Marvel vs. DC (no, it's not what you think... it's a blog)

I'm going to write a three part blog on the "Big 2" this upcoming week and this is obviously part 1.
Before we start, lets look at this Wednesdays (April 22) new release list.

MARVEL
Amazing Spider-Man #592
Amazing Spider-Man #592 Wolverine Cover
Astonishing X-Men #29
Avengers The Initiative #23
Daredevil #118
Daredevil #118 Wolverine Cover
Dark Avengers #1 3rd Print
Dark Avengers #3 2nd Print
Dark Reign Elektra #2
Deadpool #8 2nd Print
Fantastic Force #1
Ghost Rider #34
Ghost Rider #34 Wolverine Cover
Guardians of the Galaxy #13
Hulk #11 Art Adams Cover
Hulk #11 Bad Guys Cover
Hulk #11 Good Guys Cover
Hulk #11 Wolverine Cover
Immortal Iron Fist #25
Incredible Hercules #128
Incredible Hercules #128 Wolverine Cover
Kick-Ass #6
Marvels Eye of the Camera #5
Marvels Eye of the Camera #5 Black & White Cover
Mighty Avengers #24
New Avengers #52
New Avengers #52 Variant Cover
Secret Invasion Chronicles #2 (of 9)
Skrull Kill Krew #1
Thor #601
Thor #601 Djurdjevic Cover
Thunderbolts #128 3rd Print
Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk #1 3rd Print
Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk #2 3rd Print
Wolverine #71 2nd Print
Wolverine Anniversary
Wolverine First Class #14
Wolverine First Class #14 Wolverine Cover
Wolverine Origins #35
Wolverine Weapon X Files
X-Force #14
X-Men The Times and Life of Lucas Bishop #3

DC
Azrael Deaths Dark Knight #2
Battle for the Cowl Arkham #1
Detective Comics #853
Detective Comics #853 Variant Cover
Justice League of America #32
Outsiders #17
Sgt Rock the Lost Battalion #5
Supergirl #40
Trinity #47
War That Time Forgot #12

DC/VERTIGO
Hellblazer #254
Jack of Fables #33
Scalped #28

DC/WILDSTORM
Ex Machina #41
Wildcats Worlds End #10


Marvel: 25 NEW Books
              11 Variant Covers
                7 Reprints


DC/Vertigo/Wildstorm:  14 NEW Books
                                             1 Variant Cover
                                             0 Reprints

42 vs 15. Why does this matter? Simple. Many people across the country are losing their jobs, and others are holding onto their money and trying to cut back on the non-necessities. One industry that takes a beating during this recession is the comic book industry. Now, we didn't take as hard of a hit as we thought we would this past year, but we are definitely not doing as good as past years. People are weary with what they pick up now. I, myself, was reading 30-50 books a month, now I'm down to 15, just so I make sure I have enough to pay off the bills. Many people complained about DC getting rid of many of their ongoing books. These books had a strong fan base, but in my opinion, they didn't have strong enough numbers to ensure that DC made their money back from the printers, in order to pay off all the talent. In my opinion, it was a smart move. Yes, I was really sad to see books like Blue Beetle, Robin, and Nightwing go, I loved all of those books. But, to ensure DC's future as a company they needed to essentially "trim the fat".


So, lets go back to the numbers... 42 vs. 15. This is where Marvel proves to the American public, they essentially don't give a sh!t about you or your financial stability. They'll toss out any crap book onto the shelves hoping the passer-by Marvel Zombie will pick it up, especially since it has a variant cover of Wolverine. I understand some of these reprints (Wolv:OLM, Dark Avengers, and Deadpool). These are high selling books, and if the demand is still there, why not reprint? But, do we really need 4 variant covers for Rulk? Do we need 6 Wolverine variant covers? Do we need 4 new issues of books with "Wolverine" in the title? No. It is the responsibility of Marvel Comics to assess the financial situation of America, and to decide if putting out 25 new books each week is really worth it? Especially when a handful of those books are just plain bad. And lets not forget the $1 increase they've started on most of their new series.

