I could see Batman be the one holding up BP while Slade quickly disposes of the assassins and then run in to help. I know for sure that BP would be hell to fight 1 on 1 whether it was slade or bruce but together, they can do it. Slade shouldn't break a sweat handling the assassin's though. especially not new 52 slade.
lol believe me when I say that I am not a spiderman fanboy but I know enough about either characters to know that Peter is taking this without much of a sweat. Harry, to my knowledge has only casted one unfrgivable curse and Bellatrix lestrange was laughing it off (the cruciartis curse) so to say that Harry can cast all the curses just because he hardly performed one is an exaggeration. All these mental spells, radial spells make for a good argument and all but pete doesn't need to "come" close to Harry to hurt him, pete can literally encase harry completely in web like a straight jacket from afar before harry can wave his wand or open his mouth to speak. As mentioned abve, the only real reason Harry was able to survive even his first year at hogwarts was because of plot devices and heavy dues ex machina.
@the_mighty_Beyonder: Though our votes may differ, that was a response that I can respect. I honestly believe that this battle can't be resolved purely without opinion/bias or speculation because the premise in which these characters are based on (The comics themselves contradict, which is not hard to believe considering the time difference in publication between SW2 and Marvel:The End). I never truly made a case for Thanos because his time with the HOTU was so short and the details of his powers (along with the beyonder's) are bottom line incomprehensible.
My only argument was against your claim that the Beyonder is omnipotent, which we now agree upon as untrue (according to it's truest definition). The idea of different levels of omnipotence was coined just as a way to show you that the words of any character that isn't absolutely omniscient, no matter how potent cannot be relied upon and this includes HOTU Thanos.
@the_mighty_Beyonder said:
ok, now i'll be mathematical and use indirect proof by contradiction : Beyonder stated he don't have enough power to UNDO IT (just as written in scan) that means for you he's not infinite, but how can a person who's not infinite be more powerful than infinity (Beyonder>>>>>Marvel universe) that's a contradiction. So Beyonder is infinite, but the problem remains, if he's infinite, why to state he don't have enough power to UNDO IT? well beside that it's a PIS, to explain that i'll use your nice comparison : as we said Beyonder is infinite like an Ipod always connected to a power source. Beyonder used a huge portion of his power to make an eternal multiverse that defy any attempt to bring Death even his attempt, that's like making a second Ipod and connect it to the same power source, now we have two Ipods conneted to the same power source. well make your 1st Ipod work at it's utmost, does it gonna steel all the power and stop the other Ipod from working? no, so we have here an Ipod that don't have enough power to undo the work of the other one. that's the same statement the Beyonder did. he used a huge part of him to create an eternally alive multiverse, to undo that he will have to face that same power that it's his, and it's at work against his will.
That is the only thing that I am a bit confused on but I can be fully content to agree to disagree on this matter, since as I said before - the comics themselves have contradictions.
@Gravy : there's a lot of flaws in your logic, but i'm not going to argue that, let's just skip this "Omnipotence" thing because it's not a mature concept in Marvel stories. debate about it is useless. ^_^
So to put in other words, I found a discrepancy in your logic. And instead of debating about it in what is in fact, a debate forum, we'll skip it.
If we skip this "omnipotence thing" then you must dismiss the idea that everything the Beyonder says is true. All your arguments are illogical; The Beyonder himself stated that killing death took a huge amount of his powers and that statement in itself means his powers are finite. An ipod has a fixed amount of energy it can hold without being connected to a power source, that's a limitation. If the Beyonder is omnipotent, whose power is infinite, no matter how great the expenditure of his powers are, he should never be drained because he is always connected to his power source, in fact, he is his own power source.
If you didn't understand that, even if the Beyonder had a limit on himself, his supply of energy should always be at maximum because his power expenditure would be like subtracting from infinity - you still have infinity. Instead, the beyonder stated himself that he was weakened by using his powers against Death. The beyonder should be like an ipod connected to a power outlet, no matter how much you use it it will always be at the maximum fixed amount of power the battery holds - 100% (The battery being the limitation, and the power outlet being the unlimited power source). But on panel he is obviously weakened.
