Iphaltuus

C'mon dude, this is Dragon Ball we're talking about! The only thing a defeated villian is good for is to get pinky smashed by the new badass, and that ended with Omega Shenron.

It seems to me that the Incredible Hulk started out as a metaphoric cautionary tale about how the great promise of a person could be foiled by their inability to overcome their personal problems, and that those problems could quickly spiral out of control, resulting in the destruction of lives (in both a physical and sentimental manner).

Ever since then, I get the feeling (haven't followed closely, mind you) that the once clear distinction between Banner as the hero and Hulk as the villain has underwent a great deal of blurring. I feel that this is a potentially dangerous message to impressionable readers as much of the Hulks rampaging is in justified by some horrible, inexplicably convenient set of circumstances.

I don't know when, or how all of this happened over time, but now-a-days I get the feeling that the big green guy is used more as a device to exploit the anger of comic fans who have and continue to undergo unjust social scrutiny.

In this light, it becomes apparent that the reader in question is more likely to construe the message that violence can be justified by highly subjective criteria. If a person is encouraged to believe that the appropriation of rage is in any way necessary or that it is a viable means to end what ever struggle they are undergoing, how likely will they be to continually drift towards such a lifestyle over time?

Although I would like to point out that this is not meant to be an outcry for radical change, I do feel that such exploitation is a blatant sign of irresponsibility on behalf of the writer(s) in question. But, before I go off on a diatribe pertaining to my personal views of what it means to be a good comic book writer, I shall promptly return to my point.

Does anyone out there feel that the Hulk (or for that matter any other character) has lost a great deal of their original creators intended message? If so, is there any hope for redemption?

@SanDiego, @pooty; Strong arguments as to the actual clash of willpower in each.

I'm no continuity buff, but I'm pretty sure Batman has lost it at some point.

Also, I used to own a crossover (involving both vs Jigsaw, Two-Face and the Joker) and I (vaguely) remember Batman's best efforts as having to physically prevent Castle.

Yeah, I kind of felt this was how it would turn out, which is understandable. I guess I was just curious to see if anyone was going to pull a "Comedian makes a joke and 'frisbees' his smiley face through Castles brain". {:~P

Here is a very interesting article, which, I believe gives ol' Bats the final edge on this one.

Setting- Alternate universe w/o any super powered buddies (especially Manhattan). Vietnam war; Frank Castle and Eddie Blake are the last remainig survivors of their platoon.

Their mission; to capture a pivotal village suspected of trafficking arms. After all the original bad guys are taken care of, Castle takes a moment to himself to finish writing a letter to his wife and kids.

Not long after his first paragraph is he interrupted by the screams of a local village girl as she tries to keep the Comedians' sexual advances at bay. Castle quickly rushes to her aid, tackling Blake and smashing through a thin wooden wall into a large armament cache room.

The mood is set, and only one of these two is ever going to set foot on American soil again...

Special note; The attempted rape was primarily fabricated as a plot device to initiate conflict, so if you MUST argue that Castle has added momentum because of his personal beliefs, please estimate that Blake is just as pissed that he was interrupted in the first place.

First off, I like the concept. But without getting to wordy;

Batman's method > Punisher's method.

In my opinion- The best chance we have at truly ridding the world of criminals is to understand the circumstances and psychology of their behavior so that we might separate it from the criminal, detect it and effectively counter it.

Punisher's practice isn't only an impractical, temporary solution, it's also subject to the effect of ultra-violence begetting itself (can't imagine how many mob kids might have otherwise had a better chance at a life that wasn't driven by revenge).

p.s.- In the real world the joker would not continuously escape, he would either be under surveillance of a team who respects his evil genius, an authority of equal or greater genius (isn't there some supreme celestial being who could physically divide him/her/itself in order to dedicate their time to such an endeavor?) or would be lobotomized and rendered incapable of such machinations.

But, since it might be too difficult, financially risky (for DC), or contrived to kill and replace such a (poetically) sentimental character, writers have to find new ways to spring him from the asylum.

These fights are seemingly endless. Both characters were created by mortal men, and that seems to be the final point. As we continue to understand physics, the flaws in each characters' abilities stand out further. For example; Superman could not rverse time through his velocity, as the fact that he has mass will continually keep him at sub-light speed, Einstein understood this well (before supes was even invented). And ironically, even though Einstein would agree that Dr. Manhattan could see into the future, he would ultimately be proven wrong by the Heisenburg uncertainty principle (1927), which shows that the future is in fact unpredidictable, specifically at an atomic level. What is even more ironic is that Heisenburg's uncertainty principle paved the way for the discovery of Quantum mechanics (a field which Einstein himself could not comprehend), which would allow humankind to understand the specifics of Superman's ability to generate power from solar radiation. In the end we find that each character was created by a person (or persons) whom -though imaginative they were- did not truly understand the fabrics which they used to weave such entertaining tales. Therefore, I respectively vote that during the conflict, Lex Luthor and Ozymandias team up with Max Planck and defeat them both!