ElGUitarist

'Sfar as I know, you need a masters degree in the appropriate field to become a detective (i.e. criminal justice, which includes being taught about investigations, terrorism and criminal behaviour) which is how I assume Robin got a promotion to detective at a relatively early age.

My point is, ComicBruce eventually became the great detective... while having no formal background in detective work. He didn't exactly come into Gotham to become Batman already being a badass detective. And if he did, he worked on it, just as Robin John will (albeit while already having the mantle of the bat).

Robin John Blake has a background in detective work (the mandatory schooling that is involved etc). I am more than certain that anyone in his position and his skill set would be able to work their way to becoming the great detective we know Batman to be. He isn't becoming Batman already a badass detective... but he is the most likely character in the Nolan-verse to BECOME the badass detective.

Red Hood and the outlaws always has pretty good art. Awesome.

@ANOMALY0964 said:

Someone can't go straight to Nightwing without being ROBIN first...

I would LOVE to see Nolan wait five years and come back and Give us Batman Beyond with JGL and CB...

Nolan said that, in his universe, there is no Robin.

What we got instead as an interpretation of the Robin character for the Nolan-verse. Instead of a Boy Wonder in uniform code-named Robin who is a sidekick to Batman... we got a cop/detective whose first name is Robin who acted as a sidekick of sorts to Batman.

The Bat-family is a silly concept that only (sort of, IMO) works in the comics. IRL, there only being Batman makes most sense.

I also like your idea of a Batman Beyond kind of concept to JGL's Batman; Bruce being in the background as a mentor, but retired while JGL kicks ass. Sweet.

@LuigiBat said:

@comicdude23 said:

This was a brilliant theory brought up by ElGUitarist. We saw Bale's Batman as the tactical fighter. But as ElGUitarist said on my other thread, what if JGL was the detective Batman. People asked how will he fight as Batman? Well, he might be smarter. He deduced Wayne as Batman very easily and was promoted to Detective. He was a smart guy. So what if he was the smart Batman?

I think him deducing that Wayne was Batman so easily was largely due to his own personal experience. The guy grew up pretending to be happy and pretending to be someone other than the person he truly is/was, if you spent your life pretending to be someone else you'd more than likely notice when someone else was doing it.

He is certainly a very smart guy, I'd say he's probably smarter than Bruce Wayne in the Nolanverse from a detective point of view.But I don't think he's smart enough to be seen as the 'detective Batman'.

So... him being a detective as a career isn't enough to be the 'detective Batman'? As opposed to comicbook Bruce, who had no formal training in the area?

Brilliant.

But I do agree that him knowing who Bruce was isn't an example of his detective work. I saw it as... since he's Nolan's interpretation of the Robin character, that was a little flavor of the Tim Drake Robin.

Sweet! haha.

I thought of it when the two co-owners of my local comic shop were arguing over TDKR. One of them said it was the best ending. The other was complaining that he didn't do a lot of detective work.

Then I thought, yeah, that's true, he didn't. But then I thought of something that led me to the idea of JGL as the detective Batman...

...Batman is a character than has been around since the '30s! How many writers have written Batman? How many different interpretations have there been about Batman from all these writers? All of them either brought something new or accentuated a different aspect of Batman. All these 70+ years of Batman stories have accumulated to a huge idea of the Batman character:

-the world's greatest detective

who is also quite a superwiz at all aspects of science

who is also a master hand-to-hand fighter in several styles

who is also master of disguise

who also street smart enough to survive without his Wayne name in the world

who is also a brooding character with personal needs

who has also been seen to be more of a "The mission comes first and to hell with personal needs"

etc

etc

etc x10

...this can happen in comics over the years. This cannot happen in a movie (even three). Either he's master fighter (with good intellect), or he's a master detective/scientist... do you know how long that would take for an actual person to be THAT good at either one, let alone ALL? He's either a brooding personal character, or he's the mission-oriented militant protector of gotham.

To make things realistic, Batman/Bruce can only be so many things in a movie/trilogy - one interpretation, or an amalgamation of a few interpretations... not ALL the interpretations.

But with more than one Batman in a movie's universe... we have the chance to see the other interpretations of Batman seen in the comics. Bale was brooding + master combatant. Maybe JGL will be the world's greatest detective + militant "the mission is never over".

If you guys know your batman, you know JGL (RJB) goes on to become batman.

