Why Marvel NOW is will be better for the consumer than the New 52

Tim Drake, what happened to thee?

Back about one year ago, DC started a new initiative that had a lot of people skeptical. They decided to reinvent their continuity for new people whilst attempting the keep the interest of long-time users -- which by itself is nearly a contradiction, both need to be balanced instead of trying to do both at the same time -- while at the same time releasing all of the their library of comics at brand new fresh number ones. This was obviously good for DC, because comic fans see a fresh new #1 in stores and its not hard to imagine everyone wants to get ahold of them. So for DC this obviously worked wonders because every other issue was sold out.

Now I don't mean to bash on DC, but the fact is, if you're expecting to hear me say good things about them you're definitely in the wrong blog. As a DC-preferent consumer myself, I didn't think that the New 52 was that bad of a deal. Everything was the same for Batman and Green Lantern whilst others got reworked a bit? Win-Win, right? No. Bat-Family (I wouldn't know about GL) got their continuity reworked for sure and whilst I held on for a long time ot the belief that it was just small things like the age Grayson was put under Wayne's wing, we end up getting things like Drake's origin completely reworked. He's was olympic athlete, not a regular school boy.

I no like.

Furthermore DC's continuity did not need to be reworked in any manner, it was perfect for everyone who read DC. Sure, I understand that it might have been hard for those that were trying to get into DC and while I quite honestly don't see that I think that they could have gotten past this without actually rebooting their universe. Because at this point, denying that this is a reboot is proposterous. Not that I mind at the end of the day, but considering that the emphasis was put on this not being a reboot, its one lie I could do without.

This looks interesting, don't it?

Marvel on the other hand did one thing absolutely right. They're not reworking their continuity as its going to be absolutely the same for everyone. And they're still most likely going (because at this point I can't really guarantee anything) going to be swimming in money. Why? #1s. We absolutely love them. Furthermore Marvel's probably going to make sure that their Marvel NOW sells even better, just by looking at the scheme of things. In a purely business standpoint they're evening managing to take our money better than DC did, while giving us an arguably better product?

Why do you say this Haay?

Oh well...

Simple. Look at it this way. Marvel is going to be releasing a new #1 every week, or something along those lines. So that means that as a customer you're going to have enough money to spend on this new and curious product their offering, every week, because at the end of the month that's only 4 more comics or so that you're going to have to buy and you're wallets going to be okay with it. DC on the other hand released all of their #1s in the space of one month and not everyone can just simply be 52 comics in the space of one month. So yes, at the end of the day its much more likely that you're going to be able to feed into all of Marvel's bull than DC's bull, simply because its more affordable in the long run of things. This will also have an even greater scope, since because you can try more comics, you can also decide which comics to keep. Of course under the assumption that Marvel is putting out the best product they can (yes, lets ignore reality for a bit guys in favor of a hypothetical) this means that they'll be confident that their product can sway you to keep them.

Of course this doesn't answer anything about the peculiarity of DC's situation which some claim was: "DC was hard to get into" to which I say bull, but whatever. Even if DC was hard to get into, it'd be much easier to retcon EVERYTHING that happened within DC to 7 years (so no retcons) and pull off a 1 Year later kind of thing where everyone gets a new fresh start without having to screw us over by lying to us. Then everyone would be happy. New consumers would have the ability to enjoy the magnificence that are the DC characters. Old users would be able to enjoy everything. And DC would get a bunch of #1s ala Marvel NOW.

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Posted by SC

Excellent blog, you have covered a lot of bases and I pretty much agree with all your points. I will still be interested to see how Marvel's digital future plays out and also to see what, if DC will be doing announcing anything a few days before Marvel Now actually rolls out.  

Moderator
Posted by Haaydrian

@SC said:

Excellent blog, you have covered a lot of bases and I pretty much agree with all your points. I will still be interested to see how Marvel's digital future plays out and also to see what, if DC will be doing announcing anything a few days before Marvel Now actually rolls out.

