degree of skill to beat batman, since Bruce out fights stronger and faster enemies all the time. So its still a good skill feat for Slade.

Gear: Again I'm going to give black panther the edge. Slades Nth metal is nice and all but the durability it offers is nigh useless here for a few reasons. The first reason is because it has been shown that through the use of proper technique, one can bypass its defence, and I think black panther is skilled enough to do so. All though even if he's not he has anti-metal claws. Anti-metal was used to destroy primary adamantium during the ultron unlimited saga and Nth metal does not have the feats of durability to stack up to adamantium. Thors best blow only dented adamantium. I don't see Nth metal allowing deathstroke to handle that kind of damage. And even if anti-metal claws don't work energy daggers were used to phase through a ultron copy during the ultron unlimited arc as well, to disrupt the electrons within. Black Panther can also do that if he has to. Anti-metal claws can also be used for destroying deathstrokes blade and disarming him.

The other advantage he has is the vibranium suit. Now all though its true that it can be cut by slashing along the grain, at the same time as I mentioned above, Slades armor isn't perfect either. And I remember during Hudlins run when killmonger and black panther fought, killmonger tried stabbing the suit only for his knife to break. And killmonger is strong enough to demolish an oak tree with a punch, and tackle and kill a elephant with his bear hands. Granted Slades sword is probably more durable than the blade killmonger used but even so the vibranium suit has withstood multiple hits from iron fist which were the equivalent of a freight train. So I think Slade needs to slash along the grain to cut the suit. As for Slades long range weapons they are also negated by the suit. T'challa has been tied down and shot with machine gun fire and didn't even flinch so bullets are useless. His blast staff all though powerful doesn't compare to iron mans repulsor blasts (which iron man did admit the vibranium suit can absorb), or hay makers from iron man which T'challa did tank, or a blast from star dust (I don't think T'challa tanked star dusts full power but the blast was strong enough to cause a crater).

Mind set: I'm going to say they are even. All though Slades mind is enhanced so he might have a slight edge. T'challa is highly tactical seeing as he has outsmarted kingpin and seemed to be in control of their battle of wits, and he almost took everything from kingpin, he beat iron man who had prep (they both had prep) on him but it wasn't through matching iron mans tech (IIRC he used some mister clean), and he beat a super skrull (that had the abilities of himself, moon knight, shang chi, bullseye, iron fist, wolverine, and luke cage), that he admitted he couldn't out fight, by determining it had "tells" and knowing when it would be invulnerable and when it wouldn't be. All though Slade is one of the most tactical minds in DC as well. There is the infamous identity crisis moment (yes there was some PIS with Wally, and Kyles powers randomly not working forcing him to throw a punch) but he still pretty much knew how to beat everyone there. And the thing is he never knew which members were going to come after him, meaning aside from the mines he set basically everything was thought up on the spot. He once took advantage of aquamans enhanced senses and blinded him, and then realized he couldn't win he blasted a building on him. There is also the time I remember Slade being blitzed by the flash, the cops showed up, Slade blasted the flash, and when flash was stunned he got up and ran, and Slade was there waiting for him and ended up tripping the flash. Now this isn't a quantifiable speed feat but it is a solid tactical feat. Identity crisis shows this to. What Slade tagging the flash shows is Slades ability to analyze patterns and basically predict them to his advantage. And in the new 52 he found a way to kill Koschei the unkillable.

I don't think either really have a problem with killing though. Black panther does avoid killing when he's with the avengers because there superheroes and he's a member, but he doesn't seem to have an issue with it. He recently just punched a hole through a cyborgs chest, he ripped out a skrulls eye, tore his arm nearly off, and broke its knee caps. So I think if it came down to it black panther would kill Slade.

