Make him like Cap. He's the greatest superhero, have him be the man instead of a another generic good guy.

I see it like this.

What made the matrix awesome till the last one?

What made Pirates of the Caribbean awesome till the last movie?

What made all 3 Iron Man movies great.

The love interest.

No matter whom you are man or women or child or maybe even your pet dog or cat.

We all deal with maters of the heart the soul the ever present fight to win over a loved on and deal with the issues of life.

I like Wonder Women so hey to me she is his better half his best that he can achieve she demands his trying harder moving faster being more tomorrow then today and that is food for the best damn stories and movies and books ever to grace the web , the news stand and yes even the fan fiction pages of the world wide web.

Time and time again we see the mistakes.

Was the pirate movie about Jack Sparrow.

No it was about Will and his fight to win the hand of the women he loved.

Was Iron Man ever about or will it truly ever be about Tony being a rich playboy with toys?

No it is about this soul on a journey whom wears armor to keep him safe from the world around him.

Pepper Pots breaks through the steal she mends his broken spirit and she heals the wounded warrior making him stronger for it. she says I am stronger then the armor you put up to keep me out.

The matrix is about this to not about made up worlds but about the soul and its journey to find that one person that makes them say. I will save you when the time is right and when all else fails you are my one.

Then three hits and they fail and she dies.

Superman is not about over the top strong super fast I can fly save the world pick up the planet and move on.

It is about Wonder Women alone on a island looking out at a sea of souls a sky of stars and finding him and saying.

No matter how strong you are.

When you fall and you will fall.

I have what it takes to catch you and bring you home.

I have the courage to face your demons with you and beat them back.

The couple may have changed maybe faster then the norm maybe they can fly and just maybe when they have kids I will say. Oh lord have mercy on the babysitting fool left alone with that child. lol

It boils down to they are us only with powers and they are us only with just the right amount of spice to say.

We can just take off and sit on the great wall of china eat a good lunch and go back to work after just a hour or two or a day or three of day dreaming.

They are great stories about us only we can fly and fight and battle the dark like only we wish we could if we where super people. If we did not have kids and jobs and life to attend to.

Open your minds insert the possible and see that impossible is not that impossible after all.

If you simply try.

So you're saying they put 250+ millions to lose money? I'd say take risk but not blindly, these movies take 150+ millions to make, not a small amount and WB/DC is taking many chances, they've just announced 9 DC movies and 5 TV series. TNBA was essentially BTAS 2 and Batman Beyond didn't have Bruce under the cowl, The Batman was out only a for year before Begins. Like I said before I want DC to succeed, to see more characters like Flash, GL and Aquaman but not at the expense of Batman. But like you said let's agree to disagree.

Eh, essentially the same thing in the context of what we're speaking out, and if you think money and big names indicate trying hard, then we have two different definitions of trying hard. I'm not underestimating the risk. I also realize that DC does make money in other ways and that they also have the potential to make much more than they put in. I say go big or go home. Take some chances. Stop relying on the same old things.

Also there were other series besides just The Animated Series. Between the release of Batman and Robin and Batman Begins, we saw The New Batman Adventures, Batman Beyond, and The Batman. Fresh, new ideas were pumped into these series. Not the same old baddie of the week that managed to get some Kryptonite like in Smallville.

And you know, we can't really test that theory. I guess in the end we'll just have to agree to disagree, since we both seem to be very behind our opinions.

First of all its WB not DC and they didn't tease and titillate anyone. You have to try hard to succeed and they tried hard with SR, they've used more money, a bigger name (Bryan Singer), more marketing to make SR work. And I think you are underestimating the risk the here, they can't just go back and try again after losing hundred millions on a project, this movies take more money than we can make in our whole life. Who had more media backing? Not Batman. Superman had Smallville and Superman TAS, Batman had only Batman TAS. Smallville had bigger audience and it actually generated a lot of buzz. Again less Batman doesn't mean more other characters, WB makes 18-20 movies per year, they have no shortage of resources, its not Batman who's stopping them from becoming popular.

So then as far as all the bolded goes, why does DC even bother with anything else and just write Batman? Just seems mean to tease and titillate people with thoughts that they'll do anything good with other characters when that's apparently not the case, don't you think?

