Enyalios's forum posts

#1 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@vicariousfan:

First I didn't forget about Isaiah Bradley. He is the result of one of those retcons and never actually took up the mantle in an official run of the book (coincidently, if they were going to give the mantle of Captain America off to someone so they could have a black Captain America, Isaiah Bradley given a rejuvenated body or Eli/Patriot would have been better in my opinion).

And God of Thunder is the mantle that Thor possesses. If she would have taken on the role of Goddess of Thunder or Protector of Midgard, we would be having a very different conversation. For example, Victor Alverez calls himself Power Man, a name originally made famous by Eric Josten (Goliath/Atlas) and later by Luke Cage. Luke Cage currently goes by his own name now. What is going on right now is the equivalent of Victor deciding to call himself Luke and the real Luke said sure, I'll just call myself Cage. It doesn't make sense.

And yes, you are right, Marvel has tried passing on the name of Thor to others. It didn't work. Dargo appeared as Thor in one story on his own and popped up for Thor Corps. Red Norvell never headlined Thor's book. Eric Masterson was killed off. There is nothing original about this character or the concept. As stated they have replaced Thor before. There is even a what-if story where Jane took Mjolnir, thus making Thor a female. Earth-X had Thor transmuted into a female. Even the costume is a knock off of old King Thor, cut for a female and given Eric Masterson's helmet. And she is an environmentalist type a la Ultimate Thor.

You ask why sales are still pretty high for Thor comics right now? Its because Aaron is a coward and is keeping Thor in the book so hard core Thor fans are still reading it because Thor is still there. If Thor was removed and all you had was female Thor in it, I'm willing to bet that number would fall. If Thor began appearing in another comic, say Journey into Mystery, I'm willing to bet you would really see that number fall. Even people who adamantly defend this whole thing like @ms-lola say that the story is weak and they are holding out hope it gets better because they like and believe in the concept.

There are so many ways that Aaron could have done this without breaking faith with Thor fans. He choose not only to ignore, but antagonize them.

#2 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@vicariousfan:

The evidence would be that each one of these characters ultimately went back to the original. Sales declined and the comics had to reverse themselves.

Also, most of the others you have spoken of were the results of retcons and alternate realities. In the case of Captain America for instance, while for the sake of the continuity there have been others, in the actual comics, Steve, Bucky, John and now Sam has taken the mantle. Only one other has gone by Steve Rogers and that's because when he was originally written, he was supposed to be Steve.

#3 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio

Have to go with Tom as Loki. He resonates the character and even makes you root for him at times even though you are not supposed. He dominated nearly every seen he was in, even those he shouldn't have. Ian really didn't do that as Magneto. It never seemed like he found his pacing with the character. If this was Gandalf it would have been different, but between these two characters, Loki takes it in my opinion.

#4 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio

While I would love to see Hercules get his own series, he needs to reestablish some credibility first. Put him back in the Avengers (hopefully with his powers back) and have him in a strong support role first. Then have a Hercules-centric story in the Avengers, and then a huge event to push him off on his own series.

In fact if he could go get Ares and bring him back to the world of the living, that would be awesome, even better than Thor and Loki.

#5 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio

So the fact that he is a god, the heir apparent to a divine kingdom filled with other gods, controls the weather, manipulates reality, flies, can lift pretty much anything he wants to, is bullet proof, can come back from the dead basically on a whim and bring others back as well, is thousands of years old and has been reincarnated dozens if not hundreds of times, among a whole host of other things...good so far, totally relatable...but throw in the fact that he is considered attractive and that makes him over he top? Wow...

#6 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, Aaron is probably trying to lay an insult, but the other thing he is doing is labeling those that disagree with this direction. He picked probably among the most pathetic of Thor villains, made him a sexist type character and then had him regurgitate a lot of the words coming from who do not like this direction and coupled it with the sexist crap that has been said. By doing so, he minimizes their concerns. These are the sexists talking, who cares about them? Never mind that there is a number of people who think this is great solely because its a female who has taken the hammer. Apparently there is nothing wrong with that.

The problem is they have created a character that, at worst, is doomed to failure, at best will always be the adjunct of Thor. I don't see how someone wanting a strong female hero can ever think this was a good move. No one is ever going to accept this character as anything other than a female version of Thor. The only reason why Carol Danvers managed to come out of the shadow of Mar-Vell is because they kept him dead forever and she never actually took on his role (Quasar did that), even if she did take his title.

When it comes to replacing Thor, Marvel has tried it. It failed. Thor is eventually going to get his hammer back and then, where does that leave this character? The current prevalent thought is that she is human and very likely a non-powered human so what will Marvel do then? Give her a consolation prize of another mystic weapon to give her similar powers? Beta Ray Bill is the most highly regarded Thor stand in ever created and, 32 years after his creation, he still doesn't have his own book. Thunderstrike failed (I won't lie, I liked this character) and Marvel killed him off.

