El_Nastro

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#1  Edited By El_Nastro

Whatever. Batman's abilities are poorly written.

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#2  Edited By El_Nastro

Cap. If it was a forensic mystery crime solving contest Bat's would win. But fighting is what Cap's all about. It's his specialty. That and there's no way a coddled silver-spoon rich kid with a butler could beat a Nazi-killing super-soldier from Brooklyn.

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#3  Edited By El_Nastro

Conan. There's lots of reasons for this, but I'll start with just one: Conan's never lost against any single opponent. Ever. BP has.

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#4  Edited By El_Nastro

DOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!

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#5  Edited By El_Nastro

Doom. He looks cooler, and has a cooler name. He's an Evil Genius AND an Evil Sorceror who lives in a Dracula-castle. Oh, and Doom has a gun.

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#6  Edited By El_Nastro

Doom & Mags. They both look cooler.

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#7  Edited By El_Nastro

@TheSandman 1) he cant shrug off flash bangs and tear gas by gritting his teeth because those arent mind control tricks, they target the eyes and throat =.= 2) Batman is a worldclass master of martial arts and ninjitsu, he has shown to be capable of dodging bullets which are faster than any sword swinging I'm sure. 3) Batman doesn't need to fight a dummy to win, he's fought and defeated numerous meta-humans who are "as clever as they are mean" I'm not trying to flare out at you and I respect your argument but batman is not outclassed, he knows every martial arts there is on earth and he's damn good well with them. 1. Eldritch Mind Control Sorcery isn't a "trick"...it's Sorcery. And Conan routinely shrugs off wounds and injuries that would kill any normal person. The idea that Batman could deal with someone like Conan with gadgetry is...well, I'll put it this way: Batman's gadgets would be just as effective on Conan as guns are on Batman. 2. Yes, Batman's one of the best hand-to-hand fighters in the DCU. Conan's the best fighter in the Hyborian Age. Batman's dodged bullets, huh? OK. But I've also seen Batman get punched...and bullets are slower than punches. What gives? Apparently it depends on who he's fighting, and in this case he wouldn't be fighting a nameless canon-fodder thug or C-list tights-wearing criminal. 3. And Batman's lost confrontations before, too. Conan never has. It comes down to the fact that Batman simply has nothing on Conan...Conan's just a deadlier character. Now, if this was a crime-solving contest, Batman would most definitely win. But were not talking about solving mysteries, we're talking about fighting. What exactly does Batman have on Conan? Strength? Speed? Skill? Experience? Agility? Reflexes? Cunning? Endurance? Stealth? Willpower? Nope. You might (might) be able to argue that they're evenly matched in some of those things, but the two differ in one very key way: Batman's career is very much framed around not killing. That's why he doesn't carry a gun. His gadgets tend to be non-lethal, and 95% of his victories end in an unconscious or restrained enemy. Conan, on the other hand is a death-machine...he's like Captain America, Wolverine, and the Punisher combined...Conan's probably just on the "super" side of "superhuman" (..."it would have killed any normal man", "strength, speed, and ferocity impossible for a civilized man"), he was literally born on the battlefield. Conan's a natural killer...Batman isn't.

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#8  Edited By El_Nastro

Conan easily. What techniqes exactly does Batman have that Conan's never seen, and how precisely would that help? Zaporovo knew techniques Conan never saw before, but it didn't help - it wouldn't help Batman either, for the exact same reasons. A well-timed punch, kick, elbow or knee? A devious lock? A tricky throw? It doesn't matter what sort of Esoteric Ninja 5-Point Palm Dim Mak Bat-Attack Batman thows. It's Batman who's outclassed here in terms of reflexes, speed, endurance, will, strength, and unerring natural fighting aptitude. How exactly is Batman supposed to land a fancy move without getting decapitated? He can't out-speed or overpower Conan. And he can't somehow trick Conan into providing an opening (see the above excerpt). Batman would be completely on the defensive here, it would be all he could do to defend himself for a few moments...while Batman's defending, dodging, analyizing, and waiting & searching for an opening that never presesnts itself, Conan kills him. "But the utility belt!", you say! Ok...what about it? Batman reaches for a batarang or something, Conan kills Batman while Batman's hand is down. But let's sat Bats gets something out. Whats he got in there that poses any real threat? Batman's stuff is non-lethal. What's he got....batarangs, tear gas, flash-bangs, sonic doodads, a kryptonite ring....against a blood-mad Conan, that stuff would work about as well as guns work on Batman. Flasbangs...tear-gas...we're talking about a guy who routinely shrugs off Blasphemous Sorcerous Mind Control Magic just by gritting his teeth and shrugging it off through sheer willpower...a guy who can sustain injuries, wounds, and blows that "would kill any normal man", ignore them and keep fighting anyway (healing factors are for sissies!). And Conan's no dummy, either. He's as clever as he is mean, so you can't say Batman's a better strategist. Conan's led everything from small bands to huge armies to victory. Batman's had his share of wins, but he's lost plenty of fights, too. Conan's never lost a fight to a single opponent. Batman's simply outclassed here.

