Ebbm

@minigunman123 said:

@Ebbm: I'm appreciating your calmer tone in this post, and perhaps there is a biological component. Something I've just started thinking over is, what if people may be attracted to others of the same sex but Christianity teaches us to go against it and always be with someone of the opposite sex? Hmm. Curious. A lot of the Bible DOES teach us to go against what's natural in favor of what's "right". Perhaps this is an extension of it?

I'm sorry for acting like a d*ck to you, it was uncalled for. I just get heated up about these things because they effect me very personally.

@Static Shock said:

@Ebbm: I also saw your original post, as well. Don't think you can insult people and tell me not to get involved. That's not going to work.

That was before I saw you were a moderator. I deleted once I realized you weren't just some random person getting involved. People say worse stuff on here all the time and never get reprimanded by a moderator.

@Static Shock said:

@Ebbm said:

What did I post that was so bad that you needed to respond?

I didn't think calling someone dumber than a bag of hammers and antagonizing the same person by telling them to 'run and tell mommy' was necessary.

People say worse on here all the time, but your right that was dumb and I apologize for that.

@Static Shock said:

@Ebbm: You need to chill. Seriously.

What did I post that was so bad that you needed to respond?

@minigunman123 said:

@Ebbm: Not really, it's basically just "what if" and I abolish the thoughts immediately. Name me someone who isn't curious about what something is like that they've never tried, nor are they ever going to try. I also wonder what it's like to get shot, be a superhero, and scream at my parents. Curiosity killed the maladjusted teenager.

Curiosity doesn't mean the same thing as sexual attraction. You could never have chosen to be gay no matter how much you believe your curiosity could lead you down that path. The majority of research shows that sexual orientation, at least in men, is an in-born characteristic. Studies have shown that if one identical twin is gay the other has a 50% chance, its only 20% in fraternal. This indicates a genetic component. Scientists have shown that there is a difference in the size of different parts of straight and gay men. Also the more older brothers you have, the more likely you are to be gay. Research indicates a mix of genetic and other biological factors, you won't find many who agree with you that every person chooses their sexual orientation.

@minigunman123 said:

EDIT: One more thing, I DID choose to be heterosexual, because although stimuli for me turning gay exist or could be found in my life and I have wondered what it was like, I am actually not willing to go down that road. I'm attracted to women and I'm not going to change that. Don't you dare tell me it isn't a choice.

So you have experienced same sex attraction?

@minigunman123 said:

@Ebbm, I also flagged your posts which were insulting to me, because there was no reason for it. Enjoy being investigated, I don't know if anything will happen or not, but you're just flaming me for my beliefs.

haha run and tell mommy because I called you out on your ignorance.

@minigunman123 said:

Would you feel better if I said I believe I should stone you? I don't believe that. Maybe you shouldn't be so angry with me. People aren't born gay, which is the entire assertion that's been made. People choose to react to things by becoming gay. You're not going to change what I believe by flaming me out instead of calmly reminding me of some facts I may have missed. News flash, there are tons of posters and tons of posts in this thread, I can't remember everything from all of them. I thought I responded to your post. If I didn't, you can be nice about informing me that I did not. So far k4tz is the only person I can say I actually respect MORE for his participation in this thread.

I never said anything close to saying you should be stoned, what are you talking about. You can believe whatever you want to believe, its just you don't have any personal experience or scientific evidence to back you up. My beliefs do, I even gave you evidence, you chose to ignore it by cherry picking the heading of an article you didn't even. You're only a little better than a troll, if you want to have an actual debate about these issues you should come with actual proof and more tact. You're basically calling millions of people liars with mental disorders as a result of abuse and rape. Forgive me if I don't give a crap that you're feelings were hurt because of this.

@minigunman123 said:

@Ebbm said:

@minigunman123 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@minigunman123 said:

Why do people think you're born gay? I don't want "I just feel that way" or "they say so"

You know them gays. They meet up in packs every saturday to keep committing to the lie.

Oh wait.

No, that's stupid.

I did not suggest they're trying to decieve anyone, I merely don't think they have the facts. If you're born a certain way, it can be proved or at least evidence can be provided genetically or biologically. I think it's a decision that happens after an event, or events, that lead you to desire this lifestyle; many women I've met who are lesbians became lesbian some time after or directly following a rape incident. And by "many", I mean "more than 2", but the number is unclear because I didn't stay in close contact with them and eventually forgot some of them. Not because they were gay, we just didn't keep in touch. One of them I actually tried but she kinda disappeared on me.

First off you are incredibly offensive and ignorant. In a previous post you tell Stormultt not to present anecdotal evidence but you just used it here. Secondly, the majority of actual scientists and researchers believe sexual orientation is NOT a choice.

A quote from the APA about ex-gay "therapy":

"The participants in this body of research continued to experience same-sex attractions following SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] and did not report significant change to other-sex attractions that could be empirically validated, though some showed lessened physiological arousal to all sexual stimuli. Compelling evidence of decreased same-sex sexual behavior and of engagement in sexual behavior with the other sex was rare. Few studies provided strong evidence that any changes produced in laboratory conditions translated to daily life. Thus, the results of scientifically valid research indicate that it is unlikely that individuals will be able to reduce same-sex attractions or increase other-sex sexual attractions through SOCE"

It goes on to say that ex-gay "therapy" can actually cause harm. It also says that a person's sexual orientation is determined by a combination of environmental and genetic factors, for example an environmental factor is hormones a fetus is subjected to in the womb. It states that it is NOT affected by who you have sex with or how your parents raised you.