I'm not saying boycott any of these great companies by no means. I'm not saying write angry letters. I'm saying be financially responsible. Don't encourage a company, who obviously isn't paying attention to what is going on in this country, to put out this many books. Think before you buy. Don't buy four Wolverine books just because you like him. Don't buy all of Battle for the Cowl's tie-ins because you like Batman. Buy what makes sense to you. Look who is writing and drawing the books. Do you like them? Do you like the current story? Do you like the character? If you answered yes to all three, go nuts. But lets not throw our hard earned money down on the table just because of some variant covers....


Later in the week:
Marvel vs. DC Part 2: Characters I can't relate to.

26 Comments
26 Comments
Posted by xerox_kitty

I agree with you completely.  In these days when everything is financially tighter, Marvel are slowly hiking up their prices and churning out more crap or variant covers.  Part of me understands that they have to produce more because they don't have Warners to back them up if anything goes wrong, but surely Marvel has received a hefty bonus from the Iron Man proceeds (and will soon again with Wolverine). So they're not exactly fighting off Bankruptcy any more... Long gone are the days of 'quality over quantity'.  


There was a time when I would have bought all the variant covers to the titles that I regularly bought.  Hell, there was a time when I tried to buy all the No Man's Land tie-ins, and ended up giving away some of the smaller/less relevant stories before the year was out.  Now I just seem to buy what I can get my hands on.  I just wish that Marvel would stop looking at their customers as fan-boys who are easily fleeced, instead of loyal customers.  Does the Messiah War Cable/X-Force cross-over really demand a variant to every issue?  Do the general public deserve a 'Wolverine Appreciation Month' to con them into buying non-Wolverine related titles after they've seen the film?
Moderator
Posted by MrMiracle77

I'm not too worried about losing Robin and Nightwing's books.  Remember, both of those characters are now much more central to the mainline Batman books.  The massive restructuring going on isn't just financial, its also to support the upcoming series of storylines.

Posted by inferiorego
MrMiracle77 said:
"I'm not too worried about losing Robin and Nightwing's books.  Remember, both of those characters are now much more central to the mainline Batman books.  The massive restructuring going on isn't just financial, its also to support the upcoming series of storylines."
Yes, it is to support BFTC, but at the same time, they were two of DCs lesser selling books, especially in the Gotham Department. Prior to the cut DC had these Gotham/Bat books, Detective, Batman, All Star Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, Batman/Superman, Batman Confidential and a few mini-series. Cutting out Robin, Nightwing, & BOP not only saves them a chunk of change, but it also does help support BFTC. I'm sure a Nightwing or Robin book will resurface after BFTC though.

xerox-kitty said:
"I agree with you completely.  In these days when everything is financially tighter, Marvel are slowly hiking up their prices and churning out more crap or variant covers.  Part of me understands that they have to produce more because they don't have Warners to back them up if anything goes wrong, but surely Marvel has received a hefty bonus from the Iron Man proceeds (and will soon again with Wolverine). So they're not exactly fighting off Bankruptcy any more... Long gone are the days of 'quality over quantity'.  

There was a time when I would have bought all the variant covers to the titles that I regularly bought.  Hell, there was a time when I tried to buy all the No Man's Land tie-ins, and ended up giving away some of the smaller/less relevant stories before the year was out.  Now I just seem to buy what I can get my hands on.  I just wish that Marvel would stop looking at their customers as fan-boys who are easily fleeced, instead of loyal customers.  Does the Messiah War Cable/X-Force cross-over really demand a variant to every issue?  Do the general public deserve a 'Wolverine Appreciation Month' to con them into buying non-Wolverine related titles after they've seen the film?
"

Variant covers are the new trading cards. Marvel has been pumping out some pretty good films at least. Iron Man seemed to be the only one that made them a good chunk of change though, and I too hope that changes with the Wolverine movie. DC knows that quality books sell, and Marvel doesn't seem to have a great grasp on that yet. However, I'm now treading into territory for part 2 of this blog. So, I'll cut myself off there.
Staff
Posted by Gloom

I don't see what's wrong with Marvel still offering lots of titles. It just gives you more choice for what you do want to buy, even if you don't buy as many comics as usual.

Edited by aztek_the_lost
Gloom said:
"I don't see what's wrong with Marvel still offering lots of titles. It just gives you more choice for what you do want to buy, even if you don't buy as many comics as usual. "
for me personally, I see the problem being them offering so many comics and with money as it is, they're offering a lot of comics you want to read, but can't because of finances...though that may not be the problem IE's referring to...