Now, onto the actual argument. You say they would've tried hard...but you don't have to try as hard if you're succeeding. So you're telling me they put in a half-arsed effort on Superman Returns and then were really gonna actually try the second time around? That's now how you do things, and not everything is a success. So you go back and you try again later. They waited about eight years between Batman and Robin/Superman Returns before they did more movies but who had more media backing from DC in those time periods? Who is easier to write? Who was getting constant, fresh updates? Batman, and that's the problem. They wanna let everything fall to the wayside and focus on something that doesn't even need help anymore. It mattered it was old because old things don't generate buzz.

I also have to disagree. Less Batman means, more resources to spread throughout the company. That's more guys to work on Supermans' image, more guys to perhaps stop Arrow from becoming Batman with a bow and a hoodie. Would Batman suffer? Probably. Would it hurt his brand? I doubt it. Look at it like this. If DC could create several characters rivaling Batman in popularity, with the tradeoff being 50% less Bat across the board for say...five years, doesn't that seem like a solid payoff?

Not really, it just proves that Batman is more flexible than the others and unlike Batman they can't just sell by putting their names on something, that's why there's no competition, they don't think they will enough to make a good profit. And Batman isn't simply selling, he's selling very very well. Batman's brand name is bigger than DC's brand name right now. And WB would've tried hard enough if SR did good, if GL didn't bomb, if these had done well we would've gotten a Batman/Superman movie and JL movie before Avengers and Flash and Wonder Woman would'v gotten solo movie treatments. Now I'm not saying it was those characters fault that they failed but you can't just say DC isn't trying hard, they have to be more cautious now, when GL was released they tried to push him hard, two animated movies, one animated series, also it had bigger budget than any Batman movie ever, WB hired a great director. Why does it matter if it was old, it ran for 10 seasons because they was a big audience, Batman had nothing like that before Begins, only Batman TAS and Batman and Robin almost destroyed his reputation. He wasn't even pushed as much as Superman back then, SR was marketed more heavily than Begins.And honestly I don't care much about these people who are asking for less Batman because less Batman won't make any difference. I'm one of those guys who wants DC is succeed, to give other characters more chances but not at the expense of Batman.

It kind of does. No competition means you're not outselling anyone. You're simply selling, which is a good thing, I'm not discrediting the wealth Batman brings DC, and DC may be trying...but simply put, they're not trying hard enough. If they were, Superman would have...something! Going on right now. Wonder Woman would have something for fans to latch onto. Instead we get Batman: Assault on Arkham and Batman: Arkham Knight. How is that trying?

My point regarding Smallville is it was OLD. After 10 years, I think fans deserve something a little more, don't you? Or how would you like to watch another 10 years of Beware the Batman? Begins had Batman, DCs' biggest money-maker. Really, as much has he'd been pushed beforehand, what more did it need?

And maybe you are right? Maybe the minority is asking for less Batman. But can you really blame them, with how much they've had to sit through over the years? And it's not like they have much say in the matter anyway. You expect they simply sit down and keep quiet about how they feel? I think we all get how much money he makes them, but there are some people that simply don't care and are tired of him. But because they're in the minority it doesn't matter, I suppose.

Not just Iron Man or Superman, which fictional character has as much presence in movies, games, animated and live action TV shows, comics and merch sales combined right now? Saying there's no competition doesn't change anything, there's no competition because they know others can't make money only by putting their names in something like Batman does. You're telling me not to discredit animated movies because they generate buzz but you yourself are discrediting a 10 year long TV series which had far more fanfollowing than a animated series does, what did Begins had to back it up? Live actions TV series has bigger audience than animated TV series. The buzz of animated movies don't carry over to live action movies. And the minority is asking for less Batman. Anyways I wasn't the one that brought up Batman, I'm just saying that DC is trying.

Right, thanks for the correction. I must have had it right the first time cause I erased and redid that part again. My bad.

But you have to admit, there isn't really any competition to Batman in most other media. Marvel sucks in animation they only really make more Batman animated series, in the games they're usually Batman-centric. It's not like Superman, Wonder Woman, or Iron Man has a competing game. So of course he'll outsell his non-existent competition.

