fodigg

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What would people think of an all-black cast of MIGHTY AVENGERS?

Concept:

An Avengers roster with all-black membership, assembled in addition to other teams for the purpose of promoting Marvel's black characters.

Explanation:

The thought of a book/team like this hit me during this thread here, which was about creating a mostly POC Justice League. (Something like what Milestone did where they set out to create a very diverse group of heroes.) In that thread, the idea of an all POC super team was raised, and I argued that such a team would be justified and beneficial. I think there are more than enough POC comic book heroes, or even more specifically black heroes, to create a quality all-POC or all-black team. And I think that if people doubt that, then it might just be worth doing. I know not everyone will agree.

The point would be to show—not that you shouldn't have whites or that teams should be segregated by race—but that there are so many worthy black characters that you should have no problem putting such a team together. Too often we see limits on how many black characters you can have on page at one time lest it be deemed a "black book" or a "minoriteam". Or, when a traditionally white mantle or team-slot gets passed on to a POC character, we have to hear that such a character was added only because of their race (see: Cyborg forums). So why not just answer these objections head on?

This kind of book--highlighting a particular demographic--has already been done with some success with all-female books: AME-COMI GIRLS, HER-OES, BIRDS OF PREY, the pending FEARLESS DEFENDERS, and others. This just shifts the focus to combating racial disparity rather than gender disparity. As for "why Avengers?" I just chose Avengers because the previous thread was DC, so why not do Marvel? And any old name will do (as long as it's not some sort of pun) so I went with "Mighty Avengers" which isn't currently being used.

Finally, this book would not be "about" being black. Certainly the topic of race would and should come up, but the point is to show that you can create a great Avengers book that stands up alongside any other Avengers book, but with an all-black cast. And that doing so let's you showcase some of these characters that for whatever reason aren't normally put together in one room.

Members:

Implementation:

I think the best way to do a book like this is to approach the reasons for getting such a book together directly. I don't think you gain anything by dancing around it or trying to think up a reason why a group of all-black superheroes would just happen to wind up working together. The fans would argue about such a book, so make the characters in the book mirror those arguments as well.

So, I would have Falcon and War Machine (prominent in past or upcoming Marvel films), set out to create a new roster of all-black heroes for the same reasons as the book would exist in the first place: to simply show these heroes in a context where they're working together instead of as members of other teams where they are almost always the minority.

In this book I'd make character development a priority, which is a good idea for any ensemble book, but especially for a book where the goal is to promote characters you don't want them to fall flat. I'd also take the opportunity to dig into the rogues galleries of the various characters and highlight some classic Avengers villains that we haven't seen as much of in a while.

Opening scene:

For the opening scene, I'd do a televised interview with a conservative pundit or pundit stand-in. This would provide a context where it'd be appropriate to get any objections to the concept of such a book/team out in the open and provide opposing viewpoints, if not actual settling the matter.