I think variant covers are a waste myself, as for reprints, well if they need a reprint, than those should be the titles they dedicate their efforts towards I guess
Moderator
Posted by inferiorego
aztek the lost said:
"Gloom said:
"I don't see what's wrong with Marvel still offering lots of titles. It just gives you more choice for what you do want to buy, even if you don't buy as many comics as usual. "
for me personally, I see the problem being them offering so many comics and with money as it is, they're offering a lot of comics you want to read, but can't because of finances...though that may not be the problem IE's referring to...I think variant covers are a waste myself, as for reprints, well if they need a reprint, than those should be the titles they dedicate their efforts towards I guess"
The problem with them is they're offering way too much and most is garbage. They should take notice from what DC did, drop their lower selling titles and focus on creating good stories right now so people don't feel jipped when they buy a new book.
Staff
Posted by aztek_the_lost
inferiorego said:
"aztek the lost said:
"Gloom said:
"I don't see what's wrong with Marvel still offering lots of titles. It just gives you more choice for what you do want to buy, even if you don't buy as many comics as usual. "
for me personally, I see the problem being them offering so many comics and with money as it is, they're offering a lot of comics you want to read, but can't because of finances...though that may not be the problem IE's referring to...I think variant covers are a waste myself, as for reprints, well if they need a reprint, than those should be the titles they dedicate their efforts towards I guess"
The problem with them is they're offering way too much and most is garbage. They should take notice from what DC did, drop their lower selling titles and focus on creating good stories right now so people don't feel jipped when they buy a new book. "
oh, ha! but you see, the problem there is...that the lower-selling titles are the good ones...I'd be much more willing to go get a Lords of Avalon comic or Scourge of the Gods, rather than Wolverine: First Class or Dark X-Men...
Moderator
Posted by TheDrifter

Dark X-men is gonna be awesome though

Posted by inferiorego
Gloom said:
"I don't see what's wrong with Marvel still offering lots of titles. It just gives you more choice for what you do want to buy, even if you don't buy as many comics as usual. "
Did you see what was wrong when they put all their money into trading cards during the mid-90s? I have a feeling they might head back towards bankruptcy if this continues.
Staff
Posted by inferiorego
TheDrifter said:
"Dark X-men is gonna be awesome though"
But why in the hell do we need another X-Title? Again, mid-90s happening all over again.... We have X-Men, Uncanny, those terrible first class books, X-Force, X-Factor, now Dark X-Men? You ever see the movie Seven? We're all about to die with our heads in the bowl of soup because our legs and arms are tied to the chairs. (If you haven't seen Seven... Gluttony.)
Staff
Posted by John Valentine
TheDrifter said:
"Dark X-men is gonna be awesome though"
No.
Posted by guuthulhu

I used to spend triple digits on books every month buying quicker than I could read them. I used to care about alternate covers. Things have certainly changed since then. Back then, I used to actually like a lot of the books I'd buy. Now, it seems there's a lot more crap to sift through and you're right.  Just because it involves your adored favorites doesn't necessarily mean it's going to hold up.  I have a hard time making the call when I follow artists as much as writers. If I loved one, the other didn't matter. Things are way different now and it almost feels like a chore visiting my LCS.

*sigh* I miss the days when I could wander in a shop, randomly grab something that catches my eye and not feel any guilt at all if it turned out horrible. Today the pangs are more real and that wasted money could have bought me lunch or something worth reading.

It's interesting to see how the two companies are dealing with it. We have one pulling in the reigns, and the other cutting lose. As long as I have something good to read, I'll be happy. I just hope the indy publishers weather out this storm, too. I already have too many unfinished treasures lining my bookshelves.


Posted by Nighthunter
inferiorego said:
"MrMiracle77 said:
"I'm not too worried about losing Robin and Nightwing's books.  Remember, both of those characters are now much more central to the mainline Batman books.  The massive restructuring going on isn't just financial, its also to support the upcoming series of storylines."
Yes, it is to support BFTC, but at the same time, they were two of DCs lesser selling books, especially in the Gotham Department. Prior to the cut DC had these Gotham/Bat books, Detective, Batman, All Star Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, Batman/Superman, Batman Confidential and a few mini-series. Cutting out Robin, Nightwing, & BOP not only saves them a chunk of change, but it also does help support BFTC. I'm sure a Nightwing or Robin book will resurface after BFTC though.


