Gylan Thomas

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Women in comics.

I don't know about you but I love women. Soft in all the right places :P
Love comics too and I'm wondering if female characters get fair treated when it comes the four colour page.
Sure I understand readerships probably still predominantly male and we do like to see those little tiny outfits but when there's just no depth to a character I sorta lose interes.
There's been a lotta of great female characters and they've had some great books too. Birds of Prey, She-Hulk, Catwoman's had some good shots too. One thing that often bothers me too is that while a lot of female characters go on to develop well many start off as lazy creations. Copies of male characters. Don't believe me?

  • Spider-woman
  • She-Hulk
  • Batgirl
  • Supergirl
  • Spider-woman
  • Rescue (Pepper Pots)
  • X-23
  • Jesse Quick
  • Batwoman
  • Hawk Girl
See?
Heck, look at Wonder Woman. Diana Prince is basicly Clark Kent with boobies. (And don't get me started on that. Way better as just Princess Diana.
 
How about the stories the ladies are get? Barbara Gordon was used in Killing Joke to establish the Joker as a bad ass, Storm was one of the Strongest X-men and now she's been reduced to little more than T' Challla's wife with little or no time left for mutant adventures and how about Wonder woman's use in Final Crisis.
 
The thing that's got me thinkin' about this is Marvel pushing female books that, in my opinion at least, feel like dolls for the female readership to play with. Girl Comics, Her-oes and Diva's to name a few.
And now we've got the overly sexual X-women to look forward to as well? Of course there's the overly sexual aproach to women in comics in general. Remember Huntress's ridiculous costume change for Hush? I'm a dude and I thought it was stoopid.
 
I wanna see more stories or runs in series along the lines of Greg Rucka's Wonder Woman And Birds of Prey which has pretty much been consistantly good. She-Hulk's had some good run's too. And how about Darwyn Cookes run on Catwoman? And if you're not reading Echo you really should be. 

I guess my point is comics can always use new readers and if I was a chick (if I was I'd be a hot chick) I'd be put off by most of what's available and the approach to female character.
 
What do all you viners think?
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Gylan Thomas

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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@erik said:
" @Gylan Thomas:  Never!   "
I would.
Gotta go now though.
I will of course be last wordin' what ever it is you say next as soon as I get back.
kinda curious now though. If neither of us 'fessed up that we were just playing just how alpha male would we have got? 
I can't fight in real life but I'm a killer online.
With the testosterone flowing I'm pretty sure the moderators would've had to get involved :P
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Erik

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Edited By Erik
@Gylan Thomas:  
Never!  
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Gylan Thomas

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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@erik said:
" @Gylan Thomas:  Of course I did. I am not trying to falsely claim that I am above it though. I readily admit that I am a last word freak.  I am always happy to make amends though. To be honest, all I have seen this as is casual banter. I am hard to offend over the internet. It was more or less a game for me.  "
Really? 
I'm actually a teeny tiny bit diaspponted with that.
I was begining to hope I was really  windin' you up :P
 
I've seen so many people start trouble online when there is none some times it annoys me when I think I see it happening so the post saying I was lucky people posted at all sort of got me thinkin'  you where just tryin' to start some thing or just flat out over reacting.
 
I think we would've both kept this up all night too.
you'd have caved first though :p
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Erik

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Edited By Erik
@Gylan Thomas:  
Of course I did. I am not trying to falsely claim that I am above it though. I readily admit that I am a last word freak. 
 
I am always happy to make amends though. To be honest, all I have seen this as is casual banter. I am hard to offend over the internet. It was more or less a game for me. 
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Gylan Thomas