I doubt that DC will actually do anything as a response. As a matter of fact, I think that it would make more sense to say that Marvel is responding to DC.

DC was the hamster in an experiment which Marvel perfected.

Posted by SC
@Haaydrian:  Oh, I mean in the try to steal thunder sense. Like I remember Marvel announced something random the same day the New 52 debuted, now what was it.... Oh thats right, I think it was that they were ending Uncanny X-Men. Not huge in the grand scheme of things, and now that I remember was a few weeks before New 52 started. Maybe DC will announce a new high profile creative team. Who knows.   
 
Definitely agree Marvel used DC as the hamster that they used to see what floated and sunk.  
Moderator
Posted by The Stegman
Of course It's better. Relaunch>>Reboot
Posted by Selinaky

I pretty much agree... I'm a long-time DC fan and I read a lot of the New 52, but I'm actually more looking forward to Marvel NOW somehow.

Posted by Haaydrian

@Selinaky said:

I pretty much agree... I'm a long-time DC fan and I read a lot of the New 52, but I'm actually more looking forward to Marvel NOW somehow.

Same here.

Posted by TheAcidSkull

@Haaydrian said:

DC was the hamster in an experiment which Marvel perfected.

This all the way

Posted by SoA

dropping marvel because of marvel NOW, still sticking with DC

Posted by TheAcidSkull

@SoA said:

dropping marvel because of marvel NOW, still sticking with DC

so your dropping something that you don't even know what it is ?

Posted by Haaydrian

@SoA said:

dropping marvel because of marvel NOW, still sticking with DC

Cool. Makes absolutely no sense to me, but whatever floats your boat.

Posted by Dark_Vengeance_

@Haaydrian: Because it's retarded, Marvel said that they weren't going to do a reboot, and they did. they are copying DC, and don't get me wrong I'm still a die hard fan of Spider-man, Deadpool, and Daredevil. but that's it.

Posted by Vance Astro

I think we are giving Marvel too much credit from the door. Half of the things they've done in the last 10 years have seemed like good ideas and then they were poorly executed and we hated them. The idea to do an event every year for instance. Events were stale by the time Dark Reign came out because Secret Invasion was god awful. I'm A Marvel reader. I've always read Marvel more so than DC and it's because they have a better roster of characters and a better grip on how superhero comics are supposed to be done but it's been mostly gimmicks with them for too long and alot of subpar writing. While DC made changes that I absolutely hate, they made a lot of good ones as well. New52 brought in some interesting villains, it made me like Aquaman, Superman is more interesting to me now. They did very well sales wise too. We won't know if Marvel NOW is a good money move for Marvel until the figures drop. Alot of the Marvel NOW ideas i've heard and seen so far look VERY interesting but for Marvel it's all about execution, the best things I can think of about the idea is the return of the Thunderbolts, A better core Avengers team without Bendis' writing, and new series I never heard of that I can now try out.

Moderator
Posted by Haaydrian

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Haaydrian: Because it's retarded, Marvel said that they weren't going to do a reboot, and they did. they are copying DC, and don't get me wrong I'm still a die hard fan of Spider-man, Deadpool, and Daredevil. but that's it.

Its not a Reboot. They're just launching titles at #1 and calling it a fancy name. DC altered their continuity.

Posted by Dark_Vengeance_

@Haaydrian: well it's half a reboot.

Posted by Haaydrian

@Vance Astro said:

I think we are giving Marvel too much credit from the door. Half of the things they've done in the last 10 years have seemed like good ideas and then they were poorly executed and we hated them.

I'm not talking about the stories though, I'm talking about the idea of what they're doing from a business perspective.

The idea to do an event every year for instance. Events were stale by the time Dark Reign came out because Secret Invasion was god awful. I'm A Marvel reader.

All of that true, but I don't see how it pretains o the fact that continuity isn't being altered. You can't say "Marvel NOW sucked" because there's no story behind it. You can say "AvX sucked" or "the fallout of AvX sucked" but that's not that same as saying the former.