I don't know about Robin and BOP but Nightwing was selling relatively speaking quite well, before his cancel a friend showed me a chart saying that they were selling a little over 50,000 units, while the lesser selling books of DC like Jonah Hex that are selling 11,000 are still going without plans to stop that
Posted by inferiorego
guuthulhu said:
"I used to spend triple digits on books every month buying quicker than I could read them. I used to care about alternate covers. Things have certainly changed since then. Back then, I used to actually like a lot of the books I'd buy. Now, it seems there's a lot more crap to sift through and you're right.  Just because it involves your adored favorites doesn't necessarily mean it's going to hold up.  I have a hard time making the call when I follow artists as much as writers. If I loved one, the other didn't matter. Things are way different now and it almost feels like a chore visiting my LCS. *sigh* I miss the days when I could wander in a shop, randomly grab something that catches my eye and not feel any guilt at all if it turned out horrible. Today the pangs are more real and that wasted money could have bought me lunch or something worth reading.It's interesting to see how the two companies are dealing with it. We have one pulling in the reigns, and the other cutting lose. As long as I have something good to read, I'll be happy. I just hope the indy publishers weather out this storm, too. I already have too many unfinished treasures lining my bookshelves. "
There's a large split of people commenting on this, and I guarantee the difference in opinion is because of this. The people who have no problem with Marvel going "hog wild" are most likely under the age of 18. The people who see the problem are over the age of 18. When you have bills to pay, someone else to take care of, debt mounting up, and have to save money because you're not sure whether or not you're going to lose your job, you have to be picky when picking up your comics. Those who don't agree with me probably get a weekly allowance, or their parents pay for there books. Simple as that. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. When I was a preteen, my parents paid for my books, I couldn't work, and had no responsibilities other than taking in the trash.
Staff
Posted by MrMiracle77
Nighthunter said:
I don't know about Robin and BOP but Nightwing was selling relatively speaking quite well, before his cancel a friend showed me a chart saying that they were selling a little over 50,000 units, while the lesser selling books of DC like Jonah Hex that are selling 11,000 are still going without plans to stop that"

Right, but if Nightwing becomes the new Batman the portion of those 50,000 fans who weren't already buying Batman books will switch over.

BoP, I suspect, is just on hiatus while Babs is out looking for 'The Cure'.
Posted by John Valentine
MrMiracle77 said:
"Nighthunter said:
I don't know about Robin and BOP but Nightwing was selling relatively speaking quite well, before his cancel a friend showed me a chart saying that they were selling a little over 50,000 units, while the lesser selling books of DC like Jonah Hex that are selling 11,000 are still going without plans to stop that"
Right, but if Nightwing becomes the new Batman the portion of those 50,000 fans who weren't already buying Batman books will switch over.BoP, I suspect, is just on hiatus while Babs is out looking for 'The Cure'."
Maybe the majority of those fans preferred Dick as Nightwing, and no, BoP has definately been cancelled.
Posted by Nighthunter
MrMiracle77 said:
"Nighthunter said:
I don't know about Robin and BOP but Nightwing was selling relatively speaking quite well, before his cancel a friend showed me a chart saying that they were selling a little over 50,000 units, while the lesser selling books of DC like Jonah Hex that are selling 11,000 are still going without plans to stop that"
Right, but if Nightwing becomes the new Batman the portion of those 50,000 fans who weren't already buying Batman books will switch over.BoP, I suspect, is just on hiatus while Babs is out looking for 'The Cure'."
what I'm saying is that it wasn't because of sales that it was cancelled
Posted by inferiorego
Nighthunter said:
"MrMiracle77 said:
"Nighthunter said:
I don't know about Robin and BOP but Nightwing was selling relatively speaking quite well, before his cancel a friend showed me a chart saying that they were selling a little over 50,000 units, while the lesser selling books of DC like Jonah Hex that are selling 11,000 are still going without plans to stop that"
Right, but if Nightwing becomes the new Batman the portion of those 50,000 fans who weren't already buying Batman books will switch over.BoP, I suspect, is just on hiatus while Babs is out looking for 'The Cure'."
what I'm saying is that it wasn't because of sales that it was cancelled"
Jonah Hex sells more than 11k, not much more, but we're looking more towards 18k. They're keeping the book around mainly because the movie is coming out next year.
Staff
Posted by Nighthunter

