i_like_swords's forum posts

#1 Posted by i_like_swords (13028 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai:

I just can't honestly take it seriously anymore because the majority of SW fans have already built up walls of what they consider "true" with the belief that PT/GE Era Jedi/Sith >>>> Everything else. So it makes any kind of debate utterly pointless when one side or both refuse to move an inch away from their respective beliefs.

Well, I assess characters on their individudal capabilities, not what era they're from. If people judge characters solely by their era, they're just being silly, to be honest. It seems like you debate with the wrong people. Although I will admit, the majority of Star Wars debaters (or alternate accounts, since there are obvious trolls lurking around), are complete trash in terms of debating ability...

And anytime myself or others take the SW figures outside of their own little universe to face something unfamiliar, the majority of the SW fanbase either outright ignores it or leaves some flaming "Jedi/Sith mindtrick win" remark and then flees the scene.

Again, you can only really debunk those arguments and move on. There have been some very in-depth discussions about Luke and Sidious vs Superman type characters, as well as my threads like Darth Maul vs Spider-Man, so they aren't all bad. But yeah, I see where you're coming from.

I can't comment on anything pertaining to Revan, haha. I don't know enough about him.

#2 Posted by i_like_swords (13028 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate to think this whole tourney boils down to spamming plants that beat up kryptonians :/

..yeah.. although there seems to be some missing context behind that, and some of these feats in general. I'll explore it somewhat, although I have a feeling I may have stepped into a mismatch due to poor pricing/character listing.

@darkraiden: Here's my counter, I guess.

1. Pretty much no one's getting past the plants. I mean some of Ivy's plants are that weak, but most are much, much stronger. For instance:

Just the scale of some of her plants, holding down Superboy and krypto, overtaking a building, etc. all in seconds nonetheless in an hour.

The first two scans show a decent span of control. Not miles long, but good nonetheless. Your next scans of Ivy holding Superboy and Krypto appear to sorely lacking context. For one, Superboy says to what appears to be a normal guy "I'm about as strong as you now" - so Superboy's powers were on the flux there. I don't know if that's because of his tactile telekinesis or what. I can't explain Krypto being restrained, but I'm not ruling out the possibility that it was because of a similar reason to Superboy, and I also don't know his strength feats other than that he's a kryptonian dog. Also, on the next page Ivy makes it clear that she isn't actually controlling the plants. "It's already happening." "I'm too late."

Basically what I'm saying is - I cannot take this feat without a massive heap of salt until you provide me with some actual context.

The last scan is also impressive. I'll properly counter the argument against the plants as I go on, and will do a summary of that argument at some point. Although.. I don't see this debate going very far given the range of Ivy's abilities and the sheer map advantage you've been given.....

Building busting plants, plants disarming people (like they can do to your team) and even blocking fire. Oh and holding Robin in precarious positions.

Animal avatars (no other showings), tentacles and stuff she can do if you get close, her making and controlling plants from a city away, and communicating with the green/plants to find the location of Harley.

I question if she can conjure up the same level of building busting plants here. There should be significantly less soil on this map, given that it's all metal and presumably only has soil scattered around (which raises the question, how are these plants even fertile to begin with?). Not to mention.. she seemed to be require to become exceptionally angry to perform such a feat, given how she was going crazy at Batman.

Disarming people is nice, I'll get on to this later. I'm just clearing up some stuff first.

Animal avatars seem pretty useless, since they have no real proven capabilities.

She was only controlling very small scale plants from a city away. Basically flowers. Nothing combat relevant. It would allow her to detect opponents, which is useful, but it seems like Ivy needs to be within visible range of opponents, and fuly concentrating on them, in order to use her plants to attack them. This means that my team are safe from her plants up until they get within range of her. At which point I'll make the argument that they can take her out (like Batman did.. which a grapple line around her wrists, in your own scan. Lol).

Some counters to regen, acid that messes up Black Lanterns, manipulating the fauna in GL's digestive track, and her toxins can pretty much turn you into goop.

So yeah, the plants really do this for me tbh. But let's continue.

Except that she has no knowledge of my teams regenerative capabilities, like she had with the Black Lantern, therefore she wouldn't know to use it on my teammates. Plus, based on what I can tell, there was no fight. She prepped for the Black Lantern. She won't have the prior knowledge required to pull off that kind of prep on my team. And even if you did argue that she would create one of those plants, you'd be arguing that she'd be focusing on manipulating that one plant and her other plants i conjunction with it, for the sole purpose of getting my team members in there, freeing up space for someone like Ninjak to drop a shuriken in her brain, or Bloodshot to shoot her, loose off a sonic screech or a synaptic burst (shutting her brain down).

Basically my point in general is that Ivy is too physically susceptible to my team members, and has to hide behind her plants in order to do well here. She constricts Bloodshot? Fine - she eats a couple of these.

