36 Comments
Posted by JackKnight

Anyone?

Posted by The_Imperator

The Endless. Time Vortex doesn't have enough feats to quantify attacking the Endless.

Edited by Betatesthighlander1

The endless, because I hate every version of the Doctor besides the first and seventh.

seriously though, The Doctor has virtually no defense against the Mental attacks of Dream, Despair, Desire, or Delirium

Posted by JediXMan

The Endless stomp.

First, the Time Vortex is limited. It will kill the Doctor in a short amount of time - and it essentially did when he absorbed it.

Second, the Doctor is good and all, but he's not a threat to the Endless, whose powers extend far beyond anything the Doctor has experienced. Time itself is beneath Destiny.

Moderator
Edited by rolldestroyer

the endless

Posted by JackKnight

@the_imperator: Would that Archangel Quantem you mentond before would be more fair?

@betatesthighlander1: Why do you hate all the Doctors (except for 1st and 7th)?

@jedixman: Well the reason I made this thread was because I've heard that if the Doctor absorbed the Time Vortex he would become as powerful as say someone like the Living Tribunal but I never really believed that and this is coming from a big Dr who fan.

Any ways yea the Endless should win here.

Edited by JediXMan


@jedixman: Well the reason I made this thread was because I've heard that if the Doctor absorbed the Time Vortex he would become as powerful as say someone like the Living Tribunal but I never really believed that and this is coming from a big Dr who fan.

Any ways yea the Endless should win here.

The Doctor never did anything with the Time Vortex; that was Rose. She became the Bad Wolf, which allowed her to effortlessly defend against Daleks and wipe out entire fleets. She also retroactively spread the phrase "Bad Wolf" throughout time.

It's a decent feat, but nothing close to what the Endless are capable of.

Moderator
Posted by JackKnight

@jedixman: Yea I know Rose did it and not the Doctor and the feats that she did with the Time Vortex were ok but the Endless still takes this orthough I don't think it will be that big of a curbstomp.

Nabby the Doctor with the Quantum Archangel would be more fair

P.S. if you don't now what the hell The Quantum Archangel is talk to The_Imperator another big Dr who fan.

Edited by The_Imperator

@the_imperator: Would that Archangel Quantem you mentond before would be more fair?

@betatesthighlander1: Why do you hate all the Doctors (except for 1st and 7th)?

@jedixman: Well the reason I made this thread was because I've heard that if the Doctor absorbed the Time Vortex he would become as powerful as say someone like the Living Tribunal but I never really believed that and this is coming from a big Dr who fan.

Any ways yea the Endless should win here.

Quantum Archangel, and no, it doesn't have enough feats. In terms of vague generalities, it was the ability to control and manipulate all energy in the multiverse, and the being that did it before the Doctor had handwaved billions of universes into existence. So if it is taken at face value, it might be able to do it, but it lacks the feats to really debate about in terms other than vague generalities.

Yeah, the Vortex thing I am arguing in another thread, and it boils down to how literally you want to take quotes as opposed to shown feats.

Posted by JediXMan

@jedixman: Yea I know Rose did it and not the Doctor and the feats that she did with the Time Vortex were ok but the Endless still takes this orthough I don't think it will be that big of a curbstomp.

Nabby the Doctor with the Quantum Archangel would be more fair

P.S. if you don't now what the hell The Quantum Archangel is talk to The_Imperator another big Dr who fan.

It would be a curbstomp. The Endless are incredibly powerful. Any one of the Endless, except possibly Despair, Desire, and Delirium (who don't have a whole lot of combat feats, unless I'm remembering incorrectly), would stomp the Doctor.

Moderator
Posted by The_Imperator

@jedixman: Yeah, the Endless are ridiculous. Theoretically though, the Doctor could beat them if he had the Quantum Archangel abilities. But even then, not enough shown feats to argue well. Possibly with the Key to Time he could stalemate them, but even then.

Edited by JediXMan

@jedixman: Yeah, the Endless are ridiculous. Theoretically though, the Doctor could beat them if he had the Quantum Archangel abilities. But even then, not enough shown feats to argue well. Possibly with the Key to Time he could stalemate them, but even then.

Even then, what answer would he have for Death and Destiny?

Moderator
Posted by JackKnight

@the_imperator: I though you said that the Quantum Archangel was like on pare with someone like Lucifer Morningstar (who is more powerful then the Endless).

Edited by Betatesthighlander1

@jackknight: their all just a little to smug for me, and the constant use of technobabble makes it feel like they never earn anything that they manage.

for 2005 onwards debatably the fourth and fifth as well) I understand the appeal of a hero who has to get by without ever punching anyone in the face, but I don't get the enticemnt of a hero who never gets punched in the face

Posted by JackKnight

@the_imperator: I though you said that the Quantum Archangel was like on pare with someone like Lucifer Morningstar (who is more powerful then the Endless).