  • Q: Won't this just promote segregation? What's next, all-Latino? all-Asian? All-gay?
  • Falcon: No, the point is to increase representation. As for similar teams, would that be a bad thing?
  • Q: What about all-white? Wouldn't that be called racist?
  • Falcon: We already have that in some places (make up some state-level initiative teams as examples maybe). This team is a response to the status quo which already provides imbalanced coverage and membership of black superheroes. If we were an all-white group and were forming a team, you wouldn't bother interviewing us about that.
  • Q: I might if the point of the team was to be all white.
  • Falcon: Well that's not—
  • Q: Won't this decrease the effectiveness of the superhero community by taking time away from other teams? And War Machine, aren't you still active in some capacity with the military? Won't this take away from your commitments there?
  • War Machine: This team is in addition to other duties, and those who were too busy to handle another commitment did not join.
  • Q: Won't this put potentially under-qualified heroes on an Avengers team, reducing your effectiveness and possibly getting people killed? Shouldn't the Avengers be held to a strictly merit-based standard?
  • Falcon: There are more than enough qualified black superheroes--and Avengers specifically--that we can create a rounded and effective team from just them. Nobody is on this team simply because they are black.
  • War Machine: The military is also held to a merit-based standard, and yet we've had great success increasing opportunity for under-represented groups. They don't put people in the line of fire unless they're ready, and neither will we.
  • Falcon: And, of course, we will work with anyone if a specific situation calls for it. If we really need Iron Man or Thor or Captain America for something, they're all just a phone call away.
  • Q: Is this even necessary? Is anyone opposed to this?
  • War Machine: No, it's not necessary.
  • Falcon: *side-eyes*
  • War Machine: And look, I took some convincing myself because I don't think it's necessary. But, I do think good can come from it. Another team of superheroes doing good isn't bad.
  • Q: Doesn't this politicize superheroes? People want superheroes to be like first responders--police, fire fighters, EMTs--real heroes who are there to help with no political motivation. They don't necessarily want the NAACP to show up when a monster is attacking New York.
  • Falcon: We can be just as effective at both. Our point is to do the job well, first and foremost, and the message comes from that. That's our 'political message', that we are here and we do the job well.
  • Q: Doesn't this just give the impression that black superheroes need promotion? So doesn't this create the very problem it's supposedly trying to fix? We just re-elected the first black president, is focusing on race now really in anyone's best interest?
  • Falcon: *eye roll*
  • War Machine: *raised eyebrow*

Afterward:

  • War Machine: Well that went...well?
  • Falcon: What a jackass!

Possible story hooks:

  • As Falcon and War Machine try to assert control of the team, tensions develop with other members who start to feel like the whole team is actually an attempt by SHIELD to bring unaffiliated heroes in line with their agenda. (Concern is especially voiced by Blade and Power Man.)
  • Ex-spouses Storm and Black Panther deal with the very real frustrations of membership on the same team, but both are too proud to walk away and let the other "win". Frenzy starts hitting on BP to piss Storm off. Storm is pissed off.
  • Power Man is also pissed off because he feels like people are treating him as an upstart wannabe and that they were really trying to recruit Luke Cage (which maybe they were). He's also being attacked by the media because he's young and brash and not as well known as the others.
  • Storm's involvement in X-Force is revealed, at least within the team. Falcon and War Machine are conflicted as they view this as true vigilantism while the rest kinda shrug it off. Especially Blade who is basically like "Look, I kill vampires in my free time. I kill people for catching a disease. Why do you guys not think that's weird? If you walk into a room and you don't see me, you should probably assume I'm out murdering people for being vampires."
  • A bloodied Captain Britain and Spitfire show up on their doorstep looking for Blade. Baron Blood is back again and making a nuisance. (I'll admit this is pretty much me just wanting MI:13 back.)
  • Black Panther sees a chance to get revenge on Namor for the events of AvX and takes it. The team, and especially Storm, has to choose sides in a potential war between Atlantis and Wakanda.
  • Doctor Doom. Because he's still pissed over what happened in DOOMWAR (which was awesome).
  • Various classic Avengers villains that haven't been seen as much lately: Nightmare, Ultron, Kang, Count Nefaria, etc.

So, what does everyone think? Is this a good idea? Is this just tokenism writ large? Would this book sell? I just get frustrated with some elements of comic book fandom who cry foul at any attempt to increase diversity or showcase POC characters. I think a book like this would combat that mentality within the comic book community.

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daredevil21134

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Epic Team!

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green_skaar

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No problem with it, I love Mighty Avengers. They aren't all black if you consider Superior Spider-man a part of them.

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fodigg

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Edited By fodigg

@starbrander said:

I personally wouldn't care if it didn't suck.

Some stipulations: just make the characters normal. No afros, no jazz music fans, no ebonics, no chip on shoulder, no "Gonna get your sucka, jive turkey" dialog.

Take someone like Captain America...and make him black. Everything else about is as it was other than skin color. Now do that for a whole team of heroes, and then the audience will respond well.

I think that's reasonable as long as the concern is "don't make it a stereotype" and not "don't make it too black". I'm not saying the latter is what you meant, just putting that out there for clarity. I don't think this sort of book should be afraid to approach the subject, just try not make it a cover-to-cover lecture.