Of course, if Aaron is so confident in this direction, there is an easy way to see if its working. Remove Thor completely from the book. Realistically speaking, from a story standpoint, Thor has fulfilled his role. He has accepted the fact that the hammer is no longer his and given the new character his blessing to carry on in his stead. He can safely exit the book and he leaves nothing unfinished. After a couple of months, restart Journey Into Mystery with Thor at its helm, embarking on a quest of self-discovery and figuring out why he is suddenly unworthy, which realistically speaking is what the character should be doing anyway. If the Thor comic continues to sell well then he has proven his point. If not...oh well...

#7 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio

It would take a lot more than just the name. The whole story is garbage.

Unworthy Thor: At what point has Thor shown that he is unworthy? He is still acting the same. He still has the same overall goals (the protection of Earth and Asgard). He is angry and depressed, but this is because he can't lift Mjolnir and not the other way around. He has gone insane in the past, with the combined forces of Beta Ray Bill, Adam Warlock and Silver Surfer having to be brought against him. He has doubted his place in Asgard and on Earth and imposed an exile upon himself. He killed a human. He accidently killed his grandfather (among the worst crimes you could commit in old Nordic custom). Through all of this, Mjolnir stayed with him. There is nothing Aaron could say, nothing he could show that can explain how Thor suddenly went unworthy. If they would have come up with the idea that something had changed in Mjolnir, that could have been accepted, but the unworthy hammer shows that Thor, despite still being a hero, despite still willing to give everything to fight the good fight, is somehow unworthy, and that is crap. He probably doesn't even know what the whisper is.

Odin unable to lift Mjolnir: Let's face, Odin has never been worthy in the same sense as Thor. He has habitually lied to his family and his people, used guile more often than valor, wanted to wipe out the entirety of earth to prevent his brother's rise (the coward's way of handling the situation), and created proxies for the sole purpose of dying in place of Thor. He was mad at Thor for bringing Loki, his own adopted son, back to life. And through all of this was still able to lift and command the hammer, even able to stop Thor from being able to lift it. Why? Because the enchantment has never applied to him. And now, all of a sudden, he can't? Because of a whisper that he never heard? Again, there is nothing Aaron can say to explain this.

Thor is more curious about who has the Hammer than exactly what it is that is making him unworthy of it: This here is probably the worst of it. He just accepts the hammer, the symbol of his birthright, forged for him, the hammer he gave up the Odin Force to re-forge and after it had shattered (and accepted the fact that should the hammer break again, he himself could die), has chosen someone else over him, and seems to care more about who she is than exactly what moronic plot device has made him unworthy. He spent much of his youth questing to prove himself worthy of Mjolnir and then just accepts its not his after watching it fly from the upstart's hand, apparently of its own volition strike a bunch of people (conveniently forgetting the fact that he made the hammer do that not too long ago).

#8 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze:

His attempt during the Dark Reign actually illustrates why he would be an effective leader. He took a bunch of unruly misfits and forged them into a highly efficient military unit capable of challenging hordes of undead and mythical creatures. And the reason they died is not because of Ares per se, but rather due to the loyalty he inspired in them which made them come back for him after they had already escaped.

I could see Ares as a combat leader as well as the enforcer and mentor type but they would need someone to act as the face of that team because Ares would not do well in that role.

@sc: I do believe leadership would be a burden on him, as you say. During the Dark Reign arc, his role as leader/Mentor of the Shades, he is not nearly as reckless as he is generally displayed to be and has a genuine concern for them, a concern which ultimate gets him captured when he most likely would not have been had he been alone or not responsible.

#9 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio

No she hasn't, though Modi and Magni have in one form or another. There is a very old comic that supposedly took place in one of the previous incarnations of the Asgardians (I.E. prior to one of the previous Ragnorak cycles) that included them. In the Ultimate Universe, Modi is the son of Thor and Hela, and during the Reigning, Magni is the son of Thor and Amora.

#10 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@thunderingthorfan:

Um...yeah, physics prove you wrong. I am not a fan of this direction and therefore am not trying to justify it. That being said, regardless of the man's strength a hammer in his hand is going to strike harder than what he is capable of without it. Likewise, a metallic arm, even if it just has the same strength level as the person its attached to, is still going to have a greater striking power that an arm of flesh and blood. Its denser, and you are not worrying about being careful of your strike surface. Does Thor need it? Well, right now he does since he doesn't have an arm. And if he has it, he may as well make use of it. And the girl is going to have the same strength as Thor. She is not going to be physically weaker. First, Marvel is not going to paint themselves in that corner. Second, when the hammer elects to transform someone, it has traditionally granted them Thor's full strength. Now is not going to be different.

As to why he uses this arm when in the future he has the destroyer's arm, my guess would be that he doesn't have control of the destroyer and therefore can't just dissect it on a whim. Also, I am willing to bet that if we follow that storyline to completion, something happened to the Destroyer because I doubt Thor is going to dismantle a weapon of that magnitude just so he can have an arm.