Edited by The_Imperator

@jackknight: Infinite energy manipulation is what it is supposed to have. On paper, it is Lucifer Level. However, it doesn't have the feats to back it up in a serious debate. So while yes it most probably is, it can't be debated unless everyone has knowledge of it since it doesn't have enough high end feats.

@jedixman: "Destiny can be changed" /stupid hero line :P more seriously, Death is irrelevant once you become one with all the universes energy and can manipulate it, though at most it would end up a stalemate, if not end up as him vs Destiny.

Posted by JediXMan

@jedixman: "Destiny can be changed" /stupid hero line :P more seriously, Death is irrelevant once you become one with all the universes energy and can manipulate it, though at most it would end up a stalemate, if not end up as him vs Destiny.

Not really. Death's purpose is to destroy the universe. And if memory serves, her domain is over more than one universe; it's over multiple realities. Same for all the Endless.

Moderator
Posted by ComicStooge

The Endless stomp him.

Posted by The_Imperator

@jedixman: Ah, good point, forgot that bit. Yeah, they win, though highest end Doctor could stalemate if he had to going by that, since he has the power to create alternate realities/universes, and thus post-pone the end :P /rules lawyering

Posted by ComicStooge

@jedixman: Ah, good point, forgot that bit. Yeah, they win, though highest end Doctor could stalemate if he had to going by that, since he has the power to create alternate realities/universes, and thus post-pone the end :P /rules lawyering

Isn't he basically BFRing himself?

Posted by The_Imperator

@comicstooge: Well, beyond the fact that my post was a joke just there (hence the smiley :P ), both beings are multiversal, so there really isn't a battlefield to remove from.

Posted by ComicStooge

@comicstooge: Well, beyond the fact that my post was a joke just there (hence the smiley :P ), both beings are multiversal, so there really isn't a battlefield to remove from.

Fair enough. Point taken.

Posted by PrinceAragorn1

@jedixman said:

Time itself is beneath Destiny.

Out of curiosity, where did you get that?

Posted by The_Imperator

@7th_circle_of_hellion: What does that video have to do with the Vortex? He's talking about things he's seen, and he speaks of universes ending, of universes beginning, and alien laws of physics. What does this have to do with him with the Vortex? Heck, that "destroy every thing then remake it," if you are referring to Big Bang/Pandorica Opens, was a horrible feat to use if you want to discuss killing the Endless. The Endless are concepts, they don't go away unless that concept cannot exist. Death still existed, Destiny still existed, Despair still existed, and the others all still existed.

Posted by Saren

Yes, I know. I was just pointing out that "concepts" with much better showings than the Endless have been taken out before. The endless are barely mentioned at DC. Dream ended up trapped and powerless thanks to a low level sorcerer, somehow it didn't feel right using that

Considering that Dream was trapped and powerless after having voluntarily depowered himself centuries ago, of course it didn't feel right using that

Moderator
Edited by The_Imperator

@the_imperator said:

@7th_circle_of_hellion: What does that video have to do with the Vortex? He's talking about things he's seen, and he speaks of universes ending, of universes beginning, and alien laws of physics. What does this have to do with him with the Vortex? Heck, that "destroy every thing then remake it," if you are referring to Big Bang/Pandorica Opens, was a horrible feat to use if you want to discuss killing the Endless. The Endless are concepts, they don't go away unless that concept cannot exist. Death still existed, Destiny still existed, Despair still existed, and the others all still existed.

"I watched as time ran out, moment by moment until nothing remained, no time no space, just me" The time vortex was responsible for that. He said "I walked in universes where the laws of physics were devised by a mad man" basically the doctor is describing the types of beings he's faced and odd's he's been up against. In the scene above, he was temporarily chocking a God, with only his soul. The Doctor has already defeated concepts, such as the Black guardian, who is the personification of entropy and fear . As well as the Crystal Guardian, the Personification of dream and fantasy. He has outsmarted Death. And this is without the aid of the time vortex. The endless don't have a feat that comes close to unmaking existence. Those guys didn't exist when Thano's ended them with a universal level weapon, no less (Infinity gems). Death even said he was above her. So that's not entirely true.

"

Lolwat? The Doctor was at the end of the universe (the three part story, end of S3), and time ran out.

Why are you comparing Death and Death? Marvel Death is not truly multiversal. DC Death is literally the being that shuts down the universe and turns the lights out at the end. The Doctor has lost to Death in canon almost every time. He chickened out and gave her the Master's mind as a kid, he ended up having to kill people for Death (IIRC) because he was trying to help the Master, and she orchestrated his death in the TV Movie. IMO, the Endless as concepts have a lot more power behind them than the Doctor does with the Vortex.

Posted by NeonGameWave

The Endless should win.

Posted by NeonGameWave

The Endless should win.

Edited by Betatesthighlander1

@7th_circle_of_hellion: Dream still had a significant portiojn of his power, its just that magic circles are the guy's natural enemy (this is brought up by that Immortal WItch in volume 9)

Edited by JackKnight

Anymore?

Posted by Betatesthighlander1

@jackknight: Endless should take this, unless the Doctor has some serious powers over souls