I think the Milestone comics (e.g., Static, Icon, Hardware, Xombi) did a great job at incorporating character heritage into the story without making them into stereotypes or failing to deliver on fight-the-supervillain as the paramount plot arcs.

Icon did an especially good job addressing stereotypes by outright lampooning some of the blaxsploitation/token characters Marvel has put out over the years with their captain ersatzLuke Cage, Buck Wild.

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When he's first introduced and Icon and Rocket can't even understand what he's saying because he talks like no human being of any culture ever has on the planet (and Icon is a literal alien), is one of the funniest scenes in the series. Over the years he also supposedly went by Buck Goliath, Buck Lightning, and Jim Crow just to lampoon a couple more comic book offerings while they were at it. Then they turned that around again by having Icon defend the character at his funeral:

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Of course he rose from the grave as Buck Voodoo immediately after the speech.

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However, this is a case where I feel having the superhero comic address the issue directly elevated the quality of the comic while still putting the business of super-heroics front-and-center. So I don't think that the book would need to avoid the subject entirely.

And I'll say it once again, Dwayne McDuffie is missed dearly in the world of comics.

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Starbrander

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I personally wouldn't care if it didn't suck.

Some stipulations: just make the characters normal. No afros, no jazz music fans, no ebonics, no chip on shoulder, no "Gonna get your sucka, jive turkey" dialog.

Take someone like Captain America...and make him black. Everything else about is as it was other than skin color. Now do that for a whole team of heroes, and then the audience will respond well.

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THORSON

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@thorson said:

i'd love that.

their main villain would be the Kosmic Krater Krown

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THORSON

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i'd love that.

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fodigg

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Edited By fodigg

@maddpanda531 said:

All-New Marvel Now proudly presents...The All-New, All-Black "Dark Avengers"!

Yeah, that's the pun I was worried about with this. Taking the suggestion seriously, though, it might be even harder to field a respectable all-black cast of a Dark Avengers squad from the pool of avengers villains. The enemies list for avengers just has the following:

That is seriously weak.

Okay, so I'll look at a broader pool of villains. Hmm. Has a lot of reformed villains on it. Not too many women. A lot of Spider-Man villains for some reason. More than a few "generic member of X evil society" too. Well, let's take a crack.

I think that's an interesting team. It totally fails at mimicking former Avengers rosters, which is what "Dark Avengers" is known for, but choices are limited.

I have no idea why they'd work together, unfortunately, although it'd have to be an interesting conceit if it managed to convince Cardiac to join (or Tempo, I guess). I do like the idea of putting Tombstone and his daughter on the same team. That could be a lot of fun. I like Prowler although to be fair that's mostly because of the recent Ultimate-U version. I've read some stuff with Moses Magnum that I liked. Thunderball—well, it'd be nice to let him develop himself a bit more since he's supposed to be a smart guy but we only ever see him smashing stuff. Menace, however, man, no idea. I included her because I didn't want to over-crowd the team with dudes and I like the idea of a "goblin" being on the Dark Avengers considering Osborn founded the team, but no clue why she'd be there. She's crazy. I suppose that offers its own story opportunities though.

I wanted to get Alex Wilder on there somehow, but I think he's still dead and I'm not sure the no-costume thing would work for the Dark Avengers. Barracuda I seriously considered, but outside a "MAX" imprint title he may not be as entertaining. I'm a huge Frenzy fan, but I don't want to see her back on a villains team at this point. (At least Cardiac is still working in the shadows.) There are lots of Black Panther villains I could have used, but so many of them seem like a stereotype. Or generic (although to be fair, Thor is generic). Of those, Erik Killmonger is probably most deserving of inclusion.

Wait, five Spider-Man villains on there? This could almost double as a version of the Sinister Six.

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Maddpanda531

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All-New Marvel Now proudly presents...The All-New, All-Black "Dark Avengers"!

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GrenadeFlow

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Damn Marvel was watching this site

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InnerVenom123

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Holllly crap.

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Spydey

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Part of me is like, "Yea, they could do it because they have like two all women's teams." But then, just like others have said, it'll probably backfire.

Society's more sensitive to racial issues than they are to gender.

