Fifthchild's forum posts

#1 Posted by Fifthchild (585 posts) - - Show Bio

This is obviously a topic thats been done a few times but basically - no.

Goes without saying that the following is just IMO:

  • The movie sure talked a lot about hope but was generally pretty bleak
  • The final infamous neck-snap scene sure killed whatever hope vibe there might have been after what was a genuinely pretty heroic scene with the World Engine
  • Also - genocide!
  • Final Superman scene made him seem like a bit of a dick - trashing the $100 billion million drone
  • Minor point:
    • The hyper-desaturated colour scheme that Snyder seems to be in love with doesnt exactly scream hope either (see the newly released Superman pic from the next film for more of the same)

That about covers it.

#2 Posted by Fifthchild (585 posts) - - Show Bio

@oscars94 said:

In the Thor TDW prelude comic , it mentioned Thor being weakened by Odin's dark energy when he was sent to earth to find Loki during the time of the Avengers movie.

Going somewhat off memory here but I cant say thats accurate. IIRC it was stated that Odin was not sure Thor would survive the process but he wasnt stated to be weakened afterwards and it certainly wasnt implied that he was in a weakened state during his time on Earth.

#3 Posted by Fifthchild (585 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@fifthchild said:

As for this fight - perhaps worth noting that Banner had implanted a device in his brain that enabled him to control his transformation into the Hulk and apparently dial back his rage:

So its possible Hulk wasnt at his best here...

The only problem with this explanation is that Banner wasn't throttling back Hulk when he fought Sun God. The Savage Hulk personality and temperament seemed to take over and there's no way Banner would say "Hulk not force of nature!" of his own accord. The device wasn't in full play here as Banner wasn't speaking in full sentences.

As @slimj87d pointed out the point isnt that Hulk was definitely impaired in this scene - its that the brain implant and what little we know about how it works raises the possibility that he was. Hulk was angry in this scene but its possible that he would have been angrier and stronger in normal circumstances. Theres nothing about "throttle back" that implies its an on/off switch between a rational Banner controlled Hulk and a completely unrestrained Savage Hulk - quite the opposite in fact.

It may turn out that the device doesnt quite function like this or that it was not in effect at this point. But at this point it does raise an element of uncertainty.

#4 Edited by Fifthchild (585 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Edited by Fifthchild (585 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Even writers at Marvel think Hulk can't beat a Superman knock off. Heh the irony is quite prevalent in this pseudo Avengers vs Justice League fight.

@kgb725 said:

I don't think he got owned

Sun God had the advantage for most of the fight and then one shotted him with an energy blast which turned Hulk back into Banner. Seems like he got owned to me.

It seemed to be a pretty even fight for most of the issue. SG did win pretty deisively in the end and with a nice verbal putdown so that might qualify as an owning depending on your perspective.

As for "Even writers at Marvel think Hulk can't beat a Superman knock off" - he has beaten heaps. I dont think this has anymore relevance to that question than Superman getting beaten by a Hulk knock off like Doomsday.

@lvenger said:

@kgb725 said:

@lvenger: Hulk has beaten pretty much all superman esque characters in marvel. Is there more of this fight that isn't shown here ?

I haven't read the issue but I think Slim captures all the images of the Hulk fight. As for Hulk's track record, beating Hyperion is fair enough but Gladiator does have much better feats in overall stats than Hulk so Hulk shouldn't have beaten Gladiator as easily as he did. Plus radiation + Gladiator grabbing onto Hulk gave Hulk the chance of winning. Plot circumstances in other words.

Gladiator was already beaten before the radiation thing came up. Hulk literally dragged Gladiators unresisting body over to the reactor and shoved him in it. And current hyperion has better feats than even old school Gladiator - holding 2 universes apart, catching a planet travelling at 500,000 miles an hour...

#6 Posted by Fifthchild (585 posts) - - Show Bio


Lol at: "until banner changes into Hulk" . So Thor never fought an enraged Hulk interesting maybe mindless wasn't so angry them... Defenders #10 proves that and so does feats. Only Hulk that can match Thor's strength is WB. You Hulk fans love statements so why don't you remember when he says that he had never been so angry and blablabla.

Defenders 10 is probably the biggest outlier in there entire history so its nice that you latch onto that.