I've always read Marvel more so than DC and it's because they have a better roster of characters and a better grip on how superhero comics are supposed to be done but it's been mostly gimmicks with them for too long and alot of subpar writing.

Okay. Same as above.

While DC made changes that I absolutely hate, they made a lot of good ones as well. New52 brought in some interesting villains, it made me like Aquaman, Superman is more interesting to me now.

They could have done all of this without altering continuity, could they not? With a "One Year Later"-esque deal as I mentioned above?

They did very well sales wise too. We won't know if Marvel NOW is a good money move for Marvel until the figures drop.

Completely true. But from a business perspective, without knowing the sales of any of them, NOW seems like a more apt idea. I don't expect NOW to beat New 52 though, because a lot more people were buying into the idea of DC. But that's neither here nor there.

Posted by Haaydrian

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Haaydrian: well it's half a reboot.

...No... It isn't.

Posted by SoA

@Vance Astro: i agree with this , especially the aquaman and superman part.

Posted by cameron83

actually more people like the new 52 since they see how it is unraveling and whats to come.Alot of people,like me,hated it at first,but then it grew on me and i like it better than everything else.However the ONLY bad part is that you have to wait like 3 months just to get a comic or one that you want.If marvel does it weekly,goodbye dc.But dc NEEDED the reboot,and lots of people like the reboot.Like me,and with a glimpse of what is seen ahead,people love the new 52.And i love everything about it,except for waiting a long time just for a few comics,it's painfully agonizing.

Posted by Haaydrian

@cameron83 said:

actually more people like the new 52 since they see how it is unraveling and whats to come.Alot of people,like me,hated it at first,but then it grew on me and i like it better than everything else.However the ONLY bad part is that you have to wait like 3 months just to get a comic or one that you want.If marvel does it weekly,goodbye dc.But dc NEEDED the reboot,and lots of people like the reboot.Like me,and with a glimpse of what is seen ahead,people love the new 52.And i love everything about it,except for waiting a long time just for a few comics,it's painfully agonizing.

I see. Where we fundamentally disagree is that DC needed one.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think everything good that came from DC could have been done without it. If DC did a Marvel NOW, as opposed to the reboot, I'd have been much happier.

Posted by SoA

@Haaydrian: my boat thanks you

Posted by Haaydrian

@SoA said:

@Haaydrian: my boat thanks you

Took me a while to get this, lol.

Posted by Icarus_Ashes

As a new comic reader (or returning since I collected X-men in my youth for a few years during the mid 90's) I was one of the people who got back into collecting comics because of the New 52. I hadn't really read DC before and it looked pretty interesting at the time. Now a year later and I've continued collecting DC and a few Marvel titles as well, but going back and reading quite a bit of the pre-New 52 stuff the retconing is really starting to bug me and I could see how could really piss off long time DC fans. I'm looking foward to Marvel NOW, I feel it's a good thing and I too feel that it will probably be handled better than the New 52. At this point I really think DC should of done a "hard reset" if they were changing so much of the continuity instead of trying to squeeze decades of history into 5 years. Starting from scratch in terms of history/continuity would of been better imho then the mess they've created.

Posted by TheCrowbar

@TheAcidSkull said:

@SoA said:

dropping marvel because of marvel NOW, still sticking with DC

so your dropping something that you don't even know what it is ?

After the shitting Marvel has been giving characters, Cap, Cyclops, Xavier, etc over the last few years. I can I'm not going to be around for Marvel Now.

Posted by Haaydrian

@TheCrowbar said:

After the shitting Marvel has been giving characters, Cap, Cyclops, Xavier, etc over the last few years. I can I'm not going to be around for Marvel Now.

Lets be fair though. You're not dropping because of Marvel NOW, you're dropping because of AvX and its outcome, correct?

Posted by Squalleon

Don't judge a book by it's cover! I will wait before i say which one is better.Especially with marvel's current policy.