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Mega_spidey01

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i'm looking forward to mighty avengers !

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knighthood

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Edited By knighthood

@fodigg said:

@doctorholmes241 said:

Oh, it looked like spider-Ock to me

Oh no, I'm sure that it is spidey-ock, I was just forwarding a silly theory. Although now that I think about it, didn't the end of Spider-Men hint that there was a 616 Miles Morales and he was a public figure?

Since you are dropping names, it does seem like the Ultimate Universe is being shaken up quite a bit with the 616 Galactus and Cataclysm. Why couldn't Morales just pop into the 616 and join?

I'd like to know who Ronin is too. Plus I keep hearing people mention Spider-Hero. Miles could likely be any of those three characters.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/16/hero-worship-miles-morales-should-be-the-spider-man

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knighthood

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@fodigg said:

@Mutant God said:

I say sure but they need a token white character

Any reason why? I mean, tokenism is something to be avoided, right?

Although you could pretty easily add Cloak and have Dagger as an unofficial extra member if you really wanted that. Cloak would be a useful addition to the team, but he doesn't seem to do anything without Dagger involved.

Holy crap is Marvel just looking at CV forums for ideas. Cloak and Dagger would be a great starting point. I really like Blue Marvel so I'm glad he is being used in the actually Mighty Avengers. Monica Rambeau too.

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Doctorholmes241

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Oh

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fodigg

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Oh, it looked like spider-Ock to me

Oh no, I'm sure that it is spidey-ock, I was just forwarding a silly theory. Although now that I think about it, didn't the end of Spider-Men hint that there was a 616 Miles Morales and he was a public figure?

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Doctorholmes241

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Oh, it looked like spider-Ock to me

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fodigg

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Doctorholmes241

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In the promo it looks like they had spider-man, he's white

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fodigg

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@yung_ancient_one said:

@furiousweasel: Are you familiar with the newest incarnation of the Mighty Avengers? It is a mostly minority members Avengers. The consist of mostly Black and or Hispanic Heroes. I think Superior Spidey and maybe Ronin will be the only "whiteboys" on the team. If I am not mistaken.

Leading to my question: Who is ROnin? Is it a male character? Yes they already "accidentally" admitted that. What if they're lying? Maybe. Who do you think it is? There are rumors saying its Eli aka Patriot. I think that's a great idea. I also thought what if it's Chang Shi. I think that would be AWEsome too.

( + )

I hope Ronin is not someone who already has a well liked established costumed identity (Moon Knight for instance) It would be cool it was someone who wasn't very well known like Bengal.

I wouldn't mind them using this chance to bring back Echo.

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FuriousWeasel

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Edited By FuriousWeasel

@furiousweasel: Are you familiar with the newest incarnation of the Mighty Avengers? It is a mostly minority members Avengers. The consist of mostly Black and or Hispanic Heroes. I think Superior Spidey and maybe Ronin will be the only "whiteboys" on the team. If I am not mistaken.

Leading to my question: Who is ROnin? Is it a male character? Yes they already "accidentally" admitted that. What if they're lying? Maybe. Who do you think it is? There are rumors saying its Eli aka Patriot. I think that's a great idea. I also thought what if it's Chang Shi. I think that would be AWEsome too.

( + )

I hope Ronin is not someone who already has a well liked established costumed identity (Moon Knight for instance) It would be cool it was someone who wasn't very well known like Bengal.

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TheGodofThunder

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Edited By TheGodofThunder

@fodigg: Yeah, I'm loving that run, but it seems more like an equal partnership between him, reed and tony than BP having actual leadership.

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tg1982

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For me, I like them because they are cool characters. I like the Falcon, White Tiger, Spectrum and Luke Cage. I don't know much about Blue Marvel and Power-Man, but I'm excited to learn about them. They're like new characters for me.

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fodigg

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@fodigg: My point was that although there are obviously enough black characters to make up a team, most teams have more white characters purely because there are more of them, writers don't make a conscious decision to do so (Well not that I know of anyway) Making a decision to pick or discard characters based or their ethnicity and not because they are good characters seems dumb to me.

