Alright, this whole theme has really become super redundant, and ridiculously played out (yes I realize that in itself was quite redundant but some bloat is necessary to hammer this whole thought home). Fine, if you didn't like Tony's actions during Civil War, then you have you right to your opinion. Fine, if you don't like the style of his title now, you think he's a little bit too fascist, or too bureaucratic, then don't read it, and yes you our allowed to have a FAIR share of cynicism/criticism. But when you stubbornly and obstinately go out of your way to pick conflicts regarding Tony's true heroic nature, and/or label him a definitive villain, you are seriously nothing more than a moron.
I had this recent little conflict on gamefaqs regarding which superhero most definitively embodies the USA in terms of realism, not idealism. I went with Tony (of course [if you know me]). This guy hadn't really proclaimed anyone to my knowledge, but by inference he probably believes Cap (don't forget about the "NOT ideally" stipulation involved with that said). Anyway though, here's the conflict thus far:
Me (in reference to someone who first proposed Tony but didn't really give too much empirical reasoning): "Seriously though, I actually do agree with Tony. He really tries to constantly do what's morally right but his decisions within that vein are always skewed. We try our best to help a lot of governments, but we're never heralded as such. We either come off fascist, or overly complacent. Take into account the critical or even cynical nature of what a lot of people have exhibited regarding their reactions to Tony's actions within Civil War, and much of that is analogous to how the US is viewed by the world. He is probably the best example from my knowledge."
Him (though he didn't actually specifically make this out to me at that point which is I guess rather notable): "Tony lied's and tricks people to get his way and willing to use "Jackass moves" even when he not sure if his right.
Tony hires a bad guy to attack people to stop The Act then a few books later hires a bad guy to shoot a guy to help The Act."
Me: "So you believe that everything that America does is completely merited regarding moral value? If anything your reasoning behind why Tony should not represent our country serves the inverse ends logically.
And regarding his actions within the Civil War, Captain America was willing to hire villains too at one point. Regarding a villain assassinating someone, I don't have any knowledge of it, as to be honest I didn't follow Civil War as extensively as I probably should have, but if you're referring to Cap's death that definitely is a faulty statement in terms of definitive truthfulness, and otherwise I would think Tony would definitely have completely just cause (within his view) if he would carry out something that extreme."
Him: "When did Cap team up with villains? when did he pay a villain to attack people to help his goals? Tony nearly started a war with Namor just to help the Act by having GG shoot someone who came to help make peace, help create a jail on a other world to take away people rights and all the time hiding what he done wrong to the public.
Tony before CW didn't represents America and he doesn't after CW."
Me: "Cap was going to prospectively team-up with villains during The Punisher's CW Tie-Ins, but Frank killed them and stoically proclaimed: "No deals". You shouldn't really drag Namor's status in this at all; he's an anti-hero first of all, and while he does have some capacity for actions of heroic nature, he's more about his own ends much more of the time. Regarding "having the Green Goblin shoot someone", the Thunderbolts are a sanctioned team, under legislation coined by the US government, not one headed up and personally hired by Tony. That whole negative zone fiasco was actually directly contradicted within a few other titles, so for all intents and purposes that point about the negative zone was really unfounded and unmerited. I will say Tony has been a little bit excessively fascist and bureaucratic when it comes to his actions during CW and successively, but that's not out of power mongering, but out of staunchly believing in national security. Actually, within that regard he's better than America, as nowadays the government (conjecturally albeit but there's enough circumstantial evidence to merit some cynicism) has been violating civil liberties more for its own ends than anything. Anyway though, the fascist quality again does parallel with the US in its actions. To be frank though, I shouldn't waste my time arguing with you, as you're probably just a Cap fanboy who hates Tony to fit in with the crowd; it's pretty pathetic really."
He hasn't actually answered yet, but I'm willing to be that my posed conjecture is quite prudent in its validity... Anyway though, people who really cling to all those close-minded beliefs regarding Iron Man's true sense of morality, exhibition of heroism, etc, are just really ignorant, and should just stop bringing up CW, any point regarding Iron Man, or the SHRA altogether; it would be much more reflective if they actually abhor all those things that much.