And in all honesty, yeah. But think about what Begins and TDK had in common. They have the big money-maker. Of course they were going to do great. However, I don't think you can discount the fact that MoS was a financial success. People wanna compare him to the guy that has tons of other media backing him. What did Superman have before MoS? Smallville? And logically, a Superman film is going to have a bigger budget than a Batman film. You think all that delicious destruction was going to come cheap? Superman is naturally, I think, more expensive to pull off, but I thought the outcome was worth the investment.

And you can say the Animated films don't mean much, but if the story is good, then let the fans see it. I'm not saying it will change perception of Superman overnight. But it's a start, and that's all I want is a start. Something different. Make a little money off what you're good at (animation,) and generate some buzz for the character. All this attention Aquaman is getting for his debut in the DCamU for Throne of Atlantis is what I'm talking about. That buzz then carries over to Dawn of Justice. That's what you do. You generate buzz and get people talking. Superman? No buzz. Batman? Eternal buzz.

Nobody is asking DC to stop pushing Batman. Peoples arms are going numb beating that horse. What the apparent minority is asking for isn't less Batman, but more everyone else. More Shazam, more Superman, more Green Lantern, more Question, more Arrow, more...something...anything! Like I said, we get it. It's Batmans' Universe, and everyone else is just chilling in it.

And then again, why should they bother. You're right. Batman makes money. That's the bottom line. DC could probably discontinue every other comic and still pull a profit by devoting everything towards the work of Gotham and it's mythos and it's characters. Maybe all this is a moot point. It's just a shame when you think about what they have that they don't use.

But that's none of my business.

I think you meant 'is Batman making money because he's pushed or is he pushed because he is making money', I'd say both but the latter more than the former, people definitely want to see more Batman, that's why he makes more money than any character in every type entertainment media, DC will stop pushing Batman if he stops making money. And DC does try to give other characters chances. They gave GL a try, it bombed, they heavily marketed MoS and it had bigger budget than both Begins and TDK and it made only 660 mils, that's why Batman's in the sequel. Animated movies don't matter that much really, and the last Superman movie was Unbound and after that only two Batman movies came out and both them weren't really about Batman. DC recently announced 9 DC movies, I'm guessing at least 5 are non Batman movies, I think there's going to be 4 new non Batman DC TV shows. And that last bolded part, that was funny lol. The thing is they won't stop using Batman and that shouldn't be your problem, if you don't want that then don't buy anything related to Batman, all you can hope for is that they also promote other characters and they are doing that. Anyways I pretty much agreed with you first post, only except 'push him for a solo movie that you actually advertise?' part because I thought you meant MoS.

Well I haven't been online for one of these in a while, so whilst I sit here on my girlfriends couch, totally ignoring whatever it is she's saying at this very moment (something about her sister?), I shall write about my feelings on Superman.

Many have argued that different times require a different representation of certain characters to adapt to that particular time and people; to be malleable to societies whims and appeal to the general audience.

I repudiate that stance based upon who Superman has evolved to be: a symbol of hope. A symbol of hope does not need to be cool, he only needs to inspire. Ironically, those very inspirational qualities make him cool. He doesn't need to be anything other than an optimistic, inspirational, morally righteous guy. Interesting storytelling occurs when you take that same guy and put him through things that challenge him emotionally, intellectually and physically (this IS comics).

You don't have to make him hold back less. Admittedly when I was a new reader I wanted to see him whoop ass, but after falling in love with who the character is rather than what the character can do. One of the coolest and most charming things about him is that he will let you knock him into space and still ask, "What's wrong? What can I do to help?". Having him hold back less turns him into a poor mans Mr Majestic, ironic I know. Supermans identifying qualities, as evident in All Star, Birthright and a TON of his early 2000s story written by Schultz, Kelley and Loeb, is his optimism and hope. Making him cut loose makes him aggressive and Superman's aggression should be reserved for very special circumstances

Optimism is crucial to Superman. At his core he's a guy who wants the best outcome in every situation. He's a normal

Guy who wants the best for everyone and does everything he can to facilitate those outcomes. Superman is the guy who asks, "how are you?" And genuinely cares about your response.

And as far as taking away any powers....try it.....and I.....will...destroy you.

Cheers

I mean as far as all the released material. Most of it is related to which character again? And I've asked this question before. Is Batman making money because he's pushed or is he making money because he's pushed? It's not like they've pushed anyone else really so we can't test that theory.