Newsarama asked Didio and I don't remember who of them gave the numbers but they said 11k, it was a question regarding why Jonah Hex keeps going while Manhunter and Blue Beetle do not when they have almost the same sales numbers, according to me it's nopt about the movie (which I also thought it was and in some way must influate) but that they chose to keep the variety in their genres so they need a western and they say that Jonah Hex is an awesome western

Edited by Shatterstar

I feel bad for the 14 year old Wolverine fan that has to somehow come up with enough money to buy the 10 books he's in every month. I don't feel bad for anyone flushing money on variants, reprints if they already have the issue, or the Secret Invasion tie-ins.

There's a certain degree of personal choice involved here, people have got to pick their spots as a collector or be willing to sacrifice the dough for obsessively needing every variant, reprint, etc. Marvel has to push paper somehow. That they resort to variants to do it sucks but if collectors weren't buying them, I'd imagine they'd stop printing them.

Good work on linking to all those issues btw.

Moderator
Posted by Dane

Yeah I totally agree, Marvel puts out too much especially when they do major crossovers, which seems to be at a constant rate for them. We've pretty much gone from major event to major event without anything in between and they all seem to involve every book ever. My favourite marvel book is actually Marvel Adventures: Avengers. Yeah its literally targetted at kids but I get to see all my favourite avengers characters and the story is finished by the end, no one gets killed off for shock value and theres usually a guest star that doesnt crossover into their own book, its a sweet deal.

Posted by inferiorego
Shatterstar said:
"I feel bad for the 14 year old Wolverine fan that has to somehow come up with enough money to buy the 10 books he's in every month. I don't feel bad for anyone flushing money on variants, reprints if they already have the issue, or the Secret Invasion tie-ins. There's a certain degree of personal choice involved here, people have got to pick their spots as a collector or be willing to sacrifice the dough for obsessively needing every variant, reprint, etc. Marvel has to push paper somehow. That they resort to variants to do it sucks but if collectors weren't buying them, I'd imagine they'd stop printing them.Good work on linking to all those issues btw."
Yes, there's personal choice, but as a comic fan myself and avid collector, I can say without a doubt, we're obsessive and insane. We don't know when to stop, and Marvel takes advantage of that far too often, especially in tie-ins.
Thanks for the thanks on the links, I aim to please.

Dane said:
"Yeah I totally agree, Marvel puts out too much especially when they do major crossovers, which seems to be at a constant rate for them. We've pretty much gone from major event to major event without anything in between and they all seem to involve every book ever. My favourite marvel book is actually Marvel Adventures: Avengers. Yeah its literally targetted at kids but I get to see all my favourite avengers characters and the story is finished by the end, no one gets killed off for shock value and theres usually a guest star that doesnt crossover into their own book, its a sweet deal."
That's the one area I think Marvel does really well at, the younger readers. The Marvel Adventure books are great reads and don't instill that obsessiveness that the mainline stories do in the reader.

Staff
Posted by guuthulhu

I can't quit at anytime. *eye twitch*

Posted by inferiorego
guuthulhu said:
"I can't quit at anytime. *eye twitch*"
You can't quit, or you can quit?
Staff
Posted by guuthulhu

Exactly, lol. I would like to think I could quit anytime, but there's always something that comes along that latches onto to my purse viciously grabbing at the green and clawing for the plastic. *sigh*

Posted by CaptHowdy

Well, I dunno about that.  I say we all take out loans and then invest it all in Marvel comics... if we spend spend spend then we can help improve the economy.  Marvel is just doing the good American thing by creating more products to sell to help out the economy in this time of need.

It is up to us to spend as much money on Marvel's comics.  They've done their part.  heck if we use up our loans and cannot pay it back, we can always get a bail out.  Once we get that money we can spend it on the DC comics!

:)