Posted by Icarus_Ashes

Everytime I buy the latest issue to AvX I feel like Marvel takes my money and ridicules me with every page they print of that garbage. They are allowed to though because I keep buying.

Posted by Haaydrian

@Squalleon said:

Don't judge a book by it's cover! I will wait before i say which one is better.Especially with marvel's current policy.

I think people aren't understanding. I'm not talking about the stories/books/whatever. I'm talking about the idea of a Marvel NOW or the idea of a New 52.

Posted by TheAcidSkull

@TheCrowbar said:

@TheAcidSkull said:

@SoA said:

dropping marvel because of marvel NOW, still sticking with DC

so your dropping something that you don't even know what it is ?

After the shitting Marvel has been giving characters, Cap, Cyclops, Xavier, etc over the last few years. I can I'm not going to be around for Marvel Now.

yes , well it's because marvel screwed up that i;m excited for marvel Now, i am hoping they can redeem themselves, i will pick up the issues from marvel now, but i'll drop it if it gets shitty

Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus

Marvel's setting out to perfect this year what DC started in an experimental sense last year. That's exactly what I surmised when I first found out about Marvel NOW and had suspected as early as one year ago when New 52 came into full swing.

Edited by Lvenger

Marvel Now! is better executed than The New 52 IMO. It provides a jumping on point for any new readers without the glaring continuity issues of the New 52. And Marvel Now! basically replicates everything else of the New 52. New costumes, new creative teams, new directions etc. I'm still a predominantly DC reader though but I wish the New 52 were a bit more like Marvel Now! so the faults with it wouldn't be so obvious.

Posted by Squalleon

@Haaydrian:I will say New 52 only because i like the idea of a fresh new start since dc had to make a complete reboot since 80s.

A relaunch is good when the universe is simple,in dc's case a relaunch wouldn't solve anything.Dc tends to complicate it's stories.

I say that the idea's are good for it's company.Marvel didn't needed a reboot but it needed something to counter dc's new 52 a relaunch is a perfect solution.

Edited by TheCrowbar

@TheAcidSkull: They had their chance with me during Dark Reign, which was boss. But they've disappointed me since.

@Haaydrian: AvX was the last straw.

Posted by TheAcidSkull

@TheCrowbar said:

@TheAcidSkull: They had their chance with me during Dark Reign, which was boss. But they've disappointed me since.

@Haaydrian: AvX was the last straw.

to each to his own then :)

Posted by theTimeStreamer

@SoA: unbeatable reasoning my friend.

Posted by Vance Astro
@Haaydrian said:

I'm not talking about the stories though, I'm talking about the idea of what they're doing from a business perspective.

Marvel is still a top 2 publisher in the medium by a long shot. All they can do is trade places with DC which they've done off and on for years. This isn't going to guarantee them a permanent spot at the top. 
 
@Haaydrian said:

All of that true, but I don't see how it pretains o the fact that continuity isn't being altered. You can't say "Marvel NOW sucked" because there's no story behind it. You can say "AvX sucked" or "the fallout of AvX sucked" but that's not that same as saying the former.

From a business perspective, altering continuity didn't hurt DC. They've done very well so far. I CAN say that Marvel NOW sucked because there was no story behind it. The point of doing something like this should be to enhance the quality of your books. 
 
@Haaydrian said: 

They could have done all of this without altering continuity, could they not? With a "One Year Later"-esque deal as I mentioned above?

No, especially for Aquaman. He's a character that is generally viewed as "lame","pointless",& "useless". The New52 raises the awareness for new readers and then with the better writing it gives them a reason to keep reading. 
 
@Haaydrian said: 

Completely true. But from a business perspective, without knowing the sales of any of them, NOW seems like a more apt idea. I don't expect NOW to beat New 52 though, because a lot more people were buying into the idea of DC. But that's neither here nor there.

NOW should be Marvel's cue to actually try and make better quality books. Don't start books back at one and then continue to do the same stuff.
Moderator
Posted by Haaydrian

@Vance Astro:

Marvel is still a top 2 publisher in the medium by a long shot. All they can do is trade places with DC which they've done off and on for years. This isn't going to guarantee them a permanent spot at the top.