Even without DoJ included, what about the animated features. Like I said, Batman has/is getting. Like I said, Assault on Arkham (which looked more like a Suicide Squad movie, but for some reason of course had to have Batman,) Son of Batman (which had just as much Batman as it did Robin,) Batman vs. Robin, just to name a few. Meanwhile, when was the last time Superman got a decent animated release that DC publicized? The last animated feature, not counting War, I remember was Public Enemies which was a team-up with Batman.

Even the biggest Batman fan has to admit, he's got way more going for him than most other characters. Yeah, we get it. We all surrender to the fact that Batman is truly the most amazing, fantastical, money-maker in the history of money-makers. He's the most beloved Superhero the world has ever known or ever will know, and (with prep time,) could bring multiversal peace on a scale that nobody could ever dream of. Praise be The Bat!

So is it too much to ask for a little Static? Some Cyborg? Maybe some Power Girl or Zatanna? Or how about that Superman character? Pretty sure a good hour-long movie could be made for some of these characters...

Then why did you say solo movie? DoJ is a Batman and Superman movie, and the movie is 2 years away, the marketing hasn't even begun yet and we've already seen the new Superman in MoS but we don't know anything about the new Batman and how it will differ from TDKT, we'll see Superman too but you have to agree that Batman brings in more cash and audience than Superman so WB will obviously put Batman in the front and center, that doesn't mean Superman won't be in the promotions, the main selling point of the movie is this is a Batman and Superman movie.

@rustyroy: Yes. I was talking about this year. Even as far as DoJ is concerned, you could argue we've seen more Batman than Superman.

Never said it was, just pointing out that MoS was heavily promoted.

One movie is hardly enough.

Superheroes have to remember this.

MoS was one of the most advertised movie of last year.

All of the above.

Just have him be himself, that's why we all love him.

Here's a tip for making Superman appeal to a mass audience. Actually put him out there for the audience to see.

For the love of God, what clown does a guy need to beat up repeatedly to get a push? Push him for a video game, push him for an Animated series, push him for a solo movie that you actually advertise? The only real characters DC has bothered with any kind of respectable push have been Green Arrow and Batman, and let's face it, Arrow acts more like Batman than Green Arrow.

The Arkham Titles, Batman vs. Robin, Son of Batman, Batman: Assault on Arkham, two new books based in the (here's a shocker,) Batman mythos, and top billing in Batman v. Superman. This isn't me complaining about all the Batman stuff mind you. What I'm saying is, it all comes down to publicizing. How much of these kinds of projects have gone to Superman, or anyone in the Superman family? You know the most exposure Superman has gotten? That little clip they showed to celebrate his 75th.

Wanna make something popular? Show it off.

Its all in the consistency.

If DC pulls it together and decides in a clear direction and characterazation for the long run, Superman is gonna start having a stable and consistent fanbase. Of course good creators are needed too but thats a given.

Good writer, simple as that.

A good alternative to the Zod scene would have Clark badly hurt himself trying to block Zods eyes, showing how far he's willing to go before he lets anyone die and then Zod calls him a fool/coward/whatever for not bringing himself to kill him and someone gets the drop on him with some earlier established plot device and says and that's why we truct him or something establishing why he's the good guy, perhaps the plot device could have been a 2 way transporter the Krytonians used and Zods just happened to be linked up with someone sent to the Phantom Zone.

I think the writers of Smallville were on the right track during Season 8, presenting us the darker and colder version of Superman...

only to backtrack later for the sake of canon.

For me he is too overpowered I think at least he should not have superspeed and its really stupid that he can lift planets

Simply put make him more quirky and unpredictable, than a saint. Have him be a jock or even a smug super on Guy levels, but simply make him the kindest representation of a human being ever conceived. Let him be Gokuish as well, his principles and emotions before ideals and purpose.

Superman from Smallvile also has been a character I see being better than most incarnations I've seen in the media. Supes also needs to be asagressive as batman is in battle, that's one thing I see from Batman implemented into Superman, Superman at all his core is a hero god, let him punish as a god should not this jesus wannabe pacisfist jedi knight, make him like Cap, a fighter who fights for peace on earth.

