ElGUitarist

The problem is that there are some very confused people who think that Blake goes on to become Robin or Nightwing; people who didn't seem to understand the underlining point of an unkillable, beyond-just-a-man, incorruptible symbol that inspires and protects Gotham that ran throughout the trilogy. Even my old man, who barely knows a thing about Batman outside of the Nolan trilogy and TAS he used to watch with me as a kid, thought that RJB is the new Batman.

Batman got blown up by an atom bomb, yet comes right back to fight the next evil... THAT'S THE POINT of Batman in this trilogy.

The other problem... is that, in addition to this confusion that a few people have, the general audience might not be too keen on a Batman =/= Bruce movie. I'd think it's cool, but oh well.

I'd rather see it as an animated movie, because I think the ending was... the ending. What happens next in this world is a fragile thing to film.

Batman fought the entire criminal underworld, impossible if it was just using fisticuffs and no investigation.

It was his marked bills and tracking that were used in TDK.

Bruce used his 'detective skills' to find out it was Lao who was laundering the money in TDK (we only see the culmination scene where all he wanted was to look at his books/records up close to be 100% sure... the meeting where Bruce fell asleep).

He found the fingerprint from the shattered bullet.

He found out about and OBTAINED the "clean slate" in the TDKR, something that a pro thief was after for so long and the criminal underworld thought was only a myth.

He found out Selina's identity.. even with the fancy computer it's still not an easy task.

He shows his knowledge of forensics by naming what Selina used and WHY she used the certain dust powders just by looking at it.

He fixes the software patch for the auto pilot on the Bat. SO UNIMPRESSIVE for him to do that while being busy (even Fox said that he couldn't do it without more time... yet Bruce did it with pressed time).

And those are just examples that I can think of on the spot.

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You guys seem to forget that Bruce went to college and all that 'normal' stuff before leaving for 7 years before BatmanBegins. In those 7 years, he learned how criminals work, how to survive, and how to fight, and trained by the LoS. After that, he was only Batman for 1 year between BB and TDK.

That comes to 8 years of survival+Los training+being Batman.

So please tell me how any man, no matter how much money or potential, can train himself to the level of fighter that beats several LoS ninjas AND intellect AND detective skills in 8 years? The other 8 years between TDK and TDKR he spent wallowing in dispare, not being Batman, and not doing a damn thing other than that Energy project.

Again, so many interpretations of Batman; from the ultimate martial artist, to scientist level intellect in most fields of science, to world's greatest detective... and sometimes an amalgamation of everything which is only possible in comicbooks and not a realistic man.

Christian Bale's Batman was the ultimate martial artist and a bit of a science expert (fixing auto pilot, applying the sonar to all cellphones, the energy project he led).

Joseph Gordon Levitt's Batman will be the detective and tactical Batman (he's a detective on a level that gained Gordon's trust and respect quickly, and obviously has formal training (master's degree?) in order to be promoted so quickly).

It only makes sense that Nolan took this route with a more realistic (which is the point of batman) take on what a single man can do. For batman to be everything we see in the comics (which is 62+ years worth of writing and stories and interpretations), Batman has to be more than one person. And it only makes sense that Bruce would have the help from Fox and Gordon that he did; Batman is the symbol, while Bruce, Fox, Gordon and Blake in TDKR are/were the forces behind it.

@joshmightbe but wasn't your argument for Robin a grounding character for Bruce? You saying the whole mission oriented Batman makes sense to recuit Robin undermines your original point. To keep him from the darkness (which is being just devoted to the cause and in time blurring the line of right/wrong), he needs that grounding character. Love interest makes more sense than a side kick for him to bring into the shit.

From what you just said, Batman Inc. makes most sense.

It doesn't matter that the character of Robin has been around for a long time, the character never made sense to begin with. The character isn't needed for the cinema. When you put something to cinema, unless cartoon, there is always an element of realism injected. Which is why we're yet to see a live action Batman bust through brick walls bare-handed, leap like a frog (akin to the chase scene in Under the RedHood cartoon movie) or show unreasonably "above-normal" human strength.

@r3d_rob1n : Yes, they should go the more fantastical route for the reboot. Absolutely agree. I don't think, howver, that means they should forgo logic in the bringing a kid into the fray (16 year old makes a little more sense, buttttt....) ... but it still doesn't fit the character too well. I not bothered by the Robin characters, I just think the Dark Knight of Gotham makes more sense as a solo act.

@MrShway88 : just because it's been around that long doesn't mean it works. Rob Liefeld is still in the business after all this time despite the fact the isn't as good as other artists with the same longevity.

The things that makes Batman one of the most popular superhero are two major factors:

2nd place: his rogues gallery.

1st: the plausibility of the Batman.

What made Batman so popular is that kids wanted to be Batman, because there is more of a chance they can be Batman than Superman or Wolverine. It was possible to be Batman. With hard work, and help from friends, you can be Batman. That is the most relatable aspect of the Batman in all this mythos: something happens to us, we're angry, we want to do something about it... if we work hard enough (remember, it isn't just the money that makes Batman), if we work hard enough and devote ourselves to the solution, we can accomplish it.

Joe Chill hurt a boy, just a boy, who would have thought he'd do anything about it?

THAT's relatable. THAT's Batman.

@r3d_rob1n It's not about the character of Robin being dark; that is way too superficial of a complaint to be made against Robin.