She had to be basically right next to her opponents in those scans in order to affect them. That isn't really somewhere she wants to be with any of my team members, given Strode could rip her apart, Ninjak would dice her, and Bloodshot could shoot her, blow her up or shut her brain down.

It almost seems like the plants do it for you, but once I get a gist of their actual capabilities, I'll set about properly forming a full-scale argument and plan. Right now I'm more just testing the waters..

2. Plants of course detect you, as do Miles and BP with Spider-sense and infrared senses.

3. Surviving shuriken to the head, Batwing is bullet proof, BP has vibranium armor, Ivy will block it, Miles will dodge it and sense it with spidey sense, Cassy will just dodge it. You want agility feats? i got those. Let me know.

So we can all detect each other. Fair enough.

Black Panther doesn't currently have vibranium armor, IIRC. Batwing, fair enough, Ivy.. maybe but if she's concentrating on another plant (which seems to be where your plan is heading - Ivy using her plants combatively), then Ninjak can catch her off-guard. Miles would probably sense it, I agree. I'm aware of Cassy's bullet timing feats, but if Ninjak is cloaked and sticking to a wall somewhere up high, Cassy won't see the shuriken coming. It could end up in her brain. If there's no feasible counter for her detecting and avoiding Ninjak while cloaked, then she's as good as dead IMO.

1. Destroying Plants? I countered that with how durable they are and they've even tanked fire. Plus if you did, she'd just make new ones faster than you could destroy them.

2. Multi-ton strength getting through webbing? Nah. It's based off of Spider-Man's webbing which has held 100+ tonners (I have feats). Also the point of it is that once you step on it, he charges it with venom sting, which is an auto-KO for you.

3. Cassy being useless? I heavily disagree. For one, can just get by when you're focusing on the plant barrage. Also just fighting ability? I don't think you realize how good she is.

4. That sonic doesn't overload electronics from the looks of it. It overloads audio transmitters and whatnot of what looks to be a robot. If you can show it shutting down something electronic like...a digital watch or some lights even I'd believe it. Seems like the robot just got messed up the same way that human did, his ears (and systems) hurt and shut down. Pretty sure Fett's own helmet is electronic and that wasn't messed up so....

5. Don't see Bloodshot getting close to Batwing. If he does, taser should do its job. Batwing will be dropping bombs, flashing grenade rays, shooting blasters etc. and staying in the air. Add in Black Panther and the plants and Cassy, and Bloodshot's gonna be too overwhelmed.

1. You didn't show their resistance to cutting damage. Ninjak has plenty of bladed weapons, Bloodshot has combat knives, and Luther's karate chops are as good as any knife, being able to shred straight through a human body like butter.

2. It needs to solidify to hold 100 tonners IIRC, but even then Luther can just use his move reading to dodge it, and is a casual bullet timer anyway. Webbing isn't as fast as bullets, so this shouldn't be an issue.

3. Who is she getting by exactly? The two Fetts who will sense her coming a mile away? Who are packing highly powerful blaster rifles/snipers, numerous wrist/missile rockets, thermal detonators, flamethrowers, wrist lasers and more? All of which can be voice activated, and is controlled by a weapons targeting system? They also hae jetpacks, so they can rain down on her from the skies and there isn't much she can do about it, given their Jedi-killing accuracy (beings who are faster than Cassy on top of having battle precog, due to their ability to deflect blaster bolts and innate superhuman speed). Eternal Warrior who is sitting on the flag, waiting for whoever was lucky enough to get by the Fett's bloodied and battered? (Or dead. Dead is more likely).

She's a great martial artist, and she's fast, but she's outnumbered and outgunned. She would get blown to bits trying to get into my flag area.

4. ...

Did you read the scans I posted? The droid, Proxy, was running a simulation where he takes the form of Jango Fett. Once the sonic detonator went off, not only did it deactivate the simulation, returning Proxy to his droid appearance, it also shut down all of his systems. Proxy says it himself. "All my systems are shutting down".

Fett's own helmet wasn't shut down because it's evidently resistant to such attacks. You don't really have a case for the sonic emitter doing anything other than what it says on the tin - shuts down electronic systems. Which is what the majority of Batwing's gear is made from. Bye flight, bye weapons, bye sensors and whatever else he is packing.

5. I was more arguing if he did get close, what would happen. Being able to fly is useful for Batwing.

I think once we work out the kinks in this debate, we can focus on how this would actually go down. As it's going right now, it seems like our attacking characters are going to end up meeting in the middle. Bloodshot, Luther and Ninjak vs Batwing, Black Panther and Cassandra. Bloodshot would likely go after Batwing, trying to shoot him out of the sky and get close enough to him to shut down his electronics. In any case, he'd have his hands full. Black Panther would be facing Luther on the ground, which would make for a solid fight. Cassandra having no way of detecting Ninjak would eat a shuriken to the skull, logically. She has no way of defending against that.