I'm attacking your logic because you contradict yourself and your idea of the Beyonder and this "end-all be-all" pedestal you put him on is illogical. (Which, @Killemall provided a rebuttal against you failed to compensate.)
Sise-Neg's greatest feat was creating the entire universe (or is that the multiverse aswell? I honestly don't know) based on the accumulation of all the magic from magic users. I don't know Chaos King and Pheonix of the White Crown shouldn't be a problem for Lucy.
The only comparable feat between Sise-Neg and Lucy is that, SN created the universe by himself whereas Lucy did it with his brother. Creating the universe, however, was a two-person job by design and therefore Lucy couldn't solo creation simply by design. In the end, however, Lucy does manage to create his own universe apart from his brother, Michael, so SN's best feat is now matched - sort of.
In my opinion, all that's left is what's based on the comics' hierarchy because generally beings with unheard of or unimaginable power (especially ones that are presumed instead of fully expressed) have power levels that corresponds with their place in the comics Hierarchy. Such as TOAA=Fulcrum>HOTU Thanos>Pre-retcon Beyonder>LT and in this case The Presence> Lucy=Michael>Spectre or whatever. However, it generally appears as though Lucy is only ever inferior to true omnipotence, while SN's power is of universal scaling at best.
I know this isn't an accurate weighing of who beats who, I'm just following the general consensus. If something is superior in terms of sheer power and authority, the equation changes from 2 vs 1+1+1 to 2 vs 1 and 1 and 1 (The numbers representing power scaling).
If Beyonder "has" to limit himself to become part of the multiverse, then that in itself contradicts the idea of Omnipotence. In concept, @Killemall is correct in that the word "omnipotent" Is thrown around in comics rather handily and that exclusively considering Beyonder when he calls himself omnipotent but discredit Thanos for doing the same thing is illogical.
Another contradiction to @the_mighty_Beyonder 's claim; that the "Beyonder is true omnipotence" is that his own imagination is reality and that the universe/multiverse exists only on the fact that the beyonder thinks it is so is contradictory. If reality truly is his imagination, whether he created limitations on his omnipotence of not, nothing would be able to exist beyond the Beyonder's imagination. Meaning that:
1) when he was drunk, the entire universe should also be deformed accordingly to his drunkeness.
2) the Beyonder, on limitations or not, should not have to struggle with any feat simply because all he needs to do is will his desires in order for it to be.
That paragraph and statements directly above only holds true, however, if one should believe everything the Beyonder is saying, but the beyonder is not omniscient, and in all tense and purposes neither is he truly omnipotent. The Beyonder has also been known to be naive and intellectually incompetent supposedly for a being of such calibur, making mistakes (killing death only to resurrect her again) etc. etc.
Only in @Killemall 's interpretation does this make any real sense, that one character's "omnipotence" does not equal another character's "omnipotence". E.g. HOTU Thanos in comparison with Odin who both claim to be omnipotent but are on different power levels. Furthermore, with the plot and intentions of the characters taken into consideration, HOTU Thanos shows much more promise and superiority over the Beyonder.
By the way, killing a conceptual being and then resurrecting the being simply by reintroducing the same concept is different from forcing death into irreducibility, or in other terms "multiplying or dividing by 0", and then recreating all the same concepts from out of nothing including the LT who outclasses abtract/conceptual beings.
To the teen titans or even green arrow, Deathstroke is usually a villain because his vendetta is personal whereas in other comics, he's an anti-hero because he's merely acting as a hired gun. Anti-heroes usually just do bad things without evil intentions so punisher would be an anti-hero. Catwoman is sometimes an anti-hero etc.etc.
plastic man, he was once at the bottom of the ocean for like thousands of years after an adventure in the past and batman found him alive and perfectly healthy.
vandal savage hasn't died or aged yet!
uatu and the watchers, I remember reading once that the only way they die is if they lose the will to live, after which they can "will" themselves back to life afterwards.
Log in to comment