Nice to see that new users with taste exist. Welcome to the vine mate :-)

I don't take this blog seriously anymore...

I don't know what I was doing when I wrote it.

The answer isn't making him gritty, not holding back, and having less powers. The answer is to have a better writer. There's nothing wrong with the Superman character. You just need to have a competent writer who understands the character.

..Unchained was a good start in the right direction, the main villain is Wraith who is more powerful than superman himself..shame its been so delayed....Action Comics was interesting, Superman had to use his brains to work out how to beat Ghost Soldier.....but yes I understand where the OP is coming from. Many of my friends say Superman is simply boring, too powerful, only challenged by kryptonite and not enough personality. They prefer more "relatable" characters like Wolverine, Batman and Spiderman.

I think getting a good writer will help. Nothing wrong with the big guy himself.

I made my little cousin a Superman by making him watch MoS. Raising him right.

Probably because some of his old comics are cheesy and he's a bit over powered and he doesn't have many villains that are stronger than him which makes him seem even more overpowered.

The fact that he has no tighty reds over his pants does a whole lot of good.

Here's the thing with Superman from a general public standpoint, you can't make him too gritty or it's not Superman anymore but on the other hand most of them will complain about him being too much of a goody two shoes if you don't. It's a double edge sword, and you can take away some of his powers or make him a little weaker but the whole appeal of the character (to most people) is that he's this insanely powerful alien, I'm not sure what can be done to make him easier to relate to because lets face it a lot of non comic fans already have their minds set when it comes to certain characters and it'll be almost impossible to change that after a character has been a certain way for so many years.

Make him go outside earth make him explore universe doing battle against cosmic beings and gods that have threaten the universe and also gain new powers.I just want him to be more powerful like the All Star Superman!!!!

@AtPhantom said:

There's nothing wrong with Superman.

You make him appeal to a modern audience by understanding the nature of Superman and presenting it in a grounded, real way that's still entertaining. You show Clark Kent doing investigation and being a reporter and then using Superman to serve out justice because it's the right thing and nobody else can do it. You present his villains as twisted mirrors that reflect elements of Superman amplified to their darkest levels and construct a narrative about this ying-yang dichotomy (Superman vs Lex Luthor, Superman vs Zod, Superman vs Brainiac). You never forget that Superman is not dark and you play and have fun with the fact that he isn't Batman and can never be Batman - he's a different character with different adventures. He works in a world with a bright sun shining down warmly. He saves the day with a smile and you present him as being a benevolent, humble and incredibly powerful figure working in the best interests of the people who can't help themselves because they're the ones who need help the most.

Make him fight more powerful enemies.

Have different ways for him to use his powers. He is so overpowered, there is infinite possibilities we could do with his powers.

Too many powers? Not really...

i dont get all these people saying sayin superman shouldn't be changed i think that they need to rework his whole multimedia image and take it back to golden age like the did with action comics, supes was the first badass who used to put people in their place then they made him a sissy, if you want to appeal to modern audiences, he has to be taken back to who he was not just in action comics but across the whole superman mythos, we live in a cynical time where the truth is always exposed and people now understand that those who run things dont give a crap about truth and justice, and superman should reflect that a man with all those powers in a corrupt world he should be in the gray where sometimes he loses do to political reason and then some times he gets one over the system

@Frozen: I know,i just point out what i believe about this method.I didn't say that you were wrong neither i judged you, i just said that i don't agree and i wouldn't like to see this in the character.

Well I beg to differ but Superman has always been a perfect SuperHero, Superman doesn't need any change, and I completely disagree about taking away his powers Superman is supposed to be most powerful Superhero and it always has to be this way.

What everyone need is the good innovative stories and good writers for Superman comic books or movies, and Scott Lobdell have also answered everyone's question about why they thinks him boring and Why Superman is still most awesome superhero.

And It has been long time(6 years) after last Superman movie(Superman Returns) released, believe me when the Next superman movie "Man Of Steel" will come Superman is going to rock the modern superhero world and Don't ever forget that small kids still loves Superman, when I have asked any kid almost 7 out of 10 kids likes (or knows/ or wants to be) only Superman.