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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@erik said:
" @Gylan Thomas:  So much for moving on eh? He brought it up because it is his job to prevent potential fires. He did not even bother to say I was wrong or doing something wrong because I was not. You seem to be a person in conflict with himself. Usually people who say they have "moved on" do not feel the need to get the last word in.  "
But didn't you just try to get the last word in?
I'm ok wirth it bud. Honestly. The male rape thing struck a nerve but it's in the past now. Let's just forget about it.
Friends? :)
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Edited By Erik
@Gylan Thomas:  
So much for moving on eh? 
He brought it up because it is his job to prevent potential fires. He did not even bother to say I was wrong or doing something wrong because I was not. 
You seem to be a person in conflict with himself. Usually people who say they have "moved on" do not feel the need to get the last word in. 
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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@erik said:
" @Gylan Thomas:  Actually, Gambler said it seemed hostile and went on to express that it might not be anything of the sort.   I have not been offended at all. I do not even care about you. If you really have moved on, stop filling my inbox to bring me back here.  "
So it might've been hostile and it might not have? Odd he brought it up at all really though.
What ever dude. Really doesn't matter.
Sorry abotu the reply. Just seemed sociable after you replyed to me :D
Bye
XXX
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Edited By Erik
@Gylan Thomas:  
Actually, Gambler said it seemed hostile and went on to express that it might not be anything of the sort.  
 
I have not been offended at all. I do not even care about you. If you really have moved on, stop filling my inbox to bring me back here. 
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Gylan Thomas

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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@erik said:
" @Gylan Thomas:  I was just using X-23 as an example. I am aware that she is a fictional character. You claim to not want aggressive behavior on your blog, yet you seem to be making effort to instigate aggression. Again, if you do not like how I type and are so easily offended by it, too bad. Do not tell me how to post. "
With all due respect erik I'm not the only one who found your tone up there kinda hostile. Gambler mentioned too. He called it "hostile"
I'm far from easily offended but bear in mind this is the internet and all people have to judge tone by is typed words.
All I'm sayin' is try to be a little more diplomatic and tactful. Not trying to tell you how to post.
If some thing in the discusion or subject we were engaged in here offended you in some way it wasn't intentional so there's really no need to over react. Going by your last post it seems you're still on the defensicve.
I've moved on now :)
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Edited By Erik
@Gylan Thomas: 
I was just using X-23 as an example. I am aware that she is a fictional character. You claim to not want aggressive behavior on your blog, yet you seem to be making effort to instigate aggression. Again, if you do not like how I type and are so easily offended by it, too bad. Do not tell me how to post.
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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@doordoor123 said:
" You should read the upcoming batwoman. Sure she has the word "bat" in her hero name and does the same thing batman does but she is a very deep and unique character. Currently there are more women heroes in DC than there are men. The problem is that Marvel writers dont know how to really write for women. They dont go too deep into characters. See the Ms. Marvel series to see how bad it is. But DC is really bringing up the women heroes now-a-days. Power Girl is a fun comic. Power Girl is also the leader of JSA All-Stars. Birds of Prey are returning. There is a Batgirl series out, with the spoiler as batgirl.  Usually women comics dont sell well because the writers are never too invested in women characters. When they are, the comics sell. AKA Wonder Woman.  But i agree on one thing. The writers need to bring some more women characters into the big picture with wonder woman. Right now shes the biggest woman character. No other female character compares to her, while the male characters dominate the big picture. But its life. Males will always be superior. "
I agree with pretty much all of that but I did a little "lol" at "males will always be superior".  :D
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Gylan Thomas

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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@erik said:

" @Gylan Thomas:  There was nothing belligerent or aggressive about my post at all. If you think otherwise, too bad for you. I suppose facts are offensive. Do not tell me how to post, I know the rules of the site and have not exceeded them. Just because I am not making every effort to not offend your delicate nature, does not mean I am kicking sand in your eyes.  "

My nature is far from delicate and I wasn't talking about breaking site rules. 
At the very least your post came off as very defensive and to tell me I "should be happy anyone wanted to post" in my blog certainly doesn't come off as friendly.
All I'm askin' is to keep the tone a little more sociable so there's really no need for you to be offended or defensive and certainly no need to get hostile.  
 

@erik

said:

" @Gambler said:

" @erik:  The last post seems a little hostile though. Could just be the internet. "
I seriously think it is because I do not use contractions in my posts. Kind of like how X-23 speaks.  "
X-23's a fictional character bud. And her fictional past makes her socially awkward.
When interacting wtih real people it's important to conduct ones self in a diplomatic way. Especially online where most elements of communication are removed and all a person has to judge mood by is typed words.
I myself enjoy the social element of Comicvine. If you can't play nice with the grown ups and would prefer to pretend you're X-24 please keep it off my threads. 
Regardless of site rules I'm not looking for online arguments.
I'm sure you understand.
Thanks
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Yumulu

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@Gylan Thomas said:

I personally have never heard of a woman raping a man. 
there a small list even if some seems to be a little far fetched.
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@CylonDorado: 
thanks. ok so what are some of the best examples of a female character(s) being portrayed badly? jw.
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@moviegeek17:
Seconded.
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I believe that if the writer of a female character really cares for that character then the results will show but if they dont then it will sucks, same goes for guy comic characters too. in theory if every character was given the proper amount of attention then their character could flourish, i think both dc and marvel should focus on this. though both of them probably do have at least one good female series going for each company

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@Gylan Thomas: DC is just as bad as Marvel with their Gotham City Sirens. Marvels Girl Comics has mainly, if not all, female writers, artists, etc. It's not just about female heroes.
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@Gambler said:
" @erik:  The last post seems a little hostile though. Could just be the internet. "
I seriously think it is because I do not use contractions in my posts. Kind of like how X-23 speaks. 
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Edited By doordoor123

You should read the upcoming batwoman. Sure she has the word "bat" in her hero name and does the same thing batman does but she is a very deep and unique character.
Currently there are more women heroes in DC than there are men. The problem is that Marvel writers dont know how to really write for women. They dont go too deep into characters. See the Ms. Marvel series to see how bad it is. But DC is really bringing up the women heroes now-a-days. Power Girl is a fun comic. Power Girl is also the leader of JSA All-Stars. Birds of Prey are returning. There is a Batgirl series out, with the spoiler as batgirl. 
Usually women comics dont sell well because the writers are never too invested in women characters. When they are, the comics sell. AKA Wonder Woman. 
But i agree on one thing. The writers need to bring some more women characters into the big picture with wonder woman. Right now shes the biggest woman character. No other female character compares to her, while the male characters dominate the big picture.
But its life. Males will always be superior.

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@erik:  The last post seems a little hostile though. Could just be the internet.
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@Gylan Thomas:  
There was nothing belligerent or aggressive about my post at all. If you think otherwise, too bad for you. I suppose facts are offensive. 
Do not tell me how to post, I know the rules of the site and have not exceeded them. Just because I am not making every effort to not offend your delicate nature, does not mean I am kicking sand in your eyes. 
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@Gylan Thomas: Peace
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@Gambler said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler:  Weren't they a couple at the time?  Doesn't like there ws any kind of struggleSeems to me there's a lot to consider here. If they were a couple and she didn't hurt him any way was she jsut trying to help at an emotional time? "
Well, he struggled as much as he could for being poisoned. Devon Grayson (the writer behind it) has admitted she wrote it as rape. "
Seems plausible enough the way it looked on those pages. 
If it was you that checked my profile thanks. Just gotta come up with a topic that'll interest you guys now and I can travel back from 1984 :)
I really gotta go. Past bed time.
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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@erik said:

" @Gylan Thomas said: 

Full on rape or sexual assault? My problem here is if a dude isn't excited it's not gonna work and if he's scared or bein' attacked excitement's unlikely. Short or the knock out and piece of string theory I'm not so sure. I can't imagine another situation where full on male female to male rape might happen.  I going now. Again, thanks for completely changing the direction of my blog. "
I said rape because I meant rape. I know the difference between rape and sexual assault.   Men in abusive relationships are often known to be raped.   Furthermore, I am not the one that completely changed the direction of your blog but you should be happy anyone wanted to post in your blog at all.  "
Easy Erik.
We're all friend here.
I'm only kiddin' about the direction of the blog. It doesn't bother me at all and I'm not questioning weather or not you understand the difference between rape and sexual assault but some people do define them differently.
I personally have never heard of a woman raping a man. That's just me. I'm not questioning or challenging that it happens. I'm just sayin'. 