About the lesbians you know who "became" lesbians after being raped, give me proof. You're demanding proof from everyone else, give us proof that these women did not always have a sexual attraction to women, or that they chose to date women instead of men because they became incapable of relationships with men after being raped.

And now I'm more convinced than ever in regards to the APA. There is apparently no gay gene according to them.

http://open.salon.com/blog/djohn/2009/05/12/american_psychological_association_no_gay_gene

I never said there was, like I stated it is a combination of genetic and environmnetal factors, they state it has nothing to do with how you're raised or who you have sex with. Maybe actually read what I post before spewing out your word vomit.

@minigunman123 said:

Yeah, I've made up my mind about it, but I'm still trying to learn the reasoning behind the notion or idea that being homosexual is something you're born with. I DO think it's absolutely possible you're born with more susceptibility to wanting to be homosexual, but everything you do in life is a choice. If you think I'm calling it a BAD choice rather than just a choice, that's your beef. I'm still learning about the idea you all adhere to though, which is more than what most people should do, so I'm expecting nobody to get angry with me over this.

If the fact I disagree with the idea gets you angry, well, take a moment to ask yourself WHY you're angry with me, specifically what makes you mad at me, and put it in nice words, not calling me a jerk, or a$$, but just telling me like "I disagree with... because..." or if you're really upset, "you made me upset/angry/whatever when you said... because...".

I DID NOT WANT TO BE GAY. I went through years of denial, depression and alienation for it. You are the one that is insulting, posting all this bullsh*t you just decided out of thin air and trying to put it on equal footing with actual research and my own personal experience. You didn't choose to be straight anymore than I chose to be gay, you're dumber than a bag of hammers if you think that is the case.

@minigunman123 said:

@Ebbm said:

@minigunman123 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@minigunman123 said:

Why do people think you're born gay? I don't want "I just feel that way" or "they say so"

You know them gays. They meet up in packs every saturday to keep committing to the lie.

Oh wait.

No, that's stupid.

I did not suggest they're trying to decieve anyone, I merely don't think they have the facts. If you're born a certain way, it can be proved or at least evidence can be provided genetically or biologically. I think it's a decision that happens after an event, or events, that lead you to desire this lifestyle; many women I've met who are lesbians became lesbian some time after or directly following a rape incident. And by "many", I mean "more than 2", but the number is unclear because I didn't stay in close contact with them and eventually forgot some of them. Not because they were gay, we just didn't keep in touch. One of them I actually tried but she kinda disappeared on me.

First off you are incredibly offensive and ignorant. In a previous post you tell Stormultt not to present anecdotal evidence but you just used it here. Secondly, the majority of actual scientists and researchers believe sexual orientation is NOT a choice.

A quote from the APA about ex-gay "therapy":

"The participants in this body of research continued to experience same-sex attractions following SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] and did not report significant change to other-sex attractions that could be empirically validated, though some showed lessened physiological arousal to all sexual stimuli. Compelling evidence of decreased same-sex sexual behavior and of engagement in sexual behavior with the other sex was rare. Few studies provided strong evidence that any changes produced in laboratory conditions translated to daily life. Thus, the results of scientifically valid research indicate that it is unlikely that individuals will be able to reduce same-sex attractions or increase other-sex sexual attractions through SOCE"

It goes on to say that ex-gay "therapy" can actually cause harm. It also says that a person's sexual orientation is determined by a combination of environmental and genetic factors, for example an environmental factor is hormones a fetus is subjected to in the womb. It states that it is NOT affected by who you have sex with or how your parents raised you.

About the lesbians you know who "became" lesbians after being raped, give me proof. You're demanding proof from everyone else, give us proof that these women did not always have a sexual attraction to women, or that they chose to date women instead of men because they became incapable of relationships with men after being raped.

I don't know why you THINK I'm being offensive, I'm the one trying to get the knowledge here, so don't be an ass and say I'm being offensive. I'm trying to explain what I have experienced, and trying to have people who think otherwise explain their viewpoints. You did so a bit, but you don't need to be a jerk about it.

As for proof about the lesbians I've met, we only have their word, which isn't proof, it's just the only experience I've personally come across; I've never met a gay person who says they're just born that way, most of them have told me it happened over time, possibly due to a traumatic event, or some other factor, other than being born a certain way. Certainly you don't believe people are born a certain way and have no choice in the matter? If that were true, why try to rehabilitate criminals? I'll look up the evidence you have provided, which I thank you for, but I'm not convinced yet.

If other people are going to throw empty insults, I'm going to disregard their comment. Keep that in mind. You win nothing by throwing childish insults to someone who's trying to understand all the different perspectives on a topic.

Instead of harassing people and not taking their word for it that they didn't choose to be gay you could have googled all of the info I posted. Again, all you provide is anecdotal evidence which, according to you, means nothing. The fact that you still ignore that being gay is not a choice even after providing you with the evidence you demanded makes you even more offensive and ignorant. You don't know what you're talking about and it shows, you have a biased opinion that's been proven wrong by science. I didn't throw childish insults, you're being offensive and willfully ignorant and I called you out on it.