Though I would buy a series if it was good, the 'all female' team is also silly IMHO unless it's for a very specific mission lasting for a very limited time.

That seems fair. I guess I just feel like there are so many cool toys in the Marvel box, so to speak, that you should never run out of good options even with these limitations on there.

While I agree promoting quality characters is a good idea especially if they are underused, promoting characters just to fill a 'not white' quota is not a good idea. You have to remember that the majority of the best loved/fan favourite characters are white, that's not a bad thing or in anyway racist, it's just the truth. Marvel for instance, most of their big sellers (Spider-Man, Daredevil, FF, Hulk, Iron Man, Thor and the original X-Men etc) were created back in the sixties by Stan Lee.

There are untold awesome and sorely underused characters out there that need more attention and yes I would be annoyed if I realized decent, interesting characters with more fans were getting ignored in favour of others because of race.

Well, that's the issue in a nutshell. The established characters are mostly golden and silver age ones, and they're all white, mostly male. And they have the most fans and industry promotion, to the point where they get multiple titles that exponentially increase the white male character load. I'm not asking to cancel all books starring Wolverine and Batman, just, you know, give us a book or two where we're not afraid to put more than 3 black characters on the same page, because it never seems to happen. The recently announced Mighty Avengers is exciting for me because that's what they're doing. (They didn't, admittedly, need to field an all-black roster to do so, but then the purpose in that was to make my point explicit.)

Leading to my question: Who is ROnin? Is it a male character? Yes they already "accidentally" admitted that. What if they're lying? Maybe. Who do you think it is? There are rumors saying its Eli aka Patriot. I think that's a great idea. I also thought what if it's Chang Shi. I think that would be AWEsome too.

( + )

Shang-Chi is a badass and now I really want that, but not as Ronin. It would be irritating to me if they stuck a Chinese character in a Japanese-named mantle like that.

Nah. While I am all for more black characters, the Avengers are fun for it's diversity, whether it's in their powers, personality, or race. A team lead by black panther would be pretty sweet though.

The current Hickman run of New Avengers is led by BP and it IS awesome.

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z3ro180

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TheGodofThunder

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Nah. While I am all for more black characters, the Avengers are fun for it's diversity, whether it's in their powers, personality, or race. A team lead by black panther would be pretty sweet though.

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Yung ANcient One

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@furiousweasel: Are you familiar with the newest incarnation of the Mighty Avengers? It is a mostly minority members Avengers. The consist of mostly Black and or Hispanic Heroes. I think Superior Spidey and maybe Ronin will be the only "whiteboys" on the team. If I am not mistaken.

Leading to my question: Who is ROnin? Is it a male character? Yes they already "accidentally" admitted that. What if they're lying? Maybe. Who do you think it is? There are rumors saying its Eli aka Patriot. I think that's a great idea. I also thought what if it's Chang Shi. I think that would be AWEsome too.

( + )

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FuriousWeasel

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Edited By FuriousWeasel

@fodigg: My point was that although there are obviously enough black characters to make up a team, most teams have more white characters purely because there are more of them, writers don't make a conscious decision to do so (Well not that I know of anyway) Making a decision to pick or discard characters based or their ethnicity and not because they are good characters seems dumb to me.

Though I would buy a series if it was good, the 'all female' team is also silly IMHO unless it's for a very specific mission lasting for a very limited time.

While I agree promoting quality characters is a good idea especially if they are underused, promoting characters just to fill a 'not white' quota is not a good idea. You have to remember that the majority of the best loved/fan favourite characters are white, that's not a bad thing or in anyway racist, it's just the truth. Marvel for instance, most of their big sellers (Spider-Man, Daredevil, FF, Hulk, Iron Man, Thor and the original X-Men etc) were created back in the sixties by Stan Lee.

There are untold awesome and sorely underused characters out there that need more attention and yes I would be annoyed if I realized decent, interesting characters with more fans were getting ignored in favour of others because of race.

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fodigg

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Edited By fodigg

Thanks for reading, furiousweasel. Some quick responses:

No this is not a good idea, the only reason there are less black characters on other teams is that there are less black characters overall.