MyOpinion The problem is that when superman came out very few people had or would ever think about aliens. To them a guy who could shoot lasers out of his eyes was the pinnacle of strange but in modern times we've got a lot of human characters who can do many of superman's powers. Superman's been parodied so much while not really going any fundamental changes himself that it's kind of hard to separate him from the back. Everything that made the character original in the 30s has become so overused by the rest of the comic book industry. He is somewhat of a walking Superhero cliche really.

I kind of don't know how you fix superman in that regard without fundamentally changing him because of the fact that what fundamentally makes him him is so overused and played out.

Also another problem pointed out to be by someone here is his rogue's gallery. While Lex Luthor is great he's not quite as interesting (at least to me) as say The Joker or Venom and to my previous point even Luthor's shtick of the evil businessman is rather trite in modern times.

Of course that's just my opinion and we all have our own.

I will note that I did enjoy Superman vs The Elite but that was mostly because of Manchester Black who was an amazing character.

@Squalleon said:

@Frozen: I will have to diasgree with you in every posible way!

Superman is a good natured stronghold who fights for truth and Justice.He is a beacon of hope as some said before.

What you suggesting is pretty much make him like batman.By making him grittier and weaker we take back everything that makes the hero who he is,you make him just another superhero,while superman is supposed to be THE SUPERHERO.Superman appeals to the modern reader the problem is that 21st century's best advertisment is the cinema.Make a good movie out of him and everything changes.Also under a good writer who understands Superman,no one will complain about the character ex. Geoff Johns Action comics, the powers and personality of superman didn't affect the awesomeness of the character,on the other hand we have the grittier and more alienated Superman of Brian Azzarello in for tommorow.Azzarello is a good writer but he doesn't understand the Mythology behind superman.

P.S. The best portrayal of superman is probably All Star Superman.

I've already said that it was a suggestion. That is all.

@Frozen said:

Superman Returns was a mess of a movie. But from what I recall, the promotion and advertising for Superman Returns was much better. There hadn't been a Superman movie for 19 years until Superman Returns. I agree that Superman is a great character, but I was just brainstorming a few changes that could be made, in my opinion that is. Man of Steel should be good however, I hope that turns out good. I'm not saying for the changes to be made or anything of the sort, they are just a few suggestions. I felt the The Dark Knight Returns did a similar thing, if you read the story, it seems like the complete opposite of what Batman is. Batman was now more violent, gritty and basically the Clint Eastwood type, everything that you don't expect Batman to be, yet the story is regarded as a classic.

Just my two cents.

Now that's not true. Batman (campy sixties aside) always leaned towards a noir, grim attitude. TDKR was simply playing it up to an extreme. This is precisely the opposite of what Superman is. Also, The point in TDKR, as it is in Kingdom Come, is that there is a reason why Batman acted like that. Both stories accepted that these were not normal Batman and Superman, but Batman and Superman warped by the world and events in order to play out an endgame, which is basically what both stories were. They were the endings to their mythoses; They were never intended to be the normal state of affairs.

What you're proposing then, is basically what the industry did in the late eighties and nineties. You're attributing TDKR's success not to the tight story, powerful message and excellent characterization, but simply to the grit and violence of it. There's a reason why that didn't work out for the industry, and why of all the characters, Superman resisted that period the most.

@Cap10nate said:

It's a sad day when you have to make a character a worse person in order to make them appealing to audiences.

i dont know why but i LOLed at this.

It's a sad day when you have to make a character a worse person in order to make them appealing to audiences.

@Frozen: I will have to diasgree with you in every posible way!

Superman is a good natured stronghold who fights for truth and Justice.He is a beacon of hope as some said before.

What you suggesting is pretty much make him like batman.By making him grittier and weaker we take back everything that makes the hero who he is,you make him just another superhero,while superman is supposed to be THE SUPERHERO.Superman appeals to the modern reader the problem is that 21st century's best advertisment is the cinema.Make a good movie out of him and everything changes.Also under a good writer who understands Superman,no one will complain about the character ex. Geoff Johns Action comics, the powers and personality of superman didn't affect the awesomeness of the character,on the other hand we have the grittier and more alienated Superman of Brian Azzarello in for tommorow.Azzarello is a good writer but he doesn't understand the Mythology behind superman.

P.S. The best portrayal of superman is probably All Star Superman.