And...?

From a business perspective, altering continuity didn't hurt DC. They've done very well so far. I CAN say that Marvel NOW sucked because there was no story behind it. The point of doing something like this should be to enhance the quality of your books.

No, but it hurt the consumer. At least me, because I didn't like the fact it was a reboot, whereas NOW! is going to be a simple relaunch. It allows Marvel to take a new direction.

No, especially for Aquaman. He's a character that is generally viewed as "lame","pointless",& "useless". The New52 raises the awareness for new readers and then with the better writing it gives them a reason to keep reading.

They could have done it without the reboot. All they had to do was get a writer that made him "cool".

NOW should be Marvel's cue to actually try and make better quality books. Don't start books back at one and then continue to do the same stuff.

Exactly. NOW allows new and old fans to get into Marvel. New 52 estranged old fans, with me being an example of one.

Posted by Dreamcast89

You two have no idea what your talking about. Peter David's Aquaman was awesome and hardcore. What is this nonsense that New 52 made Aquaman cool.

Posted by Haaydrian

@Dreamcast89 said:

You two have no idea what your talking about. Peter David's Aquaman was awesome and hardcore. What is this nonsense that New 52 made Aquaman cool.

You're the one that clearly has no idea what he's talking about. No one said Aquaman wasn't cool, only that he was perceived by others as not being cool generally.

Posted by Vance Astro
@Haaydrian said:

And...?

So then how is this BETTER for business? They aren't going anywhere. They will either outdo DC temporarily (which is what they were doing on occasion already) or the New52 will still overshadow them slightly. 
 
@Haaydrian said:

No, but it hurt the consumer. At least me, because I didn't like the fact it was a reboot, whereas NOW! is going to be a simple relaunch. It allows Marvel to take a new direction.

It didn't hurt the consumer. Their sales rose. Even people who admit they had a problem with that aspect of the New 52 still picked up in read those books. This might allow Marvel to take a new direction without starting over but to me it just seems like a another gimmick that they will execute poorly. Isn't this what the "HEROIC AGE" was supposed to be? They started alot of books back at one and started some new books. 
 
@Haaydrian said:

They could have done it without the reboot. All they had to do was get a writer that made him "cool".

They could have but they didn't and it didn't effect them. I don't know why rebooting is necessarily a bad thing.  
 
@Haaydrian said:

Exactly. NOW allows new and old fans to get into Marvel. New 52 estranged old fans, with me being an example of one.

Sales figures say different. 
Moderator
Posted by Dreamcast89

@Haaydrian said:

@Dreamcast89 said:

You two have no idea what your talking about. Peter David's Aquaman was awesome and hardcore. What is this nonsense that New 52 made Aquaman cool.

You're the one that clearly has no idea what he's talking about. No one said Aquaman wasn't cool, only that he was perceived by others as not being cool generally.

Your comment makes zero sense. If Aquaman has been well written and cool since the 90s what does New 52 have to do with his perception.

Posted by Haaydrian

@Dreamcast89 said:

@Haaydrian said:

@Dreamcast89 said:

You two have no idea what your talking about. Peter David's Aquaman was awesome and hardcore. What is this nonsense that New 52 made Aquaman cool.

You're the one that clearly has no idea what he's talking about. No one said Aquaman wasn't cool, only that he was perceived by others as not being cool generally.

Your comment makes zero sense. If Aquaman has been well written and cool since the 90s what does New 52 have to do with his perception.

Because he was perceived as wimpy by others.

Posted by Dreamcast89

@Haaydrian said:

@Dreamcast89 said:

@Haaydrian said:

@Dreamcast89 said:

You two have no idea what your talking about. Peter David's Aquaman was awesome and hardcore. What is this nonsense that New 52 made Aquaman cool.

You're the one that clearly has no idea what he's talking about. No one said Aquaman wasn't cool, only that he was perceived by others as not being cool generally.

