Finnin

Wold athlette class heroines with big eyes... ok i was never really in women that can break theyr own nose just by runing too fast but ok, even "non-meta" (or post-human or what ever you want to call them) heroes tend to have both physial and mental cappabilites to trump wold cappacitis in several disciplines (look at Batman, wold´s greatest ling... in everything he ever tryed, insluding all criminal sciences, several marial arts, economy, chemistry, extensive knowledce of electronic systems in general and he still looks like looks AND he has a time to still to do someting else in a mean time between training, runin company, improvin or at least keeping up in severeal very differen science departmens and runing huge-ass company, for example catching criminals, training other members of Bat-family, doing some stuff for at least one hero team at a time and.. you now BREATHING) and like it or not looks was allways more "important" (or rather "more pointed out") so i can get the idea of "looking like a walking infarct" being standart description of most heroiness and yeah most reades are guys and i can deal with that, what ever. But while female with a each breast larger then a head wearing boosacks (you know those skin-tight leather costumes that somehow manage to lift, seperate and perfectly out-line them) can make one wonder, what was a last time what was a real time when autor acually seen a real woman, i come (maybe for preserving my own sanity) to look at female costumes from bit differnt perspective- if i was a female in 40´s and i had what it takes to fight the crime (which super powers or not requires s*load of courage and selcofidence) i´d sure as hell wear skimpiest costume i could find just out of principle because screw you patriachs... aand it also helps to draw attention from a face. Look at WW yeah her original costume (with a skirt) wasn´t as skimpy as her later version (i personaly loved her alternative costume she got when JMS got at her) but it still left pretty small room for imaginatio (1941) and fact that Marston was pro-feminist, so one can make the argument about "revealing costumes being part of female self-realization" and what not.

Well then time passes from one age to another... costumes remains the same and proportions are more irrational. Well we established, that looking sexy is part of heroine description, makes sense to certain degree (irrational proportions requiring gravity fealds are still stupid), most heroes looks very masculine most heroines look very feminine. But our argument for revealing costumes is long since gone. Ok. Time to change it... umm. For what exactly. See, if you want to preserve point one (heroines looking like slu- i mean self realized, confident woman) you are pretty limitted in costume department if you dont want end up wit another body part showcase

-armor (realistic armor): is mostly out, you have few ways how to make it work (Ravager, BB?), but there is pretty limited ammount of options how to make it work without endind with chainmail bikini, not mentioning that armor makes sense with only certain back-grounds

-variations of civilian clothes: this can acually work relatively well at least for younger generation of super heroes, you take civilian/sport clothes and add some gimmick to make hero stic out (Wonder Girl, Bombshell, Jenny Sparks i guess) but that requires to have "Kent face" or only one idedntity (ie being either public figure or having to "real" civilian life) othewise you are risking big trouble unless you posses power of Shazam. Also if you over use it can easily "bleak out" the scene, super hero comics should be still bit colorfull yes you can go for some "noir" or "realistic" setting, those are exceptions that just can´t get mainstream hold.

- uniformes and costumes: regular military outfits are beyond redemption (or have closer to previous points) and honostly most things you can do with "costumes" were already used (and they are generally skimpy there are few exceptions like let´s say second Batgirl and Spoiler are probably closest from what i can recall from top of my head), sadly skin tight suits do suddenly look like pretty passable idea

-alien/high tech armors and designs: if you want at least some level of possibility, baliscics and physics will just bite you in the ass, i was acually trying for my entire coffee break to think of something personally approveable were Adepta Sorolitas from W40K, go figure. Most attemps for alien (or HT) clothes and uniforms makes even original Tardis crew giggle, but that is general problem inly amplified by low-resolution of a media, it´s pretty damn hard to come up with original believable llooking costume, specially when need to keep them relatively simple for comic book needs.

-historical and pseudo-historical outfitts: while "real" female clothing are useable by noncom and magic-like characters, male outfitts "upgraded" for female atanomy acually leaves quite a lot of room (i am personally making run with Green Arrow/Malazan sapper -or crossbow in thus case- inspired heroine in modified-mid european renaissance hunting outfitt) and yes while this is still back ground based, dressing as Venetian noble and calling myself "Stiletto" makes at very least same sense as wearing chainmail of word that includes space ships and eye beams. Ok this is getting obnoxiously long even for me so:

LD;DR: to loosely quote one gentleman "this is League of Legens not Club of Ordinary Janes", majority of superheroines could mae cariere as models and there is ultimately nothing wrong with that, problem is (appart from artists being sometimes lazy or, well, just bad) there is (especially in today world, i am no moralist but let´s be honest with ourselves) pretty thin line between dressing "sexy/provocatively" and "skimpy/slutty" especially whitn natural super hero demand for original outfitts that will "stickin out of a crowd". It could be better, but it can be also waay worse (like... hmmm ... all artists starting drawning like Liefeld).