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#9  Edited By El_Nastro

@TheSandman If you don't know much about Conan, a great place to start is "The Complete Chronicles Of Conan: Centenary Edition" ( http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Chronicles-Conan-Robert-Howard/dp/0575077662 ). It's a collection of all the original Howard stories and fragments, plus maps, a complete history of the background setting, and profiles on some of the various peoples and cultures of the Hyborian Age. For $30.00 it's an awesome book. Anyway... There's nothing any of these characters bring that Conan hasn't been up against at one time or another. He's killed highly skilled practitioners of martial arts before, he kills every sorcerer he runs into, and murdered Unspeakable Demon Horrors From Beyond Time. Conan might as well be superhuman...and the whole "martial arts mastery thing" just doesnt carry too much weight in this instance. Conan's entire life is about fighting, and he's travelled the world. He's killed master swordsmen and fencers from the west, and eastern masters of magical fighting systems, and and all sorts of things that effectively qualify as "superhuman". I just can't picture any of those characters pulling off some fancy move and Conan being caught off guard and surprised by it. His reflexes, instincts, skill, experience, and natural fighting-aptitude are too much. Couple that with nigh-superhuman strength, speed, endurance, and remorseless viciousness (not to mention a lethal weapon) and none of these characters stand much of a chance. Conan's like Captain America, Wolverine, and the Punisher combined.

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#10  Edited By El_Nastro

Conan clears. For one, he's never been defeated by a single opponent. Ever. Not once. And Conan fights trained warriors (as opposed to street thugs), sorcerers, demons, and Eldritch Things From Beyond The Outer Dark. All those other characters have been beaten at one time or another. It literally takes dozens of armed, trained warriors to take Conan down, and he doesn't even need super-healing, adamantium bones, a utility belt-of-holding, a magic sword, a super-shield, or super-steroids to be that bada$$. We're talking about a huge guy who's as strong as any human could ever be, faster than Bruce Lee on 4 pots of coffee, has the natural fighting and killing instinct of a wild animal, and who was literally raised on warfare. Conan kills immediately and instinctively without any hesitation or second-guessing. Rd 1 - We don't even need to talk about this one. Rd. 2 - That guy's just another Pict for Conan. Rd. 3 - Lesse....a guy who was literally born on the battlefield who's been fighting with swords and axes his entire life vs. a steroid-monster with an axe. Cimmerian cuts his arm off before Bane can even blink. Rd 4 - Not much the Kingpin could do. Swords are a lot more instantaneously fatal than billy clubs. Rd 5 - So tired of overrated Wolverine. Yes, Wolvie has the whole seething Clint Eastwood thing goin' on, and that makes him cool, and I get that the whole retractable claws-thing is ninja-kewl and all that, but at the end of the day, he's just a short guy with knives. That's it. Huge barbarian warrior with sword beats short guy with knives. Period. Rd. 6 - See previous. Rd. 7 - Oh boy a swordfight! Conan's not only never lost a fight, but he sure as heck never lost a swordfight. Rd. 8 - Cap is the only one on the list that would make Conan really work for it. They're probably very close in terms of size, strength, speed, and endurance. BUT...it's the fact that unlike Cap, Conan doesn't hesitate to kill. He's like a hungry, angry predator. Cap would have to work his way up to Conan's level of intensity and viciousness, but Conan's ready to spill an enemy's guts immediately. Also, there's no doubt Conan has way more experience killing people armed with shields than Cap does fighting murderous warriors with swords. Conan then beds all their girlfriends.