Your comment makes zero sense. If Aquaman has been well written and cool since the 90s what does New 52 have to do with his perception.

Because he was perceived as wimpy by others.

Why was he perceived as wimpy when he has been written hardcore for over 20 years?

Posted by Haaydrian
So then how is this BETTER for business? They aren't going anywhere. They will either outdo DC temporarily (which is what they were doing on occasion already) or the New52 will still overshadow them slightly.

Temporarily outdoing DC means they're doing better business. Short-Term, yes, but Short-Term profit is still profit.

  1. It didn't hurt the consumer. Their sales rose. Even people who admit they had a problem with that aspect of the New 52 still picked up in read those books.

I don't. I'm an old reader. They estranged me. It hurt me as a consumer, who was happy with the old DC. I'm not the only one. Saying their sales rose means nothing, that could be all New people. Additionally, I was looking forward to the New 52.

This might allow Marvel to take a new direction without starting over but to me it just seems like a another gimmick that they will execute poorly.

Possibly in practice. The idea/theory behind it is still sound.

Isn't this what the "HEROIC AGE" was supposed to be? They started alot of books back at one and started some new books.

...?

They could have but they didn't and it didn't effect them. I don't know why rebooting is necessarily a bad thing.

They could have and attracted both old and new. In the reboot, I as a customer was estranged from the product being provided. So rebooting to me is obviously a bad thing. That may not be the case for you, but you've stated your preference with Marvel.

Sales figures say different.

For sales figures to say different, you'd have to prove that all the old fans still read New 52, PLUS the new fans. Its more likely that some old fans dropped, and many more new fans came in to try. Regardless, none of them could be proved.

Posted by Haaydrian

@Dreamcast89 said:

@Haaydrian said:

@Dreamcast89 said:

@Haaydrian said:

@Dreamcast89 said:

You two have no idea what your talking about. Peter David's Aquaman was awesome and hardcore. What is this nonsense that New 52 made Aquaman cool.

You're the one that clearly has no idea what he's talking about. No one said Aquaman wasn't cool, only that he was perceived by others as not being cool generally.

Your comment makes zero sense. If Aquaman has been well written and cool since the 90s what does New 52 have to do with his perception.

Because he was perceived as wimpy by others.

Why was he perceived as wimpy when he has been written hardcore for over 20 years?

Superfriends I'm guessing. Its irrelevant, the fact is he was.

Posted by Dreamcast89

I understand that. But you just claimed New 52 made him cool when in fact Peter David's run in 1994 made him cool. The Superfriends jokes and negative perceptions died in the late 80s when Aquaman was re-written.

Posted by Eternal19

The only Marvel Now book that I plan on getting is All new X-men, I was going to get Hulk but, i dont like what waid did with Daredevil so, im kinda iffey on whether im going to enjoy it. I prefer DC stuff because i find the charecters more interesting and i like the way they do there comics better. Marvel tends to try and put charecters that i like better when they are in there own little part of the universe(daredevil,spiderman, and moon knight) and make them constantly teaming up with other heroes like Captian America when I wanted to be reading a book about that one charecter. A cameo is ok ounce in a while but every other issue is kinda annoying.

Posted by daredevil21134

@Haaydrian said:

@SC said:

Excellent blog, you have covered a lot of bases and I pretty much agree with all your points. I will still be interested to see how Marvel's digital future plays out and also to see what, if DC will be doing announcing anything a few days before Marvel Now actually rolls out.

I doubt that DC will actually do anything as a response. As a matter of fact, I think that it would make more sense to say that Marvel is responding to DC.

DC was the hamster in an experiment which Marvel perfected.

I agree

Posted by MadeinBangladesh

I agree with the OP.

Posted by Cavemold

After the pointless AVX I will be getting Thor X-force Thunderbolts Venom Scarlet spider Deadpool As of now from DC I'm getting Batman Nightwing Batman Inc Team 7 (still testing out) Talon will be book I try Earth -2

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