"lol but it's not the comic, it's Nolan's interpretation"

Exactly, Nolan knows his batman. All the important themes and aspects of the batman mythos as been included in the movie. Batman always existing, even without Bruce, is a big part of the batman mythos.

Also why cringe when you find out his name is Robin? Nolan's interpretation of Robin the Boy Wonder was a cop/detective named Robin John Blake who acted as Batman's sidekick-ish. Much better than a kid in tights.

So instead of getting Robin, the kid sidekick to Batman who wears a costume... we got Robin, the cop-turned-detective who works closely with Batman almost to a sidekick status.

Bruce even makes a big point about Batman could be anyone twice when he talks to JGL throughout TDKR.

And the whole point of the trilogy was the symbolism of Batman, so that, unlike a man, Batman cannot be killed and could be anyone. Like JGL becoming Batman... because Batman didn't die as a result of being a symbol and can be anyone.

EDIT: so no, I don't think we'll see a Nightwing spinoff, because it doesn't make sense in the world Nolan created. From how the film ended, and how Nolan talks about it... I think it is the last of the Nolan film world he created. Of course, the story doesn't end, but it won't be filmed. And I really doubt the general public will want to see a Batman movie where Batman isn't Bruce.

ANOTHER EDIT: didn't whoever from DC and WB say that they want to make another Batman francise, one that would fit into the world of the new Man of Steel and future Justice League? This kinda blows, cuz Nolan's batman was the tits... but WB might not want to risk having a batman that isn't Bruce. Or, maybe there are two Batmen, one that takes the JL duties while JGL's batman works in gotham (we already had this in comics, only Bruce did Batman INC stuff while Dick was Batman in gotham at the same time).

@CrimsonCake : being more realistic means that he cannot be a master of everything. I mean, Nolan's Batman is a master fighter and tactician. He also knows enough of his way around the world/underworld to get back into Gotham, survive as a no-name thug etc etc. Him also being a master detective is not very realistic in terms of the time he had to learn all of this.

Bruce was away for 7 years before becoming Batman. That is already a small amount of time to become the kind of fighter he is portrayed to be (already beating several members of the LoS... each of them having the same training that Bruce was supposed to have). Are we to believe that he also spent this time being the brilliant scientist and detective that we see in the comics? Far too little time in the world of the real. And the one year that he was active as batman before TDK is still too little time. The additional 8 years could fix all that... but he was inactive as batman that entire time, as well as inactive as a human being in general... yet he knows enough to research into Selina and know what she used on the safe and why just be examining it with his eye.

So, yeah, it's kept pretty realistic.

And I'm sure Nolan decided to focus on the fighting-Batman for his trilogy, because that is what made most sense for Bruce. The detective-Batman will be the batman that JGL becomes after the trilogy... since he is an actual detective and all (but we'll never see that).

-The Avengers came to take Hope "into custody". The difference between "in custody" and "kidnapp"? The U.S. government says it's ok. And we all know that whatever they say is the right thing, amirite? (CIVIL WAR/REGISTRATION ACT).

-Mutants are a dying species; all they wanted was a chance to rebuild and use the PF for rebirth. Avengers wanted to take that away from them without any discussion. PF has proven destructive... but wasn't that before anyone know what it was and was capable of? It is also very much capable of rebirth, and in the hands of people who've dealt extensively with the PF...? Good job at not even discussing it, Avengers.

-P5 were doing a good job at a better world. Avengers didn't like it and attacked them on Utopia for a second time. THAT is what started the P5 going after the Avengers. They were after the Avengers because they were threatening all the good the have done for the world. Note: the world, not just mutant kind.

-Emma and Namor have a history of not being the best of good guys. The PF just brought that out to corrupt them further (in fact, Namor was tricked by Emma to attack Wakanda). Neither of these two would have the PF if it wasn't for the Avengers attempting to meddle with a matter that was the X-Men's to handle, as well as provoking them after the fact. It should have gone to Hope, someone without the villainous history of Emma/Namor/Ilyana.

-You also cannot judge the actions of the X-Men based on the actions of Emma. She is the one in that scene acting like a dictator, influencing Namor to do massive harm, etc etc.

-None of the P5 were in training for the day that they would receive the PF. Hope was. The PF would have gone to someone who had been training for it all her life, while under the supervision of people who have dealt with the PF in the past. Instead, the Avengers meddle, causing the PF to go into hosts who were not prepared for it, and were a decent chuck on the group who have dealt with the PF in the past (the ones who were to supervise Hope when she got the PF).