That doesn't make sense to me. There's more than enough to fill twenty rosters with only poc characters. Even if there are exponentially more white characters, that doesn't necessarily mean they'd have to be on a team and that you couldn't have teams with more poc. If you can put together 5-8 poc characters, you have enough for there to be an all poc team.

That's like saying you shouldn't be able to make a Star Wars comic book roster of all Jedi characters because Jedi are supposed to be rare. It doesn't matter what the percentage of poc superheroes is within the overall superhero community, if you have enough of any subgroup to form a roster and a semi-plausible reason why they might team up, you're good to go.

Picking a roster based purely on their race is stupid.

Do you feel the same way about all the all-female teams running around? What about all-mutant teams? Are those stupid?

And it wouldn't be only because of their race. Look at the characters people have suggested on this thread for a potential roster: Luke Cage, Black Panther, Storm, War Machine, Monica Rambeau, Blue Marvel. Those are huge, big-name Marvel heroes. You're telling me you wouldn't want to read a book with all of them in it purely because the team is all black?

Also can you imagine the outrage if a writer on a book like the Avengers was heard saying 'I only want white characters'

Of course there would be outrage because the context of that is entirely different. Whites are already over-represented. There are already all-white teams—the Avengers film had an all-white Avengers team even. It's a false equivalency. The idea that identical treatment of different groups in radically different circumstances and levels of representation is "equal" is ludicrous. Identical treatment across the board within an inherently unequal status quo is not "fair" or "equal" at all.

The point of actively promoting quality poc characters is to counteract the existing status quo that tends to push them out in favor of more established, white, silver and golden-age characters. The point of an all or mostly poc book would be to counteract the existing tendency to limit how many poc characters appear in an ensemble or on the page at one time. Those limitations are real and need to be addressed.

However, if you think this is a poor way to address those concerns, I'd love to hear some suggestions on alternate methods.

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FuriousWeasel

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No this is not a good idea, the only reason there are less black characters on other teams is that there are less black characters overall. Picking a roster based purely on their race is stupid. Also can you imagine the outrage if a writer on a book like the Avengers was heard saying 'I only want white characters'

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tg1982

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fodigg

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Edited By fodigg

@tg1982 said:

@fodigg:

Here is a direct quote,

"The call promised that many more characters beyond the ones teased this week would be a part of the team including Monica Rambeau who Ewing was very excited to write. "She's got a new costume and a new name, but she's kind of rejoining the superhero set in terms of rebranding herself. She's basically coming back as Spectrum, which we batted around possible names, and you could tell that one had a kind of hard science-fiction feel to it. One of the things I love about Monica...is that she was once the leader of [the Avengers] team, and it's great to have her in that position again." He added that he's finding new ways to use the former Captain Marvel's powers and ways to incorporate her history into the group and book."

Here is the article. I'm not sure if anything has changed though.

Thanks! I appreciate the link!

No Caption Provided

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tg1982

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Edited By tg1982

@fodigg:

Here is a direct quote,

"The call promised that many more characters beyond the ones teased this week would be a part of the team including Monica Rambeau who Ewing was very excited to write. "She's got a new costume and a new name, but she's kind of rejoining the superhero set in terms of rebranding herself. She's basically coming back as Spectrum, which we batted around possible names, and you could tell that one had a kind of hard science-fiction feel to it. One of the things I love about Monica...is that she was once the leader of [the Avengers] team, and it's great to have her in that position again." He added that he's finding new ways to use the former Captain Marvel's powers and ways to incorporate her history into the group and book."

Here is the article. I'm not sure if anything has changed though.

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tg1982

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@fodigg:

Last I heard, it was Spectrum. Gimmie a sec I try to find the article.

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fodigg

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@tg1982 said:

@fodigg said:

I think they were responding to my pitch on that, not the actual pending title. Cool to hear Monica would be leading though! Her recent appearance in the new Captain Marvel reminded me how much I liked that character.

I thought it was going to be Cage, but maybe I just assumed that because of his experience with New Avengers. And because he's who I originally wanted in my pitch to lead. Either way, I'm just glad to see him off hiatus. I wonder if they're going to fast-age his kid to make that seem appropriate?