6. BP's energy daggers hit people who dodge and catch bullets and even people much much faster than that all the time.

Plus BP's used to fighting people who outright dodge bullets AFTER they're fired like Wolverine and Spider-Man. And he outspeeds and outfights them with ease. And yes, you guessed it. I have scans if you want.

7. You'll avoid what? I don't see how bullet timing lets you avoid venom sting. To get to my flag you have to literally travel through webs and the webs conduct the venom sting. It's undodgeable. Ask Spider-Man himself.

First scan is nice, but isn't anything Luther can't dance around. He's literally stated (and has later on) that he can dance around dozens of high caliber machine gun bullets all at once, so energy dagger spam wouldn't be a problem. Namor isn't a casual bullet timer, to my knowledge. Tony was busy with Wolverine, and was also under the impression beforehand that T'Challa couldn't even hurt his armor - so he obviously wasn't even trying to dodge the energy daggers. Last scan isn't impressive.

Luther can also dodge bullets AFTER they're fired.

BP doesn't easily outspeed Wolverine or Spider-Man. He can keep up with them both, but then so could Luther. You show me BP tagging them with energy daggers while they're actively trying to dodge them, then we'll talk.

7. Avoid the plants or a projectile web. All my team members are fast enough to do so. They don't have to touch the webs, and thanks to my perk they will be perfectly aware of the venom sting. They would likely dispatch Miles and then cut his webs apart, then retrieve the flag. They don't have to fumble onto them like idiots, which is what your plan seems to require.

And...I don't know I guess a bonus round. You keep mentioning that your guys time bullets or w/e so I guess I'll show some dodging feats for my guys:

Black Panther outmoving Spider-Man, Wolverine, Iron Fist, Invisible Woman's shield, and making a guy stab himself.

I brought up bullet timing when I was talking about my team members dodging web projectiles, plants ect.

Black Panther tagged Spider-Man once. That isn't easily outmoving him. That's just landing a single hit. Peter could certainly do the same back. Iron Fist tagged Black Panther during that fight so I don't know why you're using a selective scan of T'Challa blocking his attacks to say he "outmoved" him. T'Challa tagging Wolverine, and Wolverine remarking on his speed is one showing of T'Challa doing well against Wolverine. It isn't a confirmation of him being faster than Wolverine, not is it concluding evidence that he can "easily" outmove him. He just did well against him, partly through fighting skill. The classic age scan is.. okay I guess, and making a guy stab himself is okay.

As for the other speed feats, I'll include my scans by the end of the week for general speed.

So overall, there were things you dismissed, things you didn't counter but most importantly:

  • Didn't Counter Ivy's plants
  • Didn't counter the webs/venom sting plan

After you do that, we can dance.

What did I dismiss or fail to counter? Lol.

I didn't not counter Ivy's plants, I asked questions about them prior to being shown a single scan of them. I'm now questioning the context of some of your scans which, in general, truth be told, seem very selective, and some are out of context.

Well, regardless of whether you thought my opening thoughts on the venom sting were sufficient, I've countered it now.

Let's dance.

#3 Posted by i_like_swords (13028 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: That's fair enough and all, but it shouldn't be brought up in battle threads. Would it be fair to say that your dislike of certain Star Wars time periods affects howyou view the characters in battles? Because whenever I've seen you debate it, you seem to enjoy talking about how X is utterly unimpressive, and why Y would decimate them while clipping their toenails, and just in general degrade certain aspects of SW in your answers. It just seems kind of pointless to me.

#4 Edited by i_like_swords (13028 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: Its just the fact you manage to slip in some kind of jab at SW in every thread regarding it. Even if it's totally off topic. In my mind you've shown pretty clear bias against anything that isn't TOR era SW.

I don't care if someone has a differing opinion about SW - I'm just saying, there's no point in talking about how much you dislike it or how much you think it sucks in every thread.

#5 Posted by i_like_swords (13028 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by i_like_swords (13028 posts) - - Show Bio
#7 Posted by i_like_swords (13028 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: I am now no longer capable of considering anything you have to say about Star Wars. The first half of that video was just ridiculous. It's not even relevant to the thread. It's just you, yet again, bashing Sw for no real reason.

#8 Posted by i_like_swords (13028 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by i_like_swords (13028 posts) - - Show Bio

Who are these German fellows? They seem cool.

#10 Edited by i_like_swords (13028 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Starlord should win providing Bloodshot isn't given a chance to use technopathy on his gear. Bloodshots beestings could help. Starlord 8/10, Bloodshot scraping two wins if his healing is underrated, or if he can fight through get close and end the fight.