icemanpure

@overlordarhas: @rozalia: @abocado:

Certain people couldn't even remotely try to see Rozalia and my point about there being a lot of PIS and Plot devices when it came to the Broly movies. And anytime anyone would try to defend Broly's side by making a point it was disregarded as being a fanboy, so they ran and got people to lock the thread (whilst calling everyone names) rather than try and understand our points.

@zr0c00l:

I understand that point, yes he ran around sucking people dry to get more power, but the OP stated he had Broly's DNA. Not that he had ABSORBED Broly.

Hell Cell absorbing Broly would be quite a feat, not only in that he'd have to beat Broly down but then have to suck his bigass body down his tail.

To be honest I agree with a point someone else made. Cell's character makeup was based on how he absorbed the android's to increase his form. He had several DNA's in him at from birth and they didn't make him any stronger, otherwise he could've beat people in his 1st form. He had to absorb the androids to advance power. Yea they gave him amazing abilities such as Namekian Regen and Frieza's attacks and Saiyan Zenkai, but he only ever gained substantial power by absorbing the androids that his design was based to do. Which also means he was only built to absorb the ones he did, otherwise he could've just absorbed 16 and gotten even stronger.

So having Broly's DNA would only give him some of Broly's abilities/attacks, not his power.

The only big thing I see him gaining from Broly is that awesome ass barrier, other than that he just gains what blasts Broly could do.

P.S. On a side note I have NO IDEA how he came back still in Perfect Form and 100% at that after Gohan made him spit up 18 and she still lived and never got reabsorbed..lmao

@overlordarhas: @rozalia:

I was astonished at how everyone who kept calling for an admin to come lock it were the ones that were being disrespectful and name calling people.

@xlab3000:

The barriers you give examples of (Gohan and Vegeta) were ones where they had to stand and hold their arms out and concentrate to hold it. And those barriers exhausted the user and Gohan's didn't even hold up. Gohan being fresh to the fight and at full power. Not to mention the hit that Gohan took was the same exact freaking blast that Trunks supposed "barrier" stopped, and Gohan's didn't stop the one he was shielding. How is that NOT PIS?!?!?!?! Not only is that NOT a barrier (for obvious reasons) that Trunks throws, but he is normal form and completely exhausted and throws out the tiniest of Ki balls which stops multiple shots of Broly's? To say this is anything BUT a Plot Device is beyond idiotic.

Not to mention that part has nothing to do with whether Broly can beat Vegeta. What does matter is how strong the 3 people were that shot the Kamehameha at him that hit him. Taking a blast from 2 SSJ2's and a SSJ that are all combined into one giant blast is what WOULD matter. (Funny how this beats Broly but nearly every other villain, except Cell, has to die by Spirit Bombs using the combined energy of a crazy amount of people)

So that brings up another argument people made about them NOT being SSJ2. Well @rozalia brought up a very good point, why wouldn't they be SSJ2 if they knew how? If I had to beat someone up who was stronger than me I'm pretty sure I'd be as strong as I could possibly make myself in order to give me the best chance to win. Another portion in the movies that was crappy writing along with the Trunks "BARRIER".

So then now Gohan was weak in that movie since Vegeta said he was in the show? Vegeta and Goku both stated how Gohan's lack of practice had led him to lose his fighting sense. This doesn't mean he lost an INCREDIBLE amount of POWER. When Gohan went SSJ2 to fight Cell he had just spent YEARS training with his dad in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, mastering his fighting prowess. He lost this due to him focusing on school and not training. Yet a counterside to this is how much STRONGER Goku had become from spending so much time training in Other World. The guy showed us he had learned SSJ3 around this time, so just imagine how much his base had increased. So here is Goku, someone who is equal to strength as Majin Vegeta, and he couldn't beat Broly without Gohan, Goten, and a random distraction by Trunks.

Not to mention some of you are acting like as if Broly and Vegeta are gonna fight half cocked and injured.

Broly fresh and fully healed vs Majin Vegeta fresh and fully healed. One on one, no writers to make random story holes and plots. Broly would win.

@dark_cloud_:

To be fair @rozalia: has posted better arguments than most other people in this thread.

And there is no "Actual proof" of Vegeta winning. Actual proof would be if they already happened to make a movie just for this and Vegeta won it, but there isn't one.

Things people have said that would lead one to BELIEVE Vegeta would win haven't been very solid. What does Vegeta have that would beat Broly? They are both Saiyan heritage. They've both fought since they were born and know how to fight. They're both vicious arrogant people. Majin form about = SSJ2 form so he's only twice as strong as SSJ, the form in which he got dominated in (give a little due to his increase in base due to training). Gohan could transform in the First Movie so both he and his father, Goku, had gotten MSSJ forms, in which they along with the others got dominated in.