Cage is the overall leader, but he won't necessarily be in the field, Spectrum will be the leader in the field, according to Ewing. I think his baby will still be a baby.

Is she going by Spectrum not Photon?

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tg1982

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@fodigg said:

I think they were responding to my pitch on that, not the actual pending title. Cool to hear Monica would be leading though! Her recent appearance in the new Captain Marvel reminded me how much I liked that character.

I thought it was going to be Cage, but maybe I just assumed that because of his experience with New Avengers. And because he's who I originally wanted in my pitch to lead. Either way, I'm just glad to see him off hiatus. I wonder if they're going to fast-age his kid to make that seem appropriate?

Cage is the overall leader, but he won't necessarily be in the field, Spectrum will be the leader in the field, according to Ewing. I think his baby will still be a baby.

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fodigg

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Edited By fodigg

Holy cow this thread got some serious bumps while notifications were broken! Glad to see so many people are pumped for the relaunched Mighty Avengers title.

@granitesoldier said:

I think the development and personality of the character is more important than their color or gender. That being said wasn't there a bit of backlash from Miles Morales because it seemed they made a multi-ethnic Spider-Man simply for the sake of making a big name multi-ethnic hero? I am all for something like this, I think both Black Panther and Luke Cage are great characters, but it should be done with reason rather than just doing it for the appearance of appealing to political correctness. It's all in the writing and delivery.

I'm not sure I understand this concern. If they're truly "great characters", what do you lose by promoting them for any reason?

Also, I have to point out that Miles wasn't the first multi-ethnic, alt-U Spider-Man. (Miguel gets no respect.)

@longbowhunter said:

Provided the reason for an all black Avengers was a good one and Bishop wasn't on the team, I'd be down.

lol! Aww, I liked Bishop. Even when he was crazy.

@tg1982 said:

@jumpstart55 said:

Only if Black Panther was the leader, i'm sorry but Falcons way to lame to be the leader.

@novi_homines said:

I don't think the falcon is the leader. Who is though? Blue Marvel?

Falcon isn't the leader. Cage will be the team leader, and Spectrum (Monica Rambeau) will be the field leader. According to some interviews with Ewing.

I think they were responding to my pitch on that, not the actual pending title. Cool to hear Monica would be leading though! Her recent appearance in the new Captain Marvel reminded me how much I liked that character.

I thought it was going to be Cage, but maybe I just assumed that because of his experience with New Avengers. And because he's who I originally wanted in my pitch to lead. Either way, I'm just glad to see him off hiatus. I wonder if they're going to fast-age his kid to make that seem appropriate?

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tg1982

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Edited By tg1982

@granitesoldier:

Really? That's cool. I tried to go into the Air Force, but due to health reasons I was unable to. Aslo JTAC? By any chance did you go to Nellis Air Force Base for training? I live in Las Vegas, which is why I ask.

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tg1982

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@granitesoldier:

Yeah, but on the bright side, you also fight for me! And I appreciate it!!! :-)

What branch are you in?

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@tg1982 said:

@granitesoldier said:

Right on. I personally don't know anything about Miles or have any thoughts on the character. I don't read the Ultimate Universe at all so I wasn't sure. I know some of my friends were PO'd because I guess he fought and beat Peter at some point, but that's really all I know.

Yeah, I don't read the Ultimate Universe at all, either. I remember Beck was "pissed" in the form of "Yay, now I have something else to rant about! To hell with any facts!!!" way that only he could. He was saying it was a "travesty" "It was Michelle Obama's fault" and blah, blah, blah. Ironically that's right around the time he really lost it and was let go from Fox (Though this wasn't the reason or anything)

here's a link if you want a few laughs...

Glenn Beck blames Michelle Obama for Miles Morales

I find him more an embarrassment to Americans and it bothers me that I technically fight for him when I deploy.

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tg1982

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Right on. I personally don't know anything about Miles or have any thoughts on the character. I don't read the Ultimate Universe at all so I wasn't sure. I know some of my friends were PO'd because I guess he fought and beat Peter at some point, but that's really all I know.

