El_Nastro

What, EXACTLY can Batman do? Don't just say "prep". It doesn't mean anything. Batman used to be kind of cool, but his fans just ruin him for me. Could he beat Cyke in a fisfight? Batman's probably a better fighter, but Cyke can blast him. Chuck Liddell's a better fighter than me, but if I have a 45 in the ring with Chuck, Chuck's dead. Cyke's blast is way more powerful than a 45. And no, Bats couldn't dodge Cyke's energy blast. That's dumb. I could see Bats possibly sneaking up on Cyke and ko'ing him with a batarang or something, provided Cyke didn't just start indiscriminately blasting anything and everything Bats could be hiding behind. I give it a 50/50. Batman's lame.

Does anyone in the DCU have the Ultimate Nullifier? Can they get it? If so, then no problem. If not, Galactus devours unopposed.

Somebody mentioned Kenneth Connell!!!!! Star Brand was, for the first 10 issues (after that it went to hell) one of my FAVORITE comics of ALL TIME. (I'm talking about the 80's comic here) I loved the concept. Excellently written characters, too. Was Ken Connell a douchebag? Of course, but for the first 10 issues anyway, it was the most compellingly realistic comic book of all time, at least in terms of, "If a real guy actually got super powers, what would happen?" I always thought Star Brand would make a great TV show. Ignore everything after around issue # 10 though...really went off the rails after that. I still have the entire Star Brand run in my closet. So it should come as no surprise that I have to go with Ken. Does he know what he's doing? Well...he knows he's trying to kill this other dude, and HE HAS THE STAR BRAND.

@entropy_aegis said:

@Erik said:

@El_Nastro said:

Just had a thought:

Imagine if Shang had had a long-running title, and the same market-driven forces responsible for the obnoxious Power-Creep we've seen in Batman & Wolverine had happened with Shang. Right now there'd be people seriously talking about "Shang Chi vs. Darkseid" or something.

Having a title that ran for 125 issues is not a bad run. It is more than a lot of titles get.

I find it hilarious how he thinks more issues=Shang Chi suddenly becoming cosmic level.And this guy has a problem with Batman being a master everything.

I didn't say Power Creep isn't stupid. It is. Just making a point about market-driven Power Creep, and how all these claims about Batman being a master of everything are dumb.

Batman was originally conceived as a street-level pulp-style crimefighter like the Shadow. But when they decided to put him in a larger universe occupied with superhumans, and since he's a fan-favorite, writers have to find a way to make him keep up with characters like Superman and win against super-powered enemies he was never originally intended to go up against, even when it doesn't make any sense.

We see the same thing with Wolverine. When he started out, he was a tough, scrappy, street-level mountain man. Back in the 80's, when the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe came out, his strength level was described as "normal strength for a person his height and weight who engages in regular exercise". And he had about seven pounds of adamantium in his skeleton. Now he has super-strength, something like 80 pounds of adamantium, his claws might as well be lightsabers, and his healing power is stupidly powerful.

125 issues for Shang Chi isn't a whole lot compared just about every other major comic character out there. People on these forums place a whole lot of importance on "feats", and more issues necessarily equals a larger number of increasingly impressive feats. You have to top the reader's expectations, after all. That's why Batman & Wolverine are what they are today - Power Creep. Does it really make any sense that Wolverine could beat the Silver Surfer? Of course not. But it happened.

The best example of what I'm talking about: Lobo vs Wolverine in that crossover form the 90's. The winners were voted for by the fans. Does anyone think that it made any sense for Wolverine to beat Lobo, if you think about the characters as they were originally conceived? Of course not. Everyone on these forums knows that the result of that confrontation was because Wolverine was more popular, and people voted based on popularity. But it was totally inconsistent with the concept of both characters. It was stupid.

And in the same way, the idea that Batman, ostensibly a normal human, could master h2h fighting to the same level as Shang Chi, when Batman's a jack-of-all trades while fighting is Shang Chi's specialty, is the same thing. It's market-driven, popularity-driven Power Creep stupidity that's inconsistent with the concept of both characters.

Just had a thought:

Imagine if Shang had had a long-running title, and the same market-driven forces responsible for the obnoxious Power-Creep we've seen in Batman & Wolverine had happened with Shang. Right now there'd be people seriously talking about "Shang Chi vs. Darkseid" or something.

@god_spawn said:

A lot of Shang-Chi's greatness is word of mouth and hyperbole. When faced against Marvel's top tier fighters he doesn't have much going for him. He got owned by Wolverine relatively quickly, I fail to see how against Batman wouldn't be very similar to that encounter.

I'll concede that. I think a lot of that can be chalked up to poor writing and Marvel writers failing to recognize the potential for Shang Chi's coolness. He hasn't ever had a long-running title. But he should. The concept of the character is awesome - the Marvel Universe's version of Bruce Lee from Enter The Dragon - The Master Of Kung Fu. Great concept, I just wish Marvel would give him a permanent title and really show us what a great character he could be. I'd love to write some Shang Chi stories - tons of untapped potential.

Cap & DD. It'd be a cool fight, but Cap & DD would, without question, ultimately leave their enemies broken and bloody.

@WaveMotionCannon said:

@Kempororyusenjin

Nolan's Batman would still beat this phony chump. Bruce Lee has never fought in a tournamet or Kumite, There is no record of him ever being in a real fight outside of hearsay.

Neither has Nolan's Batman.

Yup. That's true. Did Baleman ever fight in a sanctioned duel of any kind? I don't remember Baleman in "The Cage" or anything like that...just training without cameras or referees or beating up bad guys without cameras or referees.

At this point, I hate that line of reasoning. "HE NEVER FOUGHT ON RECORD! FAKE!"

I can understand how the attitude developed...years and years ago, there was a time when I might have said something similar. It's because in the martial arts world there are a lot of people who make all sorts of claims to Badassery, but they're just fat pukes with a McDojo at the mall. They're liars out for a quick buck. I get that. I truly do. And records of any sort serve as some sort of assurance that the person you're paying to teach you or your kid is what they say they are.

But at this point it's out of control. Thanks internet. Once again you've ruined peoples capability for nuance and context.

While it's true that there are fakes out there, that does NOT mean that if you don't have a "record" that you're a fake. It might just mean you have no interest in trophies. I'm a martial artist. In fact, I do Wing Chun just like Bruce Lee. I spar all the time. It can get pretty wild sometimes. I've been hurt, and I've hurt others. I'm not going to say that I'm a "badass", but I definitely know people who are. and none of us has ever fought in a tournament or Kumite. Or the "The Cage" - we just have no interest in any of that. Lots of real martial artists and authentically hard badass people just want to practice, have fun, and be better today than yesterday.

@robertloucksjr said:

I don't know about his IQ, but mine is at least TWO raisins AND they are chocolate covered.

OK, but what size are your feets?

Might sound like I've been doggin' on Mr. Lee, but I do like him. He's a major reason why I got into Wing Chun in the first place, and Wing Chun's my favorite thing to do.

Lee was good at what he knew, and he was fast. Dig this video, especially starting at 2:03. I know all those moves, and I can do them, but to do them ALL in 1.5 seconds? I can't do that....

...yet.

: )