Nevertheless it never shows Hulk needing to "rage up" to match strength with Thor - instead Hulks dynamic strength is not mentioned in the entire issue. Its worth keeping in mind that this issue, written in 1972 IIRC, was obviously very early in both characters history - & Hulk's dynamic factor was nowhere near as famous/established as it would become.

Thor did fight the Mindless Hulk.....with Mjolnir and lightning - the whole package. Theres nothing in that meeting to suggest Thor was a strength peer to the Mindless Hulk and a superior to the Savage Hulk normally.

If Thor was really superior in strength to Hulk normally - let alone all but the most extreme versions ever seen - then there would be no Thor/Hulk rivalry & any of there fights would end in about 4 seconds considering Thor also has a nigh indestructible magic hammer to hit Hulk with, lightning powers etc.

For example the clash with the Savage Hulk in Hulk 250, where

  1. Thor explicitly says he is willing to kill Banner/Hulk
  2. Thor uses lightning etc
  3. the fight goes on for some time - until the battle has shifted to a totally different location

is completely inexplicable if we are to assume you are right.

It should be at least common knowledge that Thor's base strength is much higher and Hulk is potentially stronger.

It is "common knowledge". Its not supported by anything from the actual comic books but its exactly the sort of "common knowledge" that comicvine seems to specialise in...

#7 Posted by Fifthchild (585 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is stronger until Hulk goes WB.

...I think it would be more accurate to say that Thor is stronger...until Bruce Banner changes into the Hulk. WB Hulk is vast overkill - Hulks never had to "rage up" to match Thor in strength.

#8 Posted by Fifthchild (585 posts) - - Show Bio

@haveatthee: His showings in infinity may not have been much, but it was more than other power houses got. Hyperion and hulk were both having trouble with members of the cull obsidian. Thor actually went toe to toe with thanos for a second.

Thor did go toe to toe with Thanos...for a second. And didnt seem to have any effect. His lightning in particular was completely no-sold. The Cull Obsidian were actually very formidable and Hulk had a pretty decent moment when he braced the weight of a supernova star on his back. All in all though - not a great day for The Avengers.

#9 Posted by Fifthchild (585 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza said:

Back on topic, I am interested myself in knowing when Thor has got a proper KO win over Hulk, with no ambiguity attached to it. Is there a comic where Thor has gone toe to toe with Hulk and basically out-smashed him using Mjolnir??

The closest you will find to this is Thor 385 - in that comic Mjolnir is portrayed as a hugely effective melee weapon - Thor doesnt beat Hulk with it but its implied that it gives him the edge. After making Thor discard the hammer though (this was a fairly amoral Hulk), Hulk does go on to put a bit of a beating on Thor in a straight hand to hand clash.

#10 Posted by Fifthchild (585 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza said:

I have bumped up this thread because having bought "Past Perfect" in the last week I now feel qualified to comment. In his Hero Envy blog, John Cimino counts this as a Thor win, but that's if you separate the fight into 3 smaller fights. If you do, then the first fight is a ko for Hulk as he knocks Thor into a mountain and the mountain then buries Thor. Hulk walks away from that and what follows is the next fight, where Thor surprises Hulk with a lightning bolt and does KO him for all of 3 panels of the comic, Fight 3 ends in stalemate as Thor calls down lightning and Hulk is washed away in a flood before jumping away. So basically its a tie which ever way you look at it and the end comment says "There was no true victor".

BTW, this is surely one of the best Thor v Hulk fights ever. Thor does use a wide variety of powers and doesn't just brawl and Hulk doesn't get beat!

Well I probably wouldnt count the mountain burial as a Hulk win. A little too "environmental" for my tastes.

The lightning KO was definitely a win and IIRC the first in their rivalry.

However I think you are glossing over the part after that where Hulk beats Thor until its no longer clear whther he is "alive or dead". Thats close to a win in my book though its somehat tainted by the fact that Thor begins the fight at a disadvantage as he is carrying Banner on his back when he transforms to Hulk. So prob not a clean win but a definite KO.

As for the Nul stuff? Well a win isnt always easy to define but it isnt always about looking more powerful or superior. In that fight Nul definitely came off as more powerful IMO but, provided you count BFR as a win, I have no real problem giving Thor a win in this case, despite Thor collapsing into unconsciousness afterwards and Nul being mostly unharmed.