Yeah, I don't read the Ultimate Universe at all, either. I remember Beck was "pissed" in the form of "Yay, now I have something else to rant about! To hell with any facts!!!" way that only he could. He was saying it was a "travesty" "It was Michelle Obama's fault" and blah, blah, blah. Ironically that's right around the time he really lost it and was let go from Fox (Though this wasn't the reason or anything)

here's a link if you want a few laughs...

Glenn Beck blames Michelle Obama for Miles Morales

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GraniteSoldier

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@tg1982 said:

@granitesoldier said:

That being said wasn't there a bit of backlash from Miles Morales because it seemed they made a multi-ethnic Spider-Man simply for the sake of making a big name multi-ethnic hero?

The only person I ever saw criticizing the Miles Morales decision (at least openly) being Spider-Man was Glenn Beck. Most other people were really just saying it matter of factly on other news outlets (at least where I'm at).

Right on. I personally don't know anything about Miles or have any thoughts on the character. I don't read the Ultimate Universe at all so I wasn't sure. I know some of my friends were PO'd because I guess he fought and beat Peter at some point, but that's really all I know.

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I love the fact that wishes have an influence here. This is a Great thing.

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That being said wasn't there a bit of backlash from Miles Morales because it seemed they made a multi-ethnic Spider-Man simply for the sake of making a big name multi-ethnic hero?

The only person I ever saw criticizing the Miles Morales decision (at least openly) being Spider-Man was Glenn Beck. Most other people were really just saying it matter of factly on other news outlets (at least where I'm at).

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Only if Black Panther was the leader, i'm sorry but Falcons way to lame to be the leader.

I don't think the falcon is the leader. Who is though? Blue Marvel?

Falcon isn't the leader. Cage will be the team leader, and Spectrum (Monica Rambeau) will be the field leader. According to some interviews with Ewing.

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@ultimatejonathan said:

As a black comic reader, I really do not care for an all black or predominately black superhero team. I only care about character.

I personally feel the same way, but I am excited to see so many of my favorite, overlooked characters being featured in the same book. And I'm even more interested in the idea that none of these characters are there just to be the black character, which I think will give them all that much more of a chance to really stand out for what's actually cool about them, which is something almost of these characters deserve.

True, true.

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@novi_homines: Well with the new "Mighty" isn't everyone else supposedly off-world? I'm not entirely sure of the setup since I haven't really been following it, but if everyone else is gone I suppose that gives reason why it is the way it is. I suppose I should have clarified in my other post that the reasoning should exist in the comic itself. Not outside in our world.

When I say done with reason I just mean that it has more meaning than "an all (insert ethnic group) team for the sake of having that (insert ethnic group again) team". I think with new "Mighty" they are off to a great start with interesting characters like Luke Cage and Monica Rambeau (I don't know anything really about Blue Marvel or Falcon), and it will largely succeed due to how they have the team form and how well the book itself is written.

Now don't misunderstand, I am all for the idea. I just support the idea of making it a strong team that has a chance of being popular and well written, and not a Marvel experiment that falls by the wayside.

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Edited By novi_homines

@granitesoldier said:

I think the development and personality of the character is more important than their color or gender. That being said wasn't there a bit of backlash from Miles Morales because it seemed they made a multi-ethnic Spider-Man simply for the sake of making a big name multi-ethnic hero? I am all for something like this, I think both Black Panther and Luke Cage are great characters, but it should be done with reason rather than just doing it for the appearance of appealing to political correctness. It's all in the writing and delivery.

That and the fact that he has essentially replaced pete in the ultimate universe. But the writing and story has hands down been the best out of the ultimate universe thus far. And as a result, people have come to love the character.

And when you say "done with reason" what do you mean by that? How else could they create such a cast, without coming off as being "politically correct"? It's simply impossibly because when you look at the cover it's blatantly clear that an african american dominant team was put together on purpose. Why? Because we're so used to it being the other way around. Sometimes you need to be politically correct in order to progress and break down that way of thinking.

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Provided the reason for an all black Avengers was a good one and Bishop wasn't on the team, I'd be down.