1. I did and so far my sub-concience is trying to create separate pocket for it as Ravagers alone pretty much managed to already ass-rape several concepts already (yeah not a big fan of post Flashpoint but that´s for another topic). Even tho i haven´t seen much that would make me look at her taht way, i see a mercenary chick with two swords, having two swords (european design no less) have nothing to do with ninjas. Is she fast? Yeah. Is she agile? Sure. But really nothing that would evoke "the art of silent killing" Batman, for example, has much closer to it, striking from a shadows, allways on a move, silent, fast, precise, with much more planing much more ahead then "cut it ´till it stops moving" (and scale mail is anything BUT silent, trust me this one). Either way there not much to know about new version anyhow and picture at a start of the topic shows Rose in her Ravager costume (and topic itself has Ravager in the name, but ok you can make argument of "being part of the Ravagers") and therefore pre-relaunch continuity, i might look like Douchy McNitpick... and yes i am and in comic world i concider focus on detail very important aspect thanks to constant shower of relaunches and retcons being showed at consumers direction, remmember the times when Superman was able to shoot rainbow from his hands? Or when Stromwatch wasn´t secret organization and acually part of completely different universe (and Midnighter didn´t wear that idiotic "carbon armour")?

2. Again, yes and no. You implied several things: it´s pretty much clear that characters -i mean chracters, not goons- based around martial arts will be skilled in martial arts, also fact that he was able to beat some-else-with-similar-ability isn´t very important unless there is stated something in "being the best there is" (and which would be still arguable due to cross-genre realites). But most is me just adding more stuff (i prersonally find a fact, taht se posess much higher strengh and resilience then what would her physiology imply -especially when we discuss hand to hand fighters- then "guy with a sword can use a sword"), i just didn´t see the reason to break it appart as it all falls in "skills and abilites" cathegory.

I wasn´t implying you are wrong (well i was about ninjas but let´s say that´s just realistic contra popculture wiepoint), or stupid or illiterate and if you got that feeling, it wasn´t my intention (in other word you aer wrong HA!) to do so, it just my general geekyness, a fact i care quite a lot about (as i mentioned i did several most stuff on both SG and DS/Titans) and yeah i generally tend to preffer few lenghtier posts over 1e+11 short ones. So it short:

1) unfortunetly did... buut, doesn´t realy change anything

2) only to the lesser degree

3) just warming up

JediXman: no offence but you apparently have some catching up in Titans or Ninjas (or i missed the joke) , while she is pretty smart and can plan quite ahead, she tends to be quite straightforward with her battle plans and i don´t her using thowing weapons, poisons, traps, smoke bombs or black eggs and i am pretty dam sure that if "kick the front door, murder everyone inside" is ever mentioned in ninja manual it´s in "how NOT to do it part"

1. So is Rose, both Deathstroke and Nightwing are dicks but they are pretty damn good at what they´re doing. She´s has enhanced speed and reflexes (able do clean-up a room full of armed mercs with autos without getting hit or dodge barrage of lightning bolts, she should be at low super human, so by aplication of "cross-universe-quasi-logic" she should be faster), strenght (as she is still supporting character DCU is bit fuzzy here, she is under "peek human" cathegory -and therefore much stronger then what would one guessed- i don´t recall her more then about 200lb thou it was one hand and pretty much efortless, so let´s go with "about equal it´s some time since my last run on CG ) stamina (low super human) and (irrelevantly low) healing factor.

2. Precognitin doesn´t mean "invulnerability" but for most of her life, hr precognition manifested in "come and go" flashes and her fightning style -while certainly giving her an advantage- doesn´t rely on it as neither of her teachers possessed precognition themselves (in other words she is not a Cassandra), that´s like saying "he defeated someone with a hammer" and it´s certainly most usefull then post-hypnotic suggestion that "let´s you fight at full potential" which is slight adranal (ehm) gland stimul

3. It´s pretty hard to decide "fighting skill" as autors generally don´t know anything about it (or they know a lot and are actively trying to defy even basic principles) and i am not even going to bother with armor or weapons (let´s just say it would make it pretty one-sided, reality hammer tends to crush anything from Asians even harder then American super heroes) but they are relatively equal within "suspension of disbelief" boundaries.

Well my vote goes suprisingly to Rose, even when i try NOT to turn it into geekmath equation (yeah this is me keping it short) and neither of these characters is interesting because of theyr flashy super-powers (mostly because they have none), Rose just recieved better end of a bargain, i wouldn´t say it would be easy fight but i also don´t think she´d be in any "real" danger

TL;DR: at the end of a day it´s skilled fighter with several meta-human attributes against skilled fighter with... extreme degree of survival instict