I guess this would be the most logical answer FOR Broly.

Goku in the First movie was MSSJ. He fought Cell at MSSJ and stalemated with Cell. He then made Gohan, who was also MSSJ, fight Cell. Cell had the advantage only due to Gohan not wanting to fight really, so they were for the most part even in PL as well. Gohan had to break over into SSJ2 to defeat Cell. He then manhandled Cell who is around the PL of a MSSJ, BUT still took quite a bit of damage from some of Cell's attacks as well. Broly devastated not only 1, but 2 MSSJ alongside 2 Ascended SSJ and a Super Namek all within the same fight without any rest while taking next to ZERO DAMAGE without using his barrier. This alone during the First Movie would put him at a PL a bit above the PL of Gohan SSJ2 vs Cell.

This alongside the awesomeness that is his LSSJ unique Bubble Barrier would give him plenty of edge to beat Vegeta.

This isn't the world of Dragonball Manga or Anime or Movies where the Villain HAS to and WILL lose. Broly isn't NOT going to use his shield against Vegeta, and Vegeta has no random PIS or Plot Device in order to put Broly down like they use in the Manga/Anime/Movies when it comes time for the show to end and the Villain to lose.

And just to squash the NON-CANON Super Kaio-ken.

SSJ is 50 time the base

SSJ2 is 2 times SSJ, or 100 times the base

SSJ3 is 4 times SSJ2, or 400 times the base

So, for example, if a base PL is equal to 1,000,000. And you proceeded to transform to each level it would play out as follows.
SSJ = 50 x 1,000,000 = 50,000,000

SSJ2 = 2 x 50,000,000 = 100,000,000

SSJ3 = 4 x 100,000,000 = 400,000,000

Kaio-ken is a unique technique that multiplies the users power at the users will. So even though this was used non-canon it would let Goku multiply SSJ by up to 20 times. Far more than just going SSJ2 or SSJ3 would increase his power.

SSJ2 = 2 x SSJ

SSJ3 = 8 x SSJ

Super Kaio-ken = (Theoretically) 20 x SSJ

And like a couple of us lately have posted. There is no LEGITIMATE way to calculate how strong Broly REALLY should be because his character was DESTINED TO LOSE from the moment he was created.

They could've had Krillin beat him with a spoon if they wanted. The whole point behind DBZ is good prevailing over evil, so any villain is automatically on the proverbial shit list.

That seems a bit ridiculous. Goku was fighting Cell to pretty much a standstill. So to say that Gohan going SSJ2 made him ONE HUNDRED TIMES stronger than Goku would pretty much mean that Gohan could've thumped Cell and obliterated him. Twice as strong seems more reasonable since he was able to manhandle Cell and play with him and still had enough Juice to kill him when he came back after regenerating.

If he were 100x stronger he wouldn't of struggled so much with Cell after he got back, and would've smacked Cell's shot at Vegeta away like a beach ball.

For instance, if Goku were at (this is a random number) 300 mil PL, that would put Cell somewhere around the same ballpark since they were both evenly matched. If Gohan were 100 TIMES that then that would make him at a PL of 30 Billion?! You're telling me that he still had an issue with Cell ,after he came back, with 100x Goku's power?

@partialsanity: This was exactly my point in my post. 100% agree.

@overlordarhas

Thanks, I'm really enjoying reading and learning from a lot of the threads on here.

And I could also go on and on about how many loopholes are in the writing for the movies but a lot of people have covered those bases.

One of the main ones I see people arguing about is whether or not Gohan and Goku are SSJ2 during the beam.

Regardless one way or the other, as a viewer and a fan and someone with Common Sense you would think that Gohan and Goku* who know how to go SSJ2 WOULD if it were the fate of Earth at stake.

*Goku SSJ2 - Some would debate that he wouldn't have this technique at the time of the movie (another issue I have with the movies, WHERE IN THE HELL DO THEY ALL FIT IN THE TIMELINE OF THE ANIME, some make no sense in that regard). In my opinion Goku has been working on the newest form, SSJ3 which he reveals after having to fight Buu finally. So there is no doubt in my mind that he would clearly have MASTERED SSJ2 when he had started to ascend to SSJ3 while training in Otherworld in the anime.

Honestly the movies irritate me in regards to fitting within the time of the anime. I know they're non-canon but they are based from the anime. So when things don't tie up decently it burns me.