As for being happy any one at all has posted in my blog, I am. It seems to have been well recieved. The social element of comic vine is my favourite part. 
However every one else who's posted has simply talked and debated what's been said. Please don't come to my blog with a billigerent, aggressive attitude. I don't want it and I'm sure every oen else who's posted doesn't want it to degenerate into an arguement either. 
I understand it's often hard to read people attitude online but there's really no need to be so defensive or take a shot like, "you should be happy anyone wanted to post in your blog at all." 
If you want to post on my blogs again please try to keep it friendly.
Thank you
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@Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler:  Weren't they a couple at the time?  Doesn't like there ws any kind of struggleSeems to me there's a lot to consider here. If they were a couple and she didn't hurt him any way was she jsut trying to help at an emotional time? "
Well, he struggled as much as he could for being poisoned. Devon Grayson (the writer behind it) has admitted she wrote it as rape.
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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@Gambler: 
Weren't they a couple at the time? 
Doesn't like there ws any kind of struggle
Seems to me there's a lot to consider here. If they were a couple and she didn't hurt him any way was she jsut trying to help at an emotional time?
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@Gylan Thomas said: 
Full on rape or sexual assault? My problem here is if a dude isn't excited it's not gonna work and if he's scared or bein' attacked excitement's unlikely. Short or the knock out and piece of string theory I'm not so sure. I can't imagine another situation where full on male female to male rape might happen.  I going now. Again, thanks for completely changing the direction of my blog. "
I said rape because I meant rape. I know the difference between rape and sexual assault.  
 
Men in abusive relationships are often known to be raped.  
 
Furthermore, I am not the one that completely changed the direction of your blog but you should be happy anyone wanted to post in your blog at all. 
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@Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler:  Thanks. At bed time too. Sweet dreams eh?  Did he pass out? Looks like he's still sat up in panel two of the last page. "
I assumed she was holding him up in that position. Cause he's not saying or even mumbling anything, but its possible he's just suffering from the poison and just out of it. Either way the DCU confirmed it as rape.
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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@Gambler: 
Thanks.
At bed time too. Sweet dreams eh? 
Did he pass out? Looks like he's still sat up in panel two of the last page.
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@Gylan Thomas: check the scans above before you go
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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@erik said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler:  "shame and crying" eh? Not very condusive to a stimulating sexual encounter eh? Which is pretty much why female on male rape seems implausible.  I'm shocked that story was given the ok. "
Not only is it plausible, it happens enough in real life that it is starting to be talked about. Obviously it does not happen as often as male on female rape, but it actually happens.  "
Full on rape or sexual assault?
My problem here is if a dude isn't excited it's not gonna work and if he's scared or bein' attacked excitement's unlikely. Short or the knock out and piece of string theory I'm not so sure.
I can't imagine another situation where full on male female to male rape might happen.
 
I going now.
Again, thanks for completely changing the direction of my blog.
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@Gylan Thomas:
No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
he says no and then passes out. looks like date rape
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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@aztek the lost:@Gambler: 
Bed time in merry ole England so I'm gonna leave you cat's to it. 
If you've enjoyed this blog you should check out my profile. It's great. And maybe explain to me what counts as a topic. Despite you fine gentleman beein' here and turnin' this in to a male rape thing I'm still low on 1984 stuff :(
Do I need to do some thing in forums?
Thanks and good night
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@Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler:  "shame and crying" eh? Not very condusive to a stimulating sexual encounter eh? Which is pretty much why female on male rape seems implausible.  I'm shocked that story was given the ok. "
Not only is it plausible, it happens enough in real life that it is starting to be talked about. Obviously it does not happen as often as male on female rape, but it actually happens. 
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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@Gambler said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler:  "shame and crying" eh? Not very condusive to a stimulating sexual encounter eh? Which is pretty much why female on male rape seems implausible.  I'm shocked that story was given the ok. "
I'm just glad I'm not a Nightwing fan. I imagine it pissed alot of people off (and I dont remember exactly if it was full on penetration rape, or just Dr. bad touch rape). "
I always kinda think rape is penetration and any thing else is sexual assault. I'm not down playing non penetrative assualts. That's just how I've always sort of seen it.
(Again. What have you two done to my blog?!? :P)
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@Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler:  "shame and crying" eh? Not very condusive to a stimulating sexual encounter eh? Which is pretty much why female on male rape seems implausible.  I'm shocked that story was given the ok. "
I'm just glad I'm not a Nightwing fan. I imagine it pissed alot of people off (and I dont remember exactly if it was full on penetration rape, or just Dr. bad touch rape).
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@aztek the lost said:
" @Gambler: LMFAO!  well, I mean the point is it's possible to rape guys but it's still a pretty ridiculous story from what I've seen of it IMO "
Possible maybe. The attacker woudl still have to tie the victim down first or maybe knock them out.
God Damn!
Look what you've reduced my blog to! And you two are mod's as well. I better get quest points for this :P
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Edited By Gylan Thomas
@Gambler: 
"shame and crying" eh?
Not very condusive to a stimulating sexual encounter eh?
Which is pretty much why female on male rape seems implausible. 
I'm shocked that story was given the ok.
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@Gambler said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:

" @Gambler:  I missed the Tarantualla/ Nightwing rape but frankly it sounds ridiculous to me. I'll not go into details but I can;t see how that would work and I've never heard of a recorded case along those lines. Female/ male sexual assault yes but full on rape? I can't see how that'd work. "

That very subject has been debated on here before. Whether or not its ridiculous really wasn't the point I was trying to make :p  in fact I agree its ridiculous which is why I mentioned it. It clearly shows the state of things. That comics have been male dominated (both in terms of readership and within the industry) for so long, that some writers feel the need to flip the script to such a degree that we get a Nightwing rape scene lol. I imagine it works the same way 90% of the unrealistic feats in comics do. By ignoring reality. "
Sorry. I didn't mean to come off liek I didn't get your point. Just sayin' it seemed bizarre to me when I heard about it. I think the super stuff is ok to ignore reality but if we're dealing with some thing that can't be put down to a super power it needs to be done in a plausible way. "
Oh I know, just exchanges thoughts with ya. "
That's cool. Never can tell on tinternet :)
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@Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler said:
" @aztek the lost said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler:  I missed the Tarantualla/ Nightwing rape but frankly it sounds ridiculous to me. I'll not go into details but I can;t see how that would work and I've never heard of a recorded case along those lines. Female/ male sexual assault yes but full on rape? I can't see how that'd work. "
all you need is a piece of string "
Maybe thats all you need. I need a full on heavy duty rope son. The type they use to tie up Freighters <_< "
Is that how it went down in the story? All I need is dental floss :( No over compensation here though :P "
HAHAHA nice. And no, there was no rope involved. Just alot of shame and crying :P
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@Gambler said:
" @aztek the lost said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler:  I missed the Tarantualla/ Nightwing rape but frankly it sounds ridiculous to me. I'll not go into details but I can;t see how that would work and I've never heard of a recorded case along those lines. Female/ male sexual assault yes but full on rape? I can't see how that'd work. "
all you need is a piece of string "
Maybe thats all you need. I need a full on heavy duty rope son. The type they use to tie up Freighters <_< "
Is that how it went down in the story?
All I need is dental floss :( No over compensation here though :P
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@Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:

" @Gambler:  I missed the Tarantualla/ Nightwing rape but frankly it sounds ridiculous to me. I'll not go into details but I can;t see how that would work and I've never heard of a recorded case along those lines. Female/ male sexual assault yes but full on rape? I can't see how that'd work. "

That very subject has been debated on here before. Whether or not its ridiculous really wasn't the point I was trying to make :p  in fact I agree its ridiculous which is why I mentioned it. It clearly shows the state of things. That comics have been male dominated (both in terms of readership and within the industry) for so long, that some writers feel the need to flip the script to such a degree that we get a Nightwing rape scene lol. I imagine it works the same way 90% of the unrealistic feats in comics do. By ignoring reality. "
Sorry. I didn't mean to come off liek I didn't get your point. Just sayin' it seemed bizarre to me when I heard about it. I think the super stuff is ok to ignore reality but if we're dealing with some thing that can't be put down to a super power it needs to be done in a plausible way. "
Oh I know, just exchanges thoughts with ya.
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@Gambler said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:

" @Gambler:  I missed the Tarantualla/ Nightwing rape but frankly it sounds ridiculous to me. I'll not go into details but I can;t see how that would work and I've never heard of a recorded case along those lines. Female/ male sexual assault yes but full on rape? I can't see how that'd work. "