The complaint is having a sidekick, period. It is not fitting of the Batman persona at all. Yeah yeah, Dick's parents died and all the sentimental stuff that is necessary for the Bruce Wayne character like @joshmightbe described. I agree, that makes sense.... for Bruce. Why does the person who keeps him sane have to fight as his sidekick? Why couldn't it be a love interest whom he connects to on the same level?

Why did Bob Kane/Bill FInger have to create the character of Dick Grayson? Why not a love interest whom had a similar tragic background which Bruce can connect to and who saves him in all the emotional and psychological ways that Robin does?

Why not see a storyline where Bruce nearly gets lost in the Batman persona, where he is becoming the "the mission is never over" Batman after 5 years in the shit, and is slowly blurring the line of right and wrong. Then comes a woman who just had her family murdered/[something else tragic that Batman couldn't save]. And instead of going after whomever the murderer as Batman, he see himself in her and realizes that she needs what he needed as an orphan... someone to who knows the pain to sympathize and comfort (akin to Robin John's distinction between "understanding" and knowing)... so he saves her emotionally as Bruce Wayne. The resulting relationship ends up saving both of them, and this act of saving that didn't involve punching a bad guy grounds Bruce Wayne from his Batman persona - beating a bad guy isn't the only way to protect/inspire Gotham, and going after the bad guy isn't the only thing (let alone most important thing) when tragedy takes place.

OR, all of the above happens with a young boy he decides to adopt, and become a saving father figure to (as he did to all the Robins in the comics), only he doesn't become a sidekick, and would only later in life take the mantle of Batman when Bruce is too old. But the tragic lover's relationship is better/makes more sense.

I mean, what Punisher is doing right now with Cole is cool, because I don't see Cole sticking around for much longer/is a temporary thing, and has the potential for the loving mutual-tragedy relationship that grounds Frank Castle from being nothing more than a the Punisher.

@joshmightbe Adam West was the darkest thing to happen to Batman. Also, the whole getting rid of a bomb bit was the point, haha

@nickzambuto I still think something like that should be a love-life aspect for Bruce, the "saving me from the darkness". It just doesn't make sense for a character like Batman to have a sidekick. Completely delegitimizes the "scary" nature of the hero Bruce wants to convey with with Batman persona. You can't really fear someone who's back-up is a young dude in a red and yellow getup... or who needs backup at his side period. Sure there have been situations where he needs back up (most recently the Night of Owls... he can't be everywhere at once), but in general... just doesn't fit.

@nickzambuto said:

@ElGUitarist said:

Am I the only one that thinks the character of Batman -a mysterious and dark knight of the night, a figure feared by the underworld, a character based on fear and darkness, a figure who made a Talon feel fear for the first time - would be diminished by having a side kick? Even more so... a kid sidekick?

It more fits a character like Caps, or Wolverine and Spidey if they were ever to have a real sidekick... but not characters like Batman or Punisher.

It just barely flies as acceptable in the comics; not at all in the cinema.

That's why we have the Nolan trilogy. Now that it's over, the Batman reboot is gonna need to do something new, and Robin is a good choice.

The reboot shouldn't be dark and gritty, again, Nolan's movies just ended.

@r3d_rob1n said:

Of course he should appear. As long as they are making Justice League in the realm of possibility, then it is not too far fetched to believe a teenage kid can help Batman take out some thugs

Edit: Just realized that a great way to skip a new origin movie would be to make the movie an origin of Robin. That way Batman would be familiar in Gotham, but the movie would seem like an appropriate beginning.

That is a great idea.

But dark and gritty is that Batman character...?

Nolan's trilogy is plausible. We should get a reboot that is more "fantastical" and stylistic (Like the Burton movies, but a lot less Tim Burton).

It isn't about being "dark and gritty", it's about doing what makes sense for the character and translate well to the cinema. The character of Batman makes little sense having a sidekick, whether it's in the comics or movies.

Well, Cyclops kinda turned into who he is, so Hank doesn't agree. But when he finds out Wolverine is running X-Force... it's like, It's Wolverine, it's hardly a surprise - he's always been that kind of character. Hank can't get as upset with that as he did with Cyclops.

So I do think he put it on the back burner considering all the shit that ensued afterwards to take up his time.

Storm would probably make a big stink about it. And by "stink", I mean to imply I agree with X-Force existing on a moral level. For that universe, and the state of the mutant population over the past 5-7 years, it is necessary.

Am I the only one that thinks the character of Batman -a mysterious and dark knight of the night, a figure feared by the underworld, a character based on fear and darkness, a figure who made a Talon feel fear for the first time - would be diminished by having a side kick? Even more so... a kid sidekick?

It more fits a character like Caps, or Wolverine and Spidey if they were ever to have a real sidekick... but not characters like Batman or Punisher.

It just barely flies as acceptable in the comics; not at all in the cinema.

@LuigiBat To your last paragraph:

Blake found the batcave because it was in the coordinates given to him by Bruce.

Remember, Blake was at the hearing of Bruce's will... then he gave his name to the woman (lol your name is Robin scene)... that was him picking up what Bruce left for him in his will. Bruce intended for Blake to become Batman. This was all planned out by Bruce

Blake also knows who Fox is (scene where they explain the decaying nuclear cells of the bomb to the special ops dudes), and Bruce may very well have given instructions on how Blake is to contact Fox, along with the instructions to enter the batcave. Fox also knows that Bruce is alive because the software patch for auto-pilot repair had Bruce's name on it. So, it all works out.