Who wins: If this were pre new 52 Slade I'd give it to black panther. He can match Slades physicals (sans healing factor but thats not to big an issue) and is his better in terms of skill. If it were just new 52 Slade I'd still say black panther since new 52 Slade hasn't fought many established characters. However since its the composite version of deathstroke.......I lean slightly towards him. As I said above with Nth metal Slade should have the physical advantage which will come in handy and will probably compensate for black panthers greater skill. The gear is a major issue here for Slade though....But it is something he might be able to deal with. Anti-metal claws can disarm Slade pretty easily if they connect, but Slade has reach and all though the vibranium suit will provide protection as I said above the suit can be cut along the grain. And all though it will take Slade time to figure this out its not impossible. Slade is an amazing tactician and he does analyze his opponents abilities. He's going to be trying lots of different methods. And I don't think his promethium sword will cut the suit, I don't think it will break either given promethiums durability. However if Slade does get disarmed there is one other way he can win.....And that would be through the use of an arm bar or submission hold. With his greater strength this is something that is doable. Granted its not something Slade does often it is still an option for him.

TLDR; This would be a close fight and I can see a case being made either way. And I do like both characters (black panther a bit more so), but I give the composite deathstroke a 6/10 win over black panther due to greater physicals. If this were pre new 52 I would give black panther a 7/10 win or so, due to the fact he has greater gear and can match Slades stats and surpass him in martial arts skill. Slade never did fight someone who was both a top tier fighter and could match his physicals. If it were new 52 I would give black panther a 9/10 win since he hasn't fought any established martial artists to my knowledge. Its just with composite Slade, pre flashpoint deahtstroke, already has very impressive feats and we are enhancing those stats even further. T'challa will make him work very hard for it.

#3 Posted by jashro44 (19906 posts) - - Show Bio

Should Protocide be here? Feats for the man?

I have scans in this thread:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/protocide-vs-ultimate-captain-america-696504/

#4 Posted by jashro44 (19906 posts) - - Show Bio

Close fight since you gave drakon carbonadium knives but team two should still win with protocide being the weak link.

#5 Edited by jashro44 (19906 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@dimitridkatsis said:

@jashro44 didn't know that device is standard gear, but yeah it's not like it made the fight easier.

That was the only time I recall him using it so I wouldn't say it was standard. All though black panther was not expecting to fight iron fist so I wouldn't say he had prep either.

Was it one of those silent month issues? I think there was no dialogue so I assumed BP had a plan, if he improvised as the fight went i suppose the feat is better than I thought since he didn't want to really hurt IF.

Yea it was the silent month issue. With that said Black Panther had no way of knowing iron fist would come after him. Black dragon showed up randomly, restored Danny's chi to the way it was, and sent him after black panther:

#6 Posted by jashro44 (19906 posts) - - Show Bio

With the symbiote SpOck has a chance. When he had the symbiote recently he was really inconsistent IMO. Assuming not killing wolverine without his healing factor is PIS and going by the fact he hurt thor he can win here.

#7 Posted by jashro44 (19906 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Looks like she turned her head as the bullet is hitting the brick wall.

She doesn't need to turn her head to look at the tower, humans have up to 180 degree field of vision.

Alright but the point is it does seem like she did see the bullet. I was just saying to me it looks like she turned her head and saw it.

#8 Posted by jashro44 (19906 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 didn't know that device is standard gear, but yeah it's not like it made the fight easier.

That was the only time I recall him using it so I wouldn't say it was standard. All though black panther was not expecting to fight iron fist so I wouldn't say he had prep either.

#9 Posted by jashro44 (19906 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@jashro44: so, are you trying to say that BP is more skilled than Iron Fist?

Ok look it's just that when one opponent is on the offensive and the other one looks for an opening to use a gadget and take him down sure we're talking prep advantage for T'Challa but still it takes great skill to keep up with someone like Danny, I believe more than DS used in his fight with Batman.

He didn't exactly have prep. He wasn't expecting iron fist to come after him. He did use a sonic device on him but that was to avoid killing Danny. He still had to get the device in Danny's ear.

#10 Edited by jashro44 (19906 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@jashro44 said:

@nickzambuto said:

That doesn't explain how she could dodge a sniper round with no warning when the bullet travels faster than sound. The only explanation is that the sniper was using a real sh!tty rifle that fired below the sound barrier, which would mean the feat isn't really beyond standard peak human.

Just like snake and the rail gun....AmIright?

Batgirl on the other hand shouldn't have even known there was a sniper.

That's an assumption, she could've heard the sniper open windows, looked with peripheral vision, seen the bullet etc etc.

Looks like she turned her head as the bullet is hitting the brick wall.
She then heads to the building the sniper was in but he was gone.