That very subject has been debated on here before. Whether or not its ridiculous really wasn't the point I was trying to make :p  in fact I agree its ridiculous which is why I mentioned it. It clearly shows the state of things. That comics have been male dominated (both in terms of readership and within the industry) for so long, that some writers feel the need to flip the script to such a degree that we get a Nightwing rape scene lol. I imagine it works the same way 90% of the unrealistic feats in comics do. By ignoring reality. "
Sorry. I didn't mean to come off liek I didn't get your point. Just sayin' it seemed bizarre to me when I heard about it.
I think the super stuff is ok to ignore reality but if we're dealing with some thing that can't be put down to a super power it needs to be done in a plausible way.
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@aztek the lost said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:
" @Gambler:  I missed the Tarantualla/ Nightwing rape but frankly it sounds ridiculous to me. I'll not go into details but I can;t see how that would work and I've never heard of a recorded case along those lines. Female/ male sexual assault yes but full on rape? I can't see how that'd work. "
all you need is a piece of string "
Maybe thats all you need. I need a full on heavy duty rope son. The type they use to tie up Freighters <_<
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@blackstormtorrent said:
" @Cherry Bomb said

 
@blackstormtorrent:  Thanks (: I'll have to check it out. I love Felicia and Monica, so I look forward to their scenes.  Do Felicia and Monica have big roles? Because I've only really heard about the cancer theme with patsy. "
yea there have sum scenes mostly about the cancer that i can remeber monica stuff about her and brother vodoo and felica is about her and sum rich guy cant remeber her story that much "
Sounds awfull. Supergirls havin' man trouble. Stick with Birds Cherry. 
@Cherry Bomb said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:
" Yuck! The characters had barely ever met before Divas. If at all.There was no set up or any thing. Seemed like the reader had missed some thing. Birds started from scratch. They weren't lazy about it. "
But Marvel Diva's was only a limited miniseries, planned for 4 issues. So I guess they had to speed things up and automatically make the characters friends. "
It was a four issue series but Birds was even less when it started. It was a one shot and it still took the time to set a back story in place in a good first part to it's story.
Marvel seemingly picked four disparate characters and threw them together in an attempt to appeal to female readers.
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@Gylan Thomas said:

" @Gambler:  I missed the Tarantualla/ Nightwing rape but frankly it sounds ridiculous to me. I'll not go into details but I can;t see how that would work and I've never heard of a recorded case along those lines. Female/ male sexual assault yes but full on rape? I can't see how that'd work. "

That very subject has been debated on here before. Whether or not its ridiculous really wasn't the point I was trying to make :p  in fact I agree its ridiculous which is why I mentioned it. It clearly shows the state of things. That comics have been male dominated (both in terms of readership and within the industry) for so long, that some writers feel the need to flip the script to such a degree that we get a Nightwing rape scene lol. I imagine it works the same way 90% of the unrealistic feats in comics do. By ignoring reality.
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@Gambler: 
I missed the Tarantualla/ Nightwing rape but frankly it sounds ridiculous to me.
I'll not go into details but I can;t see how that would work and I've never heard of a recorded case along those lines. Female/ male sexual assault yes but full on rape? I can't see how that'd work.
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@Gylan Thomas said:
" Of course the characters personalitys are different. If not it really woudl be an outright copy. However, stay with the Bat's as an example, Batgirl as a concept isn't the most original idea.  I'm not sure we can attribute every thing that happen with a Batgirl or because of a Batgirl to Bab's shooting years before either. What if Bab's had just retired?  Shooting Bab's was the desicion of one Allan Moore (big fan). Just like what Mike Grell did to Balck Canary in Long Bow Hunters (?) You are right about the whole "women in refrigerators" thing of  course. What it really comes down to is that the audience is predominantly male. "
 To me their personalities being different is essential in separating them as more then just "copies." Visually Batgirl has the look of Batman, but I think a copy is more then that. Moon Knight seems more like a copy of Batman then Batgirl and he has a completely different looking costume. We can certainly draw a line to what happened to Babs to the current state of the Batgirls now. You're right, she could have just retired, but look at the way fans reacted to Cassandra Cain just up and retiring. To me Barbara just retiring would have been far worse then her being shot. Crippling a known superherione was an emotional moment, and I believe it was a first. Havent read Long Bow so I'm not sure what the reference is there? I know who made the call to shoot Babs, its a classic moment in comics. Something people still talk about to this day. Its why I dont associate it with the other mishandlings of female characters. It was more then that.
 
I agree that the audience is predominately male, so the company panders to its core base. As more and more female fans appear the state of things will begin to change. We've already begun to see a role reversal here. I mean no one can tell me that Tarantula rapping Nightwing was anything other